Why don't people listen to doctors?

[grue 1]

Seems like every time I go see one of those M.D. people, they inform me they wanna stick a knife in me and fix something. Then again, maybe I should stop breaking myself. You know something's off when your annual injury summary in skydiving is empty, but the soccer and hockey columns are not.

cavete terrae.

[Elisha 1]

Yeah, softball injuries happen a lot - and for such little exertion!

[grue 1]

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Yeah, softball injuries happen a lot - and for such little exertion!

I squatted down to pick up my mobile phone in my doctor's office when I dropped it and it slid under a chair... my knees and ankles all went "POW!", and he gave me this look like "ooooooh MONEY!"

I've gotta stop with the contact sports, but they're so bloody FUN!

cavete terrae.

[Lindsey 0]

When I'm sick, I usually take 2 aspirin (or some such mask for symptoms) and wait for the illness to pass. If you're healthy, and the illness is minor, that's usually good advice. Try giving that advice to someone coming to you to give them something to make them well. Usually there's something you can give that will make them well a little sooner, and that usually makes folks happy. I always tell people that I can give them x medicine and it might help symptoms to resolve sooner, but if they just ride it out, they'll also get better. People WANT medicine. Some people want to complain that we prescribe too much medicine. What's a doc to do? I tell people what kinds of side effects to expect, what benefits to expect, and what ot expect if they don't take medicine. If I know of alternatives (like gargling salt water) that will also help, then I offer that too. People usually WANT the medicine.... Insurance pays.... Costs rise.

BUT then take someone with diabetes, hypertension, and things that will REALLY make their lives crappy. Give them medicines that they really, really NEED. They won't take it half the time. Blows me away. But I don't know why, except that on antihypertensives you often can't get it up.....

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[susanjumps 0]

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While the last two doctors I saw had no problems prescribing opiods neither suggested combining acetaminophen with an NSAID although this is common practice.

Wow - and honestly, I could be REALLY be wrong about this - but I think that is the basic formula for Excedrin.

Erleichda!

"I just wasn't myself today," Gupta commented. "I wasn't any self today. I was an egoless particle of the universal no-soul."

[Trae 1]

in rep 2"I just don't get it! "

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The 2nd last time I went to a doctor the guy tried to tell me that it was doctors that brought life to this planet. (what happened to good ol women I thought out loud?) This was after going there because I thought I may have swallowed some broken glass and was worried about some pains in my tummy.

He put his hands over my stomach and told me I was probably imagining it.

I left and got another opinion and this doc ignored my questions and wrote out a refferal to a pschiatrist.

I'm left still wondering if I swallowed any glass or not.

I'm working up the courage to go and see another doctor ..but who knows what he's going to tell me.
Bit scared he might recommend an amputation or something.

You don't get it and neither do I.

[riddler 0]

What people don't realize is that doctors are just human beings. Well-trained human beings, but subject to the same prejudices and misinformation that the rest of us are. That's not to say I wouldn't trust a doctor's opinion - I would trust his/her opinion of my body more than I would trust some homeless person living on the street. But I trust my own opinion of my body more than anyone else's.

I have to visit a western doctor once a year for an annual physical to keep my scuba instructor rating. Other than that, I wouldn't go unless it's an emergency - I just have very few physical problems. Usually, it's a different doctor every time.

Example #1. I'm a fairly thin person. It's not genetic - everyone else in my family is moderately to grossly overweight. I eat well and I get moderate exercise. Every time I see a new doctor, they immediately order a test for diabetes. I've had about 30 tests for diabetes - always negative - sometimes more than one by the same doctor. They see that I am thin, and they apply their prejudice - a thin person must be anorexic or diabetic. Sometimes, they think their prejudices are more significant than the test results, so they want me to be retested. I try to explain my lifestyle, but it's really hard to break through to doctors, especially ones that have been trained to make prejudicial decisions.

Example #2. About 10 years ago, I developed some mild digestive problems. Doctors said it was stress. Stress is the word that doctors use when they don't know the cause - stress is always an aggravating factor, but rarely a cause. Sometime, during many doctor's visits, it came out that ulcers were not caused by stress after all; they are caused by bacteria. I read this in the newspaper. On the next doctor's visit, they wanted to test me for stomach bacteria. They had no reason to think I had ulcers (I never had) - but they read the same newspaper and wondered the same thing - maybe I had ulcers. I'm sure after that newspaper article, a LOT of people got the same tests. Maybe a few people benefited, but I'm sure most people just got unnecessarily tested.

Example #3. "Try this and see if it helps". Doctors are influenced by pharmaceutical companies, the same way that our politicians are influenced by special interest groups. They are wined and dined, and are pushed drugs the way a common street-drug peddler pushes crack on kids. On several office visits, I've been given sample drugs to try, without ever having a test for the specific cause. Insurance companies don't want to pay for tests, but sample drugs are free. If it helps, it helps. If it doesn't, no harm done - maybe. Or maybe you're part of the unlucky 1% that has severe reactions to the drug. I guess that risk is a lot cheaper than running tests, and looking for the real cause.

Example #4. I get occasional U.T. infections once every few years. Rare for guys, but for some reason, I'm susceptible. The doctor's first prejudice is that I'm probably gay. After I tell them I'm not, they usually recommend cranberry juice. It doesn't work for me - the only thing that works that I've found so far is Cipro (an antibiotic). It used to be not that hard to get Cipro. Then after 9/11, everyone started stocking up, fearing a terrorist biological attack. Then doctors stopped giving Cipro to people - the next predjudice is that I'm just a fear-laden end-of-the-world survivalist nut. So I don't get medicine to help with my medical problem. Now, every few years, I buy Cipro from Mexican pharmaceutical companies, and bypass the doctors altogether.

All of these examples are from my own experiences. Not that doctors haven't helped me in the past. Western doctors have mended a few broken bones and yanked out a bad appendix that otherwise would've killed me. Eastern doctors have given me remedies for mild colds, and I get regular massage and I occasionally get chiropractic work. But overall, I'm more unsatisfied with doctors than I am satisfied.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[skyyhi 0]

Doctors aren't always right. . .in fact, doctors learn to treat illness and injury with drugs and surgery. Medications are not always the answer and sometimes cause more problems than they are worth. Medicine is an art. That is why they call it a practice. . .

We here in the US are just beginning to tap into the eastern medicine philosophy. It will be many, many years before it becomes readily acceptable practice. That being said, there is a hospital here in my area that I did my clinicals at last semester that offers accupuncture and accupressure as an adjunct to pain treatment and they have done many studies that show a reduction in pain medication usage since starting the program.

Now as for the quack cure-alls being offered on TV for 19.95 plus shipping and handling? Well, what can I say - anyone can write a book and sell it as the latest cure-all. . .you don't even have to prove that your theory works. . .

________________________________________
Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ
FGF #6
Darcy

[Nightingale 0]

A lot of people just want an easy fix for a not so easy problem.

Example: I lost about 20 pounds last year. My aunt asked me how I did it. I looked at her like she was nuts and said "eat less, exercise more." She looked disappointed and said "I was hoping there was some kind of trick! Like slimfast or something." She didn't want to devote the time to exercise, so she was looking for an easier way.

[happythoughts 0]

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A lot of people just want an easy fix for a not so easy problem.

I agree. Generally, people are force-fed tons of information through the media. People actually know most of the solutions to their problems, they just don't wish to implement them.

First, most problems require effort. Second, some solutions aren't 100% effective.

I have taken a lot of courses to improve my work skills. That takes effort. Some courses never improved my employment opportunities.

Some stuff works out, some doesn't. The stuff that doesn't work makes it less enticing to keep trying again and again. Giving up is far easier.

[kbordson 8]

Another thing to think about with regards to doctors is the fact that they are NOT supposed to TELL you what to do. Their job should be to help educate you on your choices and give recommendations. Then YOU decide what you need to do in your life.

Doctors are first and foremost teachers.... thus the name Physicians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor)

I would not do well with a Dr. that just told me to take this pill or do that test ... because (well... partly cuz I'm a little stubborn)... but also because it's my life and I want that control. However, the flip side of that coin means that I need to take responsibility for those decisions. If I'm overweight with a family history of diabetes... guess what, it's not the Dr.s fault if I have problems.... If I jump on a tweeked knee.... again, I hold the blame. If I chosse to sleep with multiple partners, with out protections.... I shouldn't be surprised or mad when the consequences come to face me.
I think one of the problems here (at least in the US) is lack of personal responsibility. It's much easier to point and say that the Dr. was a fool.... but if you thought so, why didn't you go for a second opinion.... or just not follow that recommendations.
Also learning also means listening to the info-mercials.... reading some of the books on alternative medicine.... looking beyond just the standard treatments. But doing in an INTELLIGENT manner. Don't fall for the snake oil.... my dad once told me that if you paid a dime for a diamond ring, chances are it isn't worth a nickle... if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. If it sounds like it might have merit... and you believe in it, try it. A very wise man once said "believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense." - Budda

Basically what I'm saying is that Dr's aren't evil.... it's not a big conspiracy.... there's no bonus for making you choose poorly... but it's only their job to try to educate their patients.
(however, in todays setting of managed care, they sometimes don't get the office time that you should deserve for that teaching)

anyway... thoughts to ponder.

Karen

[jumpingbean001 0]

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In Reply To
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Just because they've had the training doesn't mean they may competently practice with it.

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Bingo!!

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Once again, in every single profession, you will find people who are not doing their job. So, just because there are a few "bad doctors," does that mean someone who does not have knowledge of the human body is better qualified to treat conditions?

And you stole fizzing lifting drink!!!
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I just happened to stumble on this and you guys are just cracking me up with your debate. I have worked in the medical field for nearly 20 yrs and some of my best friends are doctors. I can tell you honestly that there are more factors involved than either of you have mentioned to this point (and granted I have not finished reading due to the headache I am developing). Jean, has her opinion and she is entitled to it, as are you. But in the real world of medicine, insurance in currently in control. If your insurance will not cover it, then either you have to be willing to pay for it or our hands are tied. I also believe in alternative medicine, but any meds (natural or pharmaceutical) can be overdone/overdosed with extremely harmful effects. All of us being mature adults are required to evaluate our options and do the research ourselves. True, a lot of individuals are out to 'make a buck' that is the American dream. You have to take charge of your care. If you rely too heavily on someone else, then SHAME ON YOU!

I can tell nearly 20 yrs' worth of stories where a dr was too cocky and failed to see something....a patient was too cocky and failed to hear or do something or just did something plain stupid...but that only opens individual cans of worms like you guys have done. In the end it comes back to you. After research, which course will you pursue? Will take the med or not? Only under rare circumstances will a dr force a med or treatment on you. The same with alternative treatments/meds. And some guy who has all the secrets for every dz known to man....come on. Who could that be???


Take Care!
Live Well, Be Smart!
Tammie


Stepping off my soapbox...moving on to more interesting reading.

Let's have fun! :)

[ojibwe 0]

because rhey lie to save their jobs family's livelihood and have sold out people for money what a crime. absolutely a question of your honesty, responsible for your health or the consequences constitute your preventable malfunction wake up my good friends i'm begging good bless take care smiley

MB 3864 Urantia Book and RUSH fan

[billvon 2,478]

> Why don't people listen to doctors?

Simple. Because often doctors tell people things they don't want to hear. Amy's almost stopped giving advice on orthopedics, because people don't want to hear her take on it. They just want an opinion that reinforces what they want to do (like jump.) No one wants to hear "lose 30 pounds, exercise more and start stretching" - they want to hear "take this pill and you'll be fine." No one wants to hear that kids get sick a lot when they're young - they just want antibiotics.

So people ignore doctors. And when they ignore their advice and don't get better they blame the doctors. Often they blame the doctors for prescribing the very drug they were asking them for. Look at many of the answers right here in this thread; people hearing doctors "just prescribing pills" because that's what they want to hear, and the other stuff is too difficult. It's like the old joke about dogs:

Doctor says:

"You really have to get more exercise to get your weight under control. And it will help get your blood pressure down, too, which is really a problem. I can recommend a dietician to help with your diet; that can have a tremendous influence on your cholesterol levels and will help with your weight as well. I can prescribe Levatol for blood pressure control and Zocor to help with cholesterol, but those should be last-ditch measures."

They hear:
"blah blah blah Levatol blah blah Zocor."

[sistaluv 0]

A good example c o u l d b e .........




mmmmmmmmmm......lets see..............







MY MOTHER CANNOT HAVE KIDS!
(now theres 2 of us)





Now that's good "medical evaluation" ya think!? Thats the kind of stuff dr tell some people even now... that are pregnant!

Blue Skies and Terminal Memories 4 Life

[Shotgun 1]

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My friend's theory is that Gen X was raised to distrust authority. I just don't get it!

First of all, I don't consider my doctor to be "authority" in the sense that you used here; my doctor is simply a professional that provides a particular service. I will ask her for advice about my health, but my health is ultimately my responsibility and certainly a lot more important to me than it is to her. I will consider her advice along with everything else that I know about the problem and then decide for myself what I want to do about it (and of course I won't blame her if I make the wrong decision).

There are some problems that doctors can help you with, and there are some that they can't help you with. After all, there is still quite a bit that we don't know about the human body.

But I agree about the crap on infomercials. I don't think you'll ever find me buying any of that stuff either...

[Buried 0]

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But I agree about the crap on infomercials. I don't think you'll ever find me buying any of that stuff either...

why not? just b/c it hasn't been approved by the FDA or anything else..... oh wait..

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

[Vallerina 2]

Whoa! Holy moly! Just because I consider doctors to be one of the best people to go to for advice about my health does NOT mean I think that all doctors are perfect. They are human. This is why people get second opinions. I have had doctors diagnose me incorrectly. I've had issues with a clinic I used to go to (not getting test results back to me, losing my records, etc.) However, I still think that after YEARS of education and training, doctors know more about the human body than anyone else, nor are they trying to hide the "real" truth from people.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[goose491 0]

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Why would you expect him to have extensive knowledge of musculo-skeletal issues, then? That'd be a bit like expecting an herbalist to know acupuncture, I'd think.

Val is asking why people don't listen to their doctors. Her question stems from people trying to sell remedies alternate to conventional western medicine and stating that a traditional Dr. "would not want you to know about this."

Go to a doctor, he/she will come up with a solution. But this doctor knows no more than his/her area of specialty in western medicine... full circle.

You're asking "why would you expect him to have extensive knowledge of musculo-skeletal issues?" The answer: Because he practices what is called "general medicine" and you have asked him about a medical issue.

This whole "Don't listen to Drs, they just want your money" happens on both sides of the fence. You see, this Uncle-doctor, practitioner of general medecine, possibly specialised in cardio... do you see him refering you to accupuncture or herbal medicine?... why not?

Drs. don't know everything... But often come off as thought they do... it's hard not to given all the years they've spent studying. But there's more then one way to skin a cat.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!