Motor cycle help

[freeflajankie 0]

Hey all,
I'm in the market for a motor cycle, but I know jack shit about them.
Basically what I'm looking for is a 250cc Cruiser model.
There is quite a few, and the prices are similar.
Some are single cylinder and some are twin.
When I went to Honda they said that the Suzuki wouldn't go on the interstate, (not that I want that anyway) And when I went to Suzuki they said that the bike would go just fine on the interstate.
Honda is a twin cylinder and the Suzuki is a single.

What should I get?
I'm just looking for something that will take me to and from work cheap. And an occasional trip here and there.
So not really to cruise along.

I'm sure someone here has more knowledge than I do.

Thanks
Ankie

Skydivers are a bunch of insensitive jerks...
And that's why I don't skydive anymore!

[Luv2Fall 0]

Personally, I would not get anything smaller than a 750.......there will be times you'll need a little ass to the bike to get out of a situation. Having said that, do not buy anything less than a 600......let that be the minimum.

In most instances when people buy a small bike, they want to move up within three months or so. I have a 750 and it does fine with my 220 pounds, but definately want a bigger bike next year as I do travel the interstates quite often.

[okalb 79]

Hey Ankie,

A couple of years ago I was looking at the Kawasaki Ninja 250 for Laura. It is a sweet little bike. Given your size and weight, it would be fun to ride and you can probably get all the speed you want out of it. It should be able to do around 90 on the highway as long as you are riding solo. They aren't very expensive and you can pick up a used one fairly cheap. I also looked at the Honda, but you would have a lot more fun on the ninja.

-OK

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[Hooknswoop 19]

Here is a great article from a sportbike forum:

"Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

Introduction

Well, another riding season is upon us and as it always happens, we get lots of inquiries from potential new riders on how to get into the sport, what's a good first ride, where to take safety classes and so on. One particular type of inquiry that pops up with almost clockwork frequency is from a small number of new riders who wish to buy 600cc and up sportbikes as their first ride.

For the past year and a half, I, along with lots of other BB forum members, have entertained this question of 600cc sportbikes for a first ride with patience and lots and lots of repetition. It seems this small group of newbies keep coming back with the same arguments and questions over and over again. As a result, I am going to take the time in this column to try and put into words, answers that get repeated over and over on the BB forums.

Allow me to state first and foremost that I am a sport rider. My first bike was a Ninja 250R and I put nearly 7000 miles on it in two seasons before selling it. Although I am not an expert rider by any stretch, I have tinkered enough and done enough research along with talking with other riders to be able to speak with some degree of knowledge on the subject.

This column is split into two parts. First, I would like to address the common arguments we see here as to why a 600cc sportbike simply must be a first ride along with rebuttals. Second, I want to cover the rationale behind why the sportbikez.net community-at-large steers new riders away from these machines.

False Logic

On about a three month interval, a whole slew of questions pop up on the forum from potential riders trying to convince the community that a 600cc sportbike is a suitable first ride and then proceed to explain to us why they are the exception. I can almost set my clock to this pattern of behavior since it is almost swarm-like. I guess the newbies figure by swamping the forum with the same questions in lots of places we might trip up and endorse such a machine. Hasn't happened yet but they keep on trying.

For those of you that come to Beginner Bikes trying to convince us to endorse a 600cc sportbike, I offer you the following responses to your arguments.
I can only afford to get one bike so it might as be the one that I want.

I don't want to go through the hassle of buying and selling a used bike to learn on.

These two lines of reasoning pop up as one of the more common arguments. I am going to offer first a piece of wisdom which is stated with great regularity on the forums:

This is your first bike, not your last.

Motorcycle riders are reputed to change bikes, on average, once every two to three years. If this is the case (and it appears to be based on my observations), the bike you learn to ride on will not be in your garage in a few years time anyway whether you buy it new or used. You're going to sell it regardless to get something different, newer, more powerful, more comfortable, etc.

Yes, buying a bike involves effort and a financial outlay. Most of us simply cannot afford to drop thousands of dollars on a whim every time we want to try something new. Getting into riding is a serious commitment in time and money and we want the best value out it as much as possible.

However, if you can afford to buy outright or finance a 600cc or up sportbike that costs $7000 on average, you can probably afford to spend $2000 or so on a used bike to learn on. Most of the beginner sportbikes we recommend here (Ninja 250/500, Buell Blast, GS500) can all be found used for between $1500-$3000.

Done properly, buying and selling that first bike is a fairly painless process. Buying a used bike is no harder than buying new. I would argue it is a bit easier. No different than buying a used car from a private seller. If you've done that at least once, you'll know what to do in buying a used bike.

Selling a beginner bike is even easier. You want to know why? Because beginner bikes are constantly in demand (especially Ninja 250s). These bikes spend their lives migrating from one new rider to the next to act as a teaching vehicle. It is not uncommon for a beginner bike to see four or five different owners before it is wrecked or junked. There are a lot of people out there looking for inexpensive, reliable bikes and all of our beginner recommendations fit into that category.

If you buy a used Ninja 250R for $1500, ride it for a season or two, you can be almost guaranteed that you will be able to resell that bike for $1300 or so when you are done with it provided you take care of it. And on a bike like the Ninja 250R, the average turnaround on such a sale is two to three days. No joke. I had five offers on my Ninja 250R within FOUR HOURS of my ad going up on Cycle Trader. I put the bike on hold the same day and sold it four days later to a fellow who drove 500 miles to pick it up. My bike never made it into the print edition. Believe me, the demand is there.

And look at it this way: For those one or two seasons of riding using the above example, excluding maintenance costs which you have no matter what, you will have paid a net cost of $200 to ride that Ninja. That is extremely cheap for what is basically a bike rental for a year or two. Considering it can cost $300 or more just to rent a 600cc sportbike for a weekend (not including the $1500-$2000 security deposit), that is economic value that you simply cannot argue with.

Vanity Arguments

The beginner bikes you recommend are dated and ugly looking.

I want something that's modern and stylish.

I want a bike that looks good and that I look good on.

I call these the vanity arguments. These are probably the worst reasons you can have for wanting a particular bike.

I will not disagree that aesthetics plays a huge part in the bikes that appeal to us. Motorcycles are the ultimate expression in personal taste in vehicles. Far more than cars. Bikes are more personal and the connection between rider and machine is far more intimate on a bike than a car. On a bike, you are part of the machine, not just a passive passenger.

However, as entry into world of riding and with the temporarily status that most beginner bikes have in our garages, looks should be the least of your concerns. As long as the bike is in good repair and mechanically sound, that is usually enough for most new riders to be happy. Most riders are happy to ride and they will ride anything given the choice between riding or not riding.

If you are looking at bike mainly because of how it looks and/or how you will look it and how others will perceive you on it, take a good, long, honest look as to why you want to ride. There are lots of people out there who buy things strictly because of how it makes them appear in the eyes of others. It's shallow and vain but it is a fact of life. It shouldn't be a factor in choosing that first ride but it is. I won't deny that.

The difference is: a BMW or Mercedes generally won't leaving you hanging on for dear life if you stomp on the accelerator or throw you into the road if you slam on the brakes a little hard. Virtually ever sportbike made in the past 10-15 years will do both of those things given a chance to do so (for reasons that will be explained later in this column).

The population at large may think you're cool and look great on that brand new sportbike and ohh-and-ahh at you. The ohhs can quickly turn to screams of horror should, in your efforts to impress the masses, you wind up dumping your bike and surfing the asphalt. Will you still look cool with thousands of dollars in damage to that once-beautiful sportbike and with the signatures and well-wishes of your friends on the various casts you'll be wearing months afterwards?

You Be The Judge

I'm a big rider so I need a bigger bike to get me around.

I'm a tall rider and all of those beginner bikes just don't fit me the way the sportbike does.

I'll look huge and foolish riding on such a small bike.

My friends will laugh at me for riding something so small.

These arguments are almost as bad as the vanity arguments. The difference being is they simply show a lack of motorcycle knowledge for the most part.

Unless you are over 6'3" tall or are extremely overweight (meaning well over 300lbs), even the smallest 250cc motorcycle will be able to accommodate you without difficultly. To provide an example, the Ninja 250R has a load limit of 348 pounds. That is more than sufficient to accommodate a heavier rider in full gear and still leave plenty of space for cargo in tank, tail and saddle bags. Or enough to allow two-up riding between two average weight individuals.

The idea that bigger riders need bigger bikes is almost laughable. It's like saying small drivers need Honda Civics but bigger drivers only 100 pounds heavier need to drive Hummers to get around. Or Corvettes with plenty of power to pull their ample frames, as the analogy goes. It is only because of the small physical size of bikes compared to their users that this train of thought even exists. It simply doesn't hold up to scrutiny. A look at any motorcycle owner's manual will confirm that for you.

Tall riders suffer more from fit issues than weight issues. On this, they do have a point. I'm a taller rider (6'1"). I do fold up quite comfortably on the Ninja 250 which is considered a small bike. I found it perfect for my frame. Others haven't. Then again, my knees hit the bars on bikes like the Rebel 250 and Buell Blast. Just different ergonomics that didn't fit me.

For taller riders, a much better beginner fit is a dual-sport machine rather than a sport machine. They offer the high seat heights that make them comfortable rides and their power is well within acceptable limits. We have a small but vocal dual-sport community here and they will tell you, quite rightly, that a dual-sport is just as capable on twisty roads as a sportbike. The same properties that give sportbikes their cornering ability is also possessed by dual sports (high center of gravity).

As to peer pressure, I admit to taking more than my fair share of ribbing from my 600cc riding friends. Some of it good natured, some of it not. In the end, this argument falls into the vanity arena. Which is more important: Your safety and comfort on a bike or what your friends think?

The ways to deal with friends giving you a hard time about a smaller ride is very simple. Tell them to ride their rides and you'll ride yours. It's your ride, after all. Most true riders will accept other riders, no matter what they are on. Only posers and losers care that your ride doesn't measure up to their "standards". And if so, do you really want to be riding with them anyway? It's more fun to stand out than to be a member of a flock anyway. And if they don't buy that line of reasoning, try this one: "Well if you don't like my ride, why don't you go buy me something that you will like?". THAT will shut them up REALLY fast. It works too. Unless their name is on the payment book or the title, it shouldn't be their concern.

If your friends can't deal with your decisions, you're probably better off looking for new friends. And if you can't deal with the peer pressure, then you are putting your own safety at risk solely because of what others think. Revisit the vanity arguments above and think about why you want to ride.

Decision Justification Arguments

I'll take it easy and grow into the bike.

I'm a careful driver so I'll be a careful rider and not get into trouble.

I drive a fast car so I'll be able to handle a fast bike.

Other people have started on a 600cc sportbike and didn't get hurt. So why can't I?

These arguments are the most common ones put forth and the ones that are hardest to deal with. These are the arguments that start flame wars. Because it is on these arguments that you have to convince someone the idea of what a beginner bike is over their preconceived notions.

The arguments also often surface in what I call the "decision justification arguments". Many new riders have their heart set on a specific bike and often come to BB to ask about it not to get real advice but to get confirmation that their decision is right. In cruisers, standards, scooters and dual-sports, more often than not these "pre-decisions" are generally good ones. In sportbikes, more than 3/4 of the posters are trying to get the community to approve their choice of a 600cc machine as a first ride. Their shock is quite real when they are barraged with answers that don't meet their expectations and that is when a flurry of oft-repeated discussion ensues.

Let's take each argument in turn since these are the ones that turn up with regularity.

I'll take it easy and grow into the bike.

The purpose of a first bike is to allow you to master basic riding skills, build confidence and develop street survival strategies. You don't grow into a bike. You develop your skills on it. As your skills develop, so does your confidence and with it, your willingness to explore what the bike is capable of.

But you are also entering in a contract with the bike. It is two-way. You are going to expect the bike to act on your inputs and the bike in turn is going to respond. The problem is, your skills are still developing but the bike doesn't know that. It does what it is told. You want a partner in a contract to treat you fairly. On a bike, you don't want it fighting you every step of the way. And like most contracts, the problems don't start until there is a breakdown in communication or a misunderstanding.

In sportbikes, the disparity between a new rider's fledgling skills and the responsiveness of the machine are very far apart. That is a wide gulf to bridge when you are still trying to figure out what the best inputs and actions on the bike should be. Ideally, you want your bike to do what you tell it and do it nicely. You never want the bike to argue with you. Modern sportbikes, despite their exquisite handling will often argue violently right at the moment a new rider doesn't need them to.

Remember, riding is a LEARNED skill. It does not come naturally to the majority of us (save those like the Hayden brothers who were raised on dirt bikes from the moment they could walk). It must be practiced and refined. Riding is counter-intuitive to most new riders. It doesn't happen the way you expect. For example, at speeds over 25mph, to get a bike to go right, you actually turn the bars to the left. It's called counter-steering and it eventually comes naturally as breathing once you've been in the saddle for a while. But for new riders, this kind of thing is utterly baffling.

You want your skills to grow in a measurable and predictable fashion. You have enough to be fearful of riding in traffic. The last thing you need is to be fearful of what your bike might do when you aren't ready for it. It's never a good situation.

It is interesting to point out that only one manufacturer, Suzuki, explicitly states in their promotional material that their GSX-R family of sportbikes are intended for experienced riders. This also applies to several of their larger, more powerful machines (such as a GSX-1300R Hayabusa). If Suzuki issues such a warning for its top-flight sport machines, it is reasonable to say that the same warning would apply equally to similar machines from other manufacturers."

Derek

[Luv2Fall 0]

Great article............agreed 100%. I was referring to cruisers with thread orginator...........a sports bike definately is unwise in this case.

[WatchYourStep 0]

You're going to get a million different answers on here so take all of them (mine included with a skepticism). The article that Hooknswoop gives has some good points, but there are some that are very debatable.

I love riding my R1 (1000cc). I've got over 8,000 miles on it since late April when I picked it up. With that being said it was my 4th road bike plus I had many dirt bikes as a kid. The important thing is to find a bike you feel comfortable on and are able to handle. Some 250cc have enough to get up and go to do some minor tooling around town, but I don't know if I'd ever ride one for a prolonged period of time, but they are an excellent intro into bikes. Someone recently made the comparison to bike size and canopy size or something along those lines. For instance if you are just starting to skydive it probably isn't the smartest thing in the world to start on some radical canopy. Just like if you were starting to ride a R1 probably wouldn't be a good fit for you. You should ease into it and figure out your flying style and you limitations.

I strongly recommend taking a motorcycle safety class http://www.msf-usa.org/ These classes are excellent, cheap, and they provide the bikes. The bike I had when I took the class was a 250cc bike. Even though I had been riding for several years before I took the class I still learned a ton. It was slow at first because they cover everything as if you have no idea how to ride a bike. That is part of the reason this is such a good class for beginners to take.

I hope this helps feel free to PM me for more information.

"You start off your skydiving career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience up before your bag of luck runs out."

[KevinMcGuire 0]

Great article. What is the name of that forum? I think I'd like to check it out. Thanks
Kevin

[Diversgodown 0]

A 250 Sounds pretty small, My First Bike was a Honda Shadow 1100cc, I loved that bike it rarely gave me any problems and would start in the dead of winter (in Illinois) when my buddies Harley's wouldn't. I would at least get a 600 or higher. For a sport bike 250 might be ok but cruisers are usually a little heavier so the smaller cc's just don't have the power. IMO. The riders saftey course is definetley a good idea I took it and I forget the exact statistic, but I was something like 80% of riders that wreck were self taught or taught by a friend!!!! Plus you get a discount on insurance. Ride Safe on whatever you get. I have had 4 friends go down 1 Died. They were also all drinking (DON'T DRINK AND RIDE) I was guilty of it to but was LUCKY!

***Glory Favors the Bold***

[ying82 0]

Have you considered 600 standards? I started off on a ducati monster, but wished I had known about the suzuki sv650. There's a lot of beginners starting on used ones, plus you'll have more fun and more room to expand on the the vtwin. Try out www.socalsvriders.org. There's a lot of great people there. I'll also jump on the msf bandwagon. I went to the msf course with knowledge of how to ride a bicycle only, and then took it slowly from there. You need it, even if you're just riding a 250.

we're extremely fortunate
not to know precisely
the kind of world we live in.
-W.Szymborska

[skybytch 259]

Disclaimer - I know jack shit about bikes.

My first bike was a 250 "enduro" (dual sport; for on or off road). Probably equates to a 250 cruiser in overall power. It didn't like freeway speeds and wasn't comfortable for long trips but it was great fun for bopping around town. It was also light enough that I could pick it up myself when I dropped it.

I just got an older 650 cruiser. It's big. It's heavy. I'm glad I didn't start with a bike this size; it would have scared me.

[Diversgodown 0]

I just got an older 650 cruiser.

Quote

It's big. It's heavy. I'm glad I didn't start with a bike this size; it would have scared me.

[FrEaK_aCcIdEnT 0]

good article, but it was long and i got tired half way through.

this is just my input on my experience. anyone may feel freee to take it as they wish. and let me know what ur thoughts are.

My first bike is the one i ride now. I have owned it for over 2 years and have dropped it about 3 times. All were lesss than 5mph or just knocking it over. I will admit to doing some stupid stuff on it, but i make sure i am the one that is in danger. I dont ride wheelies, i dont pull stoppies. I like speed. There has been a time or 2 that I have watched the digital guage just to see how far i could get it to go. I have taken very good care of my bike in thetime i have had it. I have over 19,000 miles on it. I got it brand new with 0 miles. got to see her in the shipping crate. She never made it to the showroom floor. im proud of my bike. it is a sportbike. I wouldnt recommend a sportbike to many peple because of thier nature towards riding. I did take a MSF course before gettting it. had my liscense for 2 years before i was able to get my credit in a situation were i could purchase it. I have recommmended a sv650 to a few people. but even a sv650 will get u to 60 in less then 4 sec. if u know how to ride it right. so anything can be dangerous. i would say that beware of getting something that is too small. I say this because there has been many situations were if i didnt have the extra power i would have been eating the concrete barrier or the grass in the median from people not seeing me. A newer motorcycle is better than an older simply because the brakes are better!

I love riding and i do it on a daily basis. I dont see myself getting rid of my bike for atleast another 3 years. Hopefully i get to keep the rubber on the road, but I prepare myself with the right gear just incase!

Please wear a helmet and Gloves at the minimum!

1. Helmet (MUST HAVE)
2. Gloves (what do u do to catch urself when u fall )
3. jacket (They make all kinds for summer and winter.)
4. pants (if u dont like leather then there is a company that makes draggin jeans.)
5. boots (hightop is prefered)
I myself do wear a jacket even if it is 106 and im in traffic. Id rather keep all the skin i can. I wear jeans but not leathers. I am guilty for not wearing high tp boots. I wear my work boots cause they are steel toe. but low top. (im risking my ankles!) I accept that.

I dont pitty anyone who gets hurt while riding without the proper gear. Unless it is a passanger. Cause they dont have any control on the situation. I dont let people ride with me. If u willingly dont wear the proper gear then u are accepting any results that come from a spill.

Good Luck in ur quest for a bike. Get one that suits ur height and what u intend to do with it. I chose the 4 cyl. Fuel injected for ease of maintence.

When i wanted more pep I changed the gearing.

Ride safe and if u havnt gone to a saftey course, everyone can learn something from a saftey course. if u dont do it to learn something new, do it for the insurance discount

ExPeCt ThE uNeXpEcTeD!
DoNt MiNd ThE tYpOs, Im LaZy On CoRrEcTiOnS!

[bwilling 0]

The 250cc machines are great starter bikes, but you may want to consider a used machine in that size, because as you gain experience riding, you will probably want a bigger machine one day...

I heartily agree with everyone that has recommended the Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) course! I returned to riding after a very long layoff, and deciding to take the course before hopping on my bike was one of the smartest things I've ever done.

It's possible that if you take the course before you buy a bike, you'll get exposure to the very bikes you're considering buying! I did my MSF course on the 250cc Honda you're looking at, and they had 250cc models from Suzuki and Kawasaki used in the class too...

I've got a Suzuki SV650, and while I love it, I would not recommend it as a first bike... I think it's a little too big and a little too powerful for a first time rider, and think they'd be better served by doing some saddle time on something smaller and tamer first...

It's a great second or third bike though!

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[Diversgodown 0]

Helmets are for Pussies!!! Just tuck and roll tuck and roll

***Glory Favors the Bold***

[freeflajankie 0]

Hey,

Thanks all for the input.

I don't really like bikes:)
So that's why I'm not even looking at the "big"one 500 and over... They scare me

Basically it's just for hopping around Zhills which is nothing but old folks and skydivers, so really there is no power needed, a Regular bike would be fine, but i'm lazy. And I look funny on my little 43cc "harley" scooter and wouldn't be driving around town on that thing..

Again, thanks for all your input.
Ankie

Skydivers are a bunch of insensitive jerks...
And that's why I don't skydive anymore!

[FIREFLYR 0]

Unless you are 80lbs and under 5ft don't get a 250MC,get a scooter you'll be way happier.
I think a 750cc would be irrisponcible and way too much bike for a first rider.
An dual sport(dirt bike made for driving on the street) 350 would be awesome, off the line quickness,not too high a topspeed (80 mph maybe) and you can drop it a bunch and it will be ok.
Also an SV 650 (Suzuki I think) is good for a beginner and you won't get bored of it.
~J

"One flew East,and one flew West..............one flew over the cuckoo's nest"
"There's absolutely no excuse for the way I'm about to act"

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I don't really like bikes:)
So that's why I'm not even looking at the "big"one 500 and over... They scare me

This is a good reason not to get one!

Like skydiving, you're taking on a lot of risk. If you're not going to enjoy it, what's the point?

Scooters are much less the death traps they used to be. You can now get nice looking ones with decent sized wheels and working brakes. OTOH, still not as safe as a cage.

I might agree with that biased dealer - not sure I'd want any 250 besides the Ninja/EX250 for freeway use.

The SV650 is a very tall bike, which makes it a terrible first bike for a lot of people.

[justinb138 0]

Quote

I might agree with that biased dealer - not sure I'd want any 250 besides the Ninja/EX250 for freeway use.

I'd agree too. I've ridden one or two single-cylinder 250's and they were a pain over 50mph. The EX500 might not be bad either. It'd do better on the highway, and it's still no where near the 600SS class bikes.

Quote

The SV650 is a very tall bike, which makes it a terrible first bike for a lot of people.

I believe the Suzuki GS500 is a little bit shorter, and a little more docile than the SV.

[ACMESkydiver 0]

Hook you do NOT get the award for the longest post, 'cuz you cut and paste.

-And because you spelt yer name wrong. Everyone knows that it's s'posed to bee 'Derick', just lyke my boy.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

Hook you do NOT get the award for the longest post, 'cuz you cut and paste.

LOL! Ya, No way did I write that. I could write something similar about canopies though. I could even make it longer than that. I ran across that while searching for information that will help keep me alive on my new CBR600RR

I think I was named after a hockey player. Not sure though. I should ask my mother about that.

Derek

[Rick 67]

Hey Ankie,
Deb's uncle had a 1 cylinder Suzuki 400cc I think it was a GL model. It was a great motorcycle. You need to make sure whatever you get will be comfortable. Some of the smaller bikes are set up for people 5' tall. The Suzuki had a nice seat and was very dependable. It had enough power to travel on the highway and would carry 2 people with no problem. I have owned several rice burners and pretty much any brand you get will be dependable and low maintenance.

Se you guys this weekend
Rick

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[ACMESkydiver 0]

Quote

I think I was named after a hockey player. Not sure though. I should ask my mother about that.

Derek

My husband named our son after his best man at our wedding, and spelled it that way because his buddy did. It is the oddest spelling of the name I have ever seen.

Teachers at school keep trying to spell it like yours, or 'Derrick', and my poor boy doesn't know to tell them it's wrong because he can't speak or write his name without help anyway. Poor kid!

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[billvon 2,463]

>Basically what I'm looking for is a 250cc Cruiser model.
>There is quite a few, and the prices are similar.

I had no problems with a Honda 250cc in Africa. But then again, there wasn't much traffic there, and I rarely took it over 60mph.

[tr027 0]

Suzuki SV650

:)

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

[Luv2Fall 0]

Here ya go - should buff right up.


Bhah......pic didn't load.....I'll try again later.