Documentation

[leapdog 0]

I did a serach of the forums and found nothing. I also did a search on FAA.gov for information. I'm looking for documentation (FAR, AC, AD, ect) that can tell me when aftermarket parts are allowed on TSO equipment.

Thanks

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[PhreeZone 15]

What aftermarket equipment are you looking for info on? Something like stickers on reserve handels or patches on reserve flaps or are you looking for info on somthing else?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[leapdog 0]

Specifically, replacement of aftermarket parts.

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[councilman24 36]

That's not particularly specific. The description "aftermarket parts" doesn't really have a history in parachute. There are approved components and everything else. What follows is from FAA AC 105-2c.

And "replacement of aftermarket parts" implies that it's already not factory original. Or do you mean replacement WITH aftermarket parts?

Other than manufacturer's manuals, which for the most part will specify factory original replacement parts for approved components, this is the only guidance I know of for interchangablility of components covered by an approval under TSO C23x. This allows us to put a reserve model in a container never tested with it.

Note the canopy/harness compatibility statements toward the end. Under these guidelines there are many combinations in the air that may be technically illegal. PIA's position is there is no practical incompatability problem.

"11. Assembly of major parachute components


A. The assembly or mating of approved parachute components from different manufacturers may be made by a certificated appropriately rated parachute rigger or parachute loft in accordance with the parachute manufacturer's instructions and without further authorization by the manufacturer or the FAA. Specifically, when various parachute components are interchanged, the parachute rigger should follow the canopy manufacturer's instructions as well as the parachute container manufacturer's instructions. However, the container manufacturer's instructions take precedence when there is a conflict between the two.

B. Assembled Parachute Components Must be Compatible. Each component of the resulting assembly must function properly and may not interfere with the operation of the other components. For example:


1. Do not install a high volume canopy into a low-volume parachute container since the proper functioning of the entire parachute assembly could be adversely affected.

2. A TSO'ed canopy may be assembled with a demilitarized harness, or vice versa, as long as the assembled components comply with the safety standard of the original design.

C. Any questions about the operation of the assembly should be resolved by actual tests by the rigger or loft to make certain the parachute is safe for emergency use.

D. The parachute rigger or the parachute loft who are assembling components manufactured under TSO-C23c will record, in the space provided on the container, the data required by Aerospace Standard AS-8015B, paragraph 4.2.1. (Copies may be obtained from the Engineering Society for Advancing Mobility Land, Sea, Air and Space, 400 Commonwealth Drive, Warrendale, PA 15096-0001.)

E. The strength of the harness must always be equal to or greater than the maximum force generated by the canopy during certification tests.


1. In a case where the harness is certificated under TSO-C23b and the canopy under TSO-C23c, the maximum generated force of the canopy must not exceed the certificated category force of the harness and container; i.e., Low-Speed Category (3,000 lbs.) and Standard Category (5,000 lbs.). In this instance, no additional marking on the container is necessary.

2. In the case where the canopy is certificated under the TSO-C23b and the harness under TSO-C23c, the strength of the harness must be equal to or greater than the certificated category force of the canopy.

F. The user of a single harness, dual pack parachute system, which is a sport assembly consisting of a main and auxiliary/reserve parachute, may perform simple assembly and disassembly operations necessary for transportation, handling, or storage between periods of use if the parachute is designed to simplify such assembly and disassembly without the use of complex operations."

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[leapdog 0]

Thanks Terry. To clarify I mean replacing factory original with another part (aftermarket). Such as a reserve cable assembly, free bag or pilot chute, ect for the reserve deployment system.


Thanks

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[RIGGER 0]

For your info. Free Bags & Reserve P/C must be originals from the h/c mfg. No other approved.

Safe Rigging !!!!

[deadwood 0]

Quote

For your info. Free Bags & Reserve P/C must be originals from the h/c mfg. No other approved.

Safe Rigging !!!!

Then what does this mean?

"11. Assembly of major parachute components


A. The assembly or mating of approved parachute components from different manufacturers may be made by a certificated appropriately rated parachute rigger or parachute loft in accordance with the parachute manufacturer's instructions and without further authorization by the manufacturer or the FAA. Specifically, when various parachute components are interchanged, the parachute rigger should follow the canopy manufacturer's instructions as well as the parachute container manufacturer's instructions. However, the container manufacturer's instructions take precedence when there is a conflict between the two.

He who hesitates shall inherit the earth.

Deadwood
Skydive New Mexico Motorcycle Club, Touring Division

[leapdog 0]

I could be wrong but I think that free bags and PC's are part of the container. the interchangeable part is between canopy and container.

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[mark 104]

Quote

I could be wrong but I think that free bags and PC's are part of the container. the interchangeable part is between canopy and container.

Including free bags and pilot chutes with rigs is common practice, although not required by regulation. As an analogy, for years main canopy manufacturers shipped them on risers and with deployment bags; harness/container manufacturers supplied risers and d-bags only for an extra charge.

TSO-C23c and C23d call out seven major components, starting with the pilot chute and ending with the ripcord. "Best practice" (a legal term of art) would be to follow Shlomo's advice and use only manufacturer-supplied replacement parts, but it is not settled that riggers are limited to substituting only canopies and not other components.

Mark

[leapdog 0]

Do you have a source document or know where I can read it?

Thanks

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[mark 104]

Quote

Do you have a source document or know where I can read it?

AC 105-2C for the rigger's privilege of combining compatible components. Terry quoted the relevant portions earlier in this thread.

Parachute Rigger Handbook has TSO performance specs in one of the appendices. An on-line version of the PRH is at http://www.pilotoutlook.com/pilot_training/parachute_rigger_menu.

Mark

[masterrigger1 2]

Quote

Including free bags and pilot chutes with rigs is common practice, although not required by regulation........

......but it is not settled that riggers are limited to substituting only canopies and not other components

You still must follow the manufacturer's instructions!

That would be regulation.

Most that I can think of stipulate that only original manufacturer's parts and materials are to be used.

i.e. Sun Path, Inc, PD, and etc....

Cheers,
Mel

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

Do you have a source document or know where I can read it?

Thanks

AS8015-B

2.1.1 GENERAL: For purposes of this document a parachute assembly normally, but not exclusively, consists of the following major components:

a. Deployment initiation device (pilot chute, drogue, or functional equivalent); bridle, if applicable

b. Deployment control device (sleeve, bag, diaper, or functional equivalent), if used

c. Canopy(s) (includes suspension lines, connector links if used, and reefing device, if used)

d. Riser(s), if used, when not integral with harness and/or canopy

e. Stowage container

f. Harness(es)

g. Primary actuation device (ripcord or functional equivalent, including reserve static line, if used)

---

Sparky

(see attachment)

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[leapdog 0]

Quote

Quote

Do you have a source document or know where I can read it?

AC 105-2C for the rigger's privilege of combining compatible components. Terry quoted the relevant portions earlier in this thread.

Parachute Rigger Handbook has TSO performance specs in one of the appendices. An on-line version of the PRH is at http://www.pilotoutlook.com/pilot_training/parachute_rigger_menu.

Mark

This what I was actually refering to. " TSO-C23c and C23d call out seven major components, starting with the pilot chute and ending with the ripcord." Is there a document that spells out TSO C23x?

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[leapdog 0]

Nice! Thanks, that is a big help! I'm still looking for someting that says in black and white that a rigger may (or may not) replace orginal equipment such as a rip cord assembly with some other part such as another manufacturers rip cord assembly or a part belonging to a different make and model rig.

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[masterrigger1 2]

Damion,

I guess I need to elaborate further on my last post.

There is not a FAA statement that clearly states what you are seeking.

That is why the manufacters have including statement like below in their manuals. This is from the Javelin manual;

Quote

Only the JAVELIN reserve pilot chute may be used with the JAVELIN harness/
container system. Do not substitute any other pilot chute.

Only the "molar free-bag may be used when packing a ram-air reserve canopy into
the JAVELIN harness/container system.

All JAVELINS are manufactured ready to accept the Cypres A.A.D.

Only Javelin reserve ripcords to be used.

So, by the FAA standard of following the manufacturer's instructions; it becomes mandatory!

There are several other manfacturers that do the same as above.


Cheers,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[leapdog 0]

Thanks Mark. I think that clarification ends my quest.

But now I'm curious to see if TSO C23x is spelled out in a document somwhere. On the FAA website I only find manufacturers that have product tested to 23- b, c, d

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[pilotdave 0]

You're looking for the actual TSO?

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgtso.nsf/0/00493ac675eda12e86256da500600ef7!OpenDocument&Click=

All the current TSOs

Dave

[mark 104]

Quote

I'm curious to see if TSO C23x is spelled out in a document somwhere. On the FAA website I only find manufacturers that have product tested to 23- b, c, d

C23b, c, and d are two-page letters that refer to specifications contained in NAS-804, AS8015A, and AS8015B respectively. Copies of the TSOs and the specifications are in the Parachute Rigger Handbook starting on page A-19. You can download a copy of the PRH from the FAA website, or go to the web site I cited in an earlier post.

The TSO specs lay out the test standards; the second part of the TSO system is ensuring production articles are identical to test articles. Manufacturing inspections, traceability, and other quality control systems vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

As to following the manufacturer's instructions, I agree with MEL that we really ought to be doing that, not looking for ways to stretch the regulations to make them more convenient. At the same time, I'm not sure whether the FAA regards manufacturer instructions to fall into a category analogous to an Aircraft Owner Manual (a guide published by the manufacturer and not subject to FAA approval) or Pilot Operating Handbook (an FAA-approved part of the aircraft). If the latter, then any change to the manual would have to be FAA-approved, and deviation from the manual, including by the owner packing his main parachute, would be unauthorized.

Can anyone point to a case where a rigger has been sanctioned (or not) for substituting TSOd or other parts from another manufacturer?

Mark

[riggerrob 558]

CSPA allows Rigger As to substitute similar ripcords.
Inspect to ensure the new ripcord is the correct lenght, pin-spacing, handle size, TSO C23?, etc.

If the rig has an RSL installed, the ripcord must be able to withstand a 600 pound pull for 3 seconds. In practice, this is easily checked by ensuring that it has a ball and shank on the bottom end.
At least one Canadian manufacturer installs two balls to achieve the same strength.

Beyond that, substituting reserve components gets very complicated and is best done by a Rigger B. Reserve pilot chutes can only be substituted between a handful of containers. For example, you can install a Dolphin pilot chute in a Javelin and some sizes of Dolphin freebag fit into a few sizes of Javelin. For example, a Dolphin D7 freebag fits gracefully into a Javelin J7.

Other than that, the only substitution - that I can think of - is installing Vector II pilot chutes in Eclipse, Naro, Sidewinder, Talon 1, etc.

[Beatnik 2]

Quote

At least one Canadian manufacturer installs two balls to achieve the same strength.

Are you talking about Al's ripcords? The reason he does the two balls at the end of the ripcord cable is psychological. The cost of a ball is pretty much nothing and he and his customers said they felt better having two on the end. The second one doesn't add any strength to the assembly.

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

But now I'm curious to see if TSO C23x is spelled out in a document somwhere. On the FAA website I only find manufacturers that have product tested to 23- b, c, d

Try the attachment and see if this meets your needs.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[leapdog 0]

Quote

Quote

But now I'm curious to see if TSO C23x is spelled out in a document somwhere. On the FAA website I only find manufacturers that have product tested to 23- b, c, d

Try the attachment and see if this meets your needs.

Sparky

Great thanks. Where did this document come from?

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[mark 104]

Quote

Great thanks. Where did this document come from?

C23b, c, and d are two-page letters that refer to specifications contained in NAS-804, AS8015A, and AS8015B respectively. Copies of the TSOs and the specifications are in the Parachute Rigger Handbook starting on page A-19. You can download a copy of the PRH from the FAA website, or go to the web site I cited in an earlier post.

Or are you asking how the document originated?

Mark

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

Great thanks. Where did this document come from?

It came from the FAA. It is their document.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals