New gear vs. used gear

[regulator 0]

Ok I am now looking at getting a rig of my own this year. I am now doing my research and honestly I'd like to forego the used gear and go ahead and buy a new rig. I want a infinity container, a Sabre2 170 main and a PD reserve with a Cypres 2. I know how much it'll cost and I'll let you in on why I want a new rig. I plan on jumping this year quite a bit and I've been jumping a 190 since I was on student status. I only plan on downsizing one size (nothing dramatic) And once I start jumping the 170 I plan on using that rig for several years. I don't plan on downsizing the 170 for at least 2 to 3 years until I am extremely proficient at the Sabre2 170. I want to use the gear for a long time. ( I plan on jumping til I'm either dead or cant do it anymore) I want a new rig because I plan on keeping it for a long time, and used gear could have unforseen issues, and the resale value wouldnt be nearly as much for a newer rig. Besides, it's a pain in the butt to go on the forums and research a used rig, and then have the money ready to buy then. I would rather buy a new rig and get it the way I want it rather than getting what someone else has handed down per say. The only drawback that I know of is that packing a new rig can suck ass. Please give me any input as to the path I am taking, and if I'm being stupid about it or would a new rig work. I have never owned a new or used rig as of yet. I have my A license and want to stop renting gear ASAP.

Thanks for your advice in advance.

Paul

[skybytch 259]

Assuming that you've spoken with your instructors regarding canopy sizing (ie you and they are confident that you'll be able to safely land that 170 in a less than ideal off dz location or if someone cuts you off on final on your first jump on it) and you've jumped a Sabre 2 in the past (so you know that you like how it flies and flares), it looks to me like you've done your research well.

If you want and can afford new gear, you should get new gear. You'll have no problem selling that main when you're ready to downsize.

[wmw999 2,149]

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honestly I'd like to forego the used gear and go ahead and buy a new rig.

Then do it. It's your money.

Just so you know, I bought my used gear 6 years ago, and am currently on the third canopy in that container (2 sizes). I've put about 800 jumps on it, and it looks just fine.

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used gear could have unforseen issues, and the resale value wouldnt be nearly as much for a newer rig.

Unforseen issues are addressed by learning enough about gear to give a rigger enough information to help you inspect it before making the final buy decision. And if you're going to jump it for several years, the resale value is going to be low regardless.

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Besides, it's a pain in the butt to go on the forums and research a used rig

That can be a perfectly valid reason for you. It's your money, and you decide how much the pain is worth.

Do what you want. I'm not sure if you're looking for acclamation that you're making the best possible decision, and that any idiot would make the same one. If so, well, ain't gonna happen. You're making a decision for you, and regardless, if it turns out not to have been the best one, people will say "I told you so."

Make a list of plusses and minuses for new and used, and consider them carefully, and make your decision.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[davelepka 4]

Here's my take - first you're making plans regarding your downsizing that span out for the next several years. During this time, you'll make, let's say, a few hundred jumps, and you're making plans today when you have 27 jumps as to what you will or will not want at that time.

You are right as far as the packing goes. A brand new canopy is a bitch to pack. Because of this, you'll want to lean toward the larger size container for a 170, which would wok today, but limit your downsizing later. Again, keep in mind that you don't really know what you're going to want 100 or 200 jumps down the road.

You jump at a big DZ, which I'm sure has an on-site rigger. Take advatage of this, and ask for some help in buying your gear. Look around the classifieds, and forward links to the rigger for their opinion. Follow that up with having the gear shipped to the rigger for an inspection before you buy.

To make it easier on you, buy a new Cypres2, as this will saty with you from rig to rig. Buy a new PD reserve, as they hold their resale value, and if you do want to buy a smaller contianer later on, you'll be able to sell it for a good portion of what you bought it for. Buying those two things new will save you some hassle for sure.

But really, in the end, you can save yourself thousands buying used, and you can use the next year or so learning about gear, the different models and features, test jump a few things, and generally get a much better idea of what is going to work the best for you in the longer term.

Additionally, if you take good care of your stuff, and make smart purchases this round, you'll be able to sell your stuff for close to what you paid for it. It's like a free starter rig to jump while you develop yourself as a skydiver.

[BUBLHED 0]

"I only plan on downsizing one size (nothing dramatic) And once I start jumping the 170 I plan on using that rig for several years. I don't plan on downsizing the 170 for at least 2 to 3 years until I am extremely proficient at the Sabre2 170."

Famous last words. That is very easy to say now but you may feel very different at 150 jumps or so.

"used gear could have unforseen issues, and the resale value wouldnt be nearly as much for a newer rig."

Have it inspected by a good rigger to avoid unforseen issues, Resale is much higher if you buy used. You can jump a used rig for a year or two and sell it for almost what you paid for it (I did and sold for exactly what I paid) That would be virtually impossible on new gear

Yes a new rig would work great, but so will a used rig. The smart thing is to buy used, get some more experience, then you'll be able to make a much more informed decision. I'd bet that every single one of us has changed there meaning of what the perfect gear is a thousand times as our own personal experience grows.

INHO save some money get a good used rig now, start saving for new and in a year or two order what you want then. After a couple of hundred jumps.

ATTACK LIFE ! IT'S GOING TO KILL YOU ANYWAY!!!!

[beowulf 1]

Some people actually do hold on to a bigger canopy for several years.

After about 100 jumps I bought all new gear. A Sabre 2 150, Javelin Odys, PDR143. Put over 800 jumps on that Sabre 2 before I downsized to a Sabre 2 135.

[likestojump 3]

If you can afford all new gear, and the learning curve/frustration of packing a new canopy, and the 170 is a safe choice for you - you will be very happy. That is, until the first few times you PLF and get your new shiny rig all dirtied up :)

My only suggestions is lots and lots of Scotchguard for complete happiness :)

[regulator 0]

At my DZ I have been jumping a Sabre2 190 since my 10th jump. And since it will be several months before I get my new rig I will be still jumping that same rented 190 until the new rig comes in. I am only wanting to go down 1 size because I plan on using that 170 for at least a few hundred jumps.

[BUBLHED 0]

"Some people actually do hold on to a bigger canopy for several years."

True I can't argue that as I stayed at the same size for a long time. In my second rig. However I think that more often than not that isn't the case. i also feel that downsizing at the smaller sizes is slower. You keeping a 150 might be differant than the OP keeping a 170. He may very well want to be on a 150 in a relatively short time. He may not.

If you can afford it great! For me it wouldn't have been wise. I also got that first used rig pretty friggin dirty. I would have hated to do that to my shiny new Vector. Just starting out I would spend all my money gaining experience. The more often you do something the quicker the learning curve and I would chose to stay in the air. But then again I've never had alot of cash to do what I've wanted.

OP get what you want and what's safe for you no matter what any of us think.

Just my opinion YMV

ATTACK LIFE ! IT'S GOING TO KILL YOU ANYWAY!!!!

[councilman24 36]

If you want to stop renting ASAP you'd better find a used rig. Otherwise you'll be renting that rig most of this season waiting for you custom gear. And both new, custom rigs I've purchased in my 30 year career weren't made as ordered or had other issues. One I lived with and one had to get completely rebuilt. Your not guarenteed to not have issues with new gear.

Not making the investment in new gear now will let you learn more about various rigs and canopies, be able to borrow or rent various demo gear to try out and better know what you really want.

At our small DZ several rigs went through several newbies as they gained experience.

You SHOULD buy a new rig at some point, just for the luxury of it. But I don't recommend it now. If you've got the extra $3000 and it won't affect how much your going to jump or any other part of your life style, spend it.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[regulator 0]

Ok so I have been thinking and even though I still want a new container AAD and reserve, I think purchasing a used Sabre2 170 main would work. That way I can get a container that will fit both a 150 and a 170. I can downsize later and it shouldn't be nearly as hectic to pack. (and a little cheaper.) In my opinion this seems like the best path for me to take.

[skybytch 259]

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That way I can get a container that will fit both a 150 and a 170.

? Used canopies don't pack smaller than new ones. They're just easier to control during packing because the fabric isn't as slippery.

If you intend to jump a 170, buy a container built to fit a 170. You'll be able to safely put a 150 or possibly even a 135 into it later. Unless you truly enjoy packing, you won't enjoy stuffing 170 sq ft of slippery snot (even if it is used slippery snot) into a space designed to hold 150 sq ft of slippery snot. Trust me on this one... I put over 300 jumps on a 170 in an Infinity built for a 150, packing it was not fun.

[regulator 0]

Yeah that makes sense. Perhaps I should have chosen my words better. I know that I will find a container made for a 170 for sure. Thanks for your help.

Oh and I usually just wipe my snot on my pantsleg.

Yes thats gross, but hey I'm from the country!

[Skydivesg 6]

For the past 20 years, I have always bought a deployment bag that is one size bigger than my main.
It makes it so much easier to get your canopy in the bag.

Now, I know most people on here will say "that's foolish" and "that's dangerous" and "that could cause a malfunction" and on and on.

Believe me I've heard it all.

Malfunctions in the last 4000 jumps (knock, knock, knock) = zero.

I will admit, I am one of those old f**ckers to whom you may not want to listen.

For the rest of you, flame away if you care to.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[BUBLHED 0]

Don't see a problem with that as long as your line stows are correct. Until they are released bag size shouldn't matter. (within reason) after they are released it's coming out of the bag anyway.

OP your plan sounds reasonable. You could also try to find a used PD reserve. Have it inspected but not very likely a problem if there weren't too many deployments on it.
A 4 year old cypress isn't a bad way to go also.

Just thinking out loud get what you want!!!

ATTACK LIFE ! IT'S GOING TO KILL YOU ANYWAY!!!!

[regulator 0]

Opinions are like ass***** everyone has one. Now on to your comment. I know I dont know squat when it comes to jumping, but could you fill me in on how a one size higher d-bag could possibly cause a mal? I use these forums to use MORE THAN ONE opinion and culminate them to guide me. And I could use this tidbit, if it was 'marginal' that it could cause a mal. However, if its like a 25% chance or higher that I could get a baglock...I'll pass. Now I know that you can't give numbers when making references to something like this, but I do know someone that jumped at my DZ that passed away from a baglock mal. That being said he pulled WAY too low to accomidate for his mal and by the time he executed his EP's. It was almost virtually too late. I know that I'm rambling, but two types of mal's that scare the shit out of me are horseshoe's and baglocks. I know the horseshoe wouldn't come into play for this but if a slightly larger d-bag would then I'll pass. However, I don't know which is why I am asking you to explain me the difference.

Thanks for your input! I appreciate it.

Paul

[regulator 0]

Umm...What is an OP? is that like calling me a whuffo or something for buying new gear?

[brucet7 0]

Just one thought from a low number jumper who bought used gear this year. Different equipment and low jump numbers make for lots of PLF and other less than stellar landings.

I have already roughed up my container a bit making some rolling landings. It is easier the deal with personally since it already had love marks on it.

POPS #10623; SOS #1672

[hookitt 0]

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Now, I know most people on here will say "that's foolish" and "that's dangerous" and "that could cause a malfunction" and on and on

Most don't say that actually. What's to flame? It's a bag, if it goes into and out of the container comfortably, then there's no issue with it at all. The bag on my old infinity is small, what a pain in the ass. (that was my fault, I ordered a rig believing a different pack volume). A slightly larger bag is a much better deal in that case.

regulator, as far as new vs used. If you can find a decent used set up that fits you pretty well. Save up for a new rig later on.

The advice about making canopy choices now for the next few years is a good one. Your choices will most likely change rapidly. 170 is a good size to find used. Besides the classifieds, there are a few people on this forum you can trust to help you out.

Bonnie gravitygirl is a great person to deal with. She is one the most gear educated people with real life experience as a well rounded skydiver.

Likestojump usually has a lot of good equipment as well. He's easy to deal with too.

OP means original poster... f***ing acronyms.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[monkycndo 0]

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OP means original poster... f***ing acronyms.

Hey, at least it wasn't a TLA.

*which is a TLA in itself*

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[hookitt 0]

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Opinions are ....l

Yes they are but calm yourself

One size larger bag is fine. Often unnecessary unless the manufacturer has an unrealistic view on real life sizing. Yes it STILL happens after all these years.

If you know why the person had a baglock, you wouldn't do what caused it. They're not easy to get and often caused by unstable deployments rather than having anything to do with line stows are bag size.

What matters for a bag is the canopy fits in it and then into the container.. If you look around, you'll find that some are super tight fit while others are not.

The locking stows need to stay shut through line stretch and that's it. Keeping it shut is simple.

Don't read too much into it. My opinion is still what I wrote above. If you can afford the new stuff then by all means but you are likely to find good equipment used, in the sizes you are looking for.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[hookitt 0]

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Quote

OP means original poster... f***ing acronyms.

Hey, at least it wasn't a TLA.

*which is a TLA in itself*

Educate me... I come up with the following and more.

Terminate and Leave Activated
Termination Liability Agreement
Territorial Local Authorities (New Zealand)
Texas Library Association
The Lawrence Arms (band)
The Lost Age (game)
Theater Lead Agent (US DoD)
Theater of the Living Arts (Philadelphia, PA)
Thin Layer Activation
Three Letter Abbreviation

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[regulator 0]

about the opinions thing...I was actually doing that so that you could post your opinion and if anyone was to flame you to get off your back. It just sounded like I was ragging on you...instead I wanted to let it be known that on this post all ideas are appreciated!

PK

[erdnarob 1]

As you contemplate the idea to get an used gear showing your concern about money spending there is 3 things you should consider:

1) you don't need 2-3 years to go from a 190 ZP canopy to a 170 unless you only make 5 jumps a year.
2) choosing a Vigil II will give you more for your money (no scheduled costly maintenance and batteries good for 7 years or 1000 jumps +)
3) A Sabre 2 is the best you can get (check with canopies review here on dropzone.com)

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[BUBLHED 0]

Original Poster

If you are scared of a horseshoe mal then watch Brian Germains Pilot-chute packing video on you tube. It may not prevent one but it possibly could help clear one in process. Thereby breaking the chain that causes one in the first place.

Yes any high speed mal scares me alittle also. practice your EPs and stay aware anytime you are anywhere near this sport.

ATTACK LIFE ! IT'S GOING TO KILL YOU ANYWAY!!!!