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lisamariewillbe

Bad weather, Walmart, Corsets and Happythoughts

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Well, if this is really the case, I stand corrected. I have personally not seen this in my 12 years in skydiving the way you paint the picture, but I could be blind to it I guess.

So, "most" men in skydiving blatantly disrespect women in our sport and take adavtage of them to the point of needing the buddy system? And "most" men in skydiving are not polite or nice?

Guess I can feel lucky to be one of the "exceptions to the rule." Although maybe I am not now, since I am being a drama queen about this.


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Funny how dramatic everyone is because I said Brains was a nice and polite man.



Probably because they have spent more time around me than you have.:D:D:D

It was nice to meet you too Lisa.B|

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

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You should have asked me, LM, and I'd have told you that such a post would start something of a riot.

In 1999, I was still up north, living on the dz, working in manifest, and everyone knows that if there is shit to be given, the manifestor will be the first recipient. I was beat. So when we took a weekend off, and Arizona Airspeed happened to be where we ended up, I made a post about them:


I've been a little sick of skydivers lately--living on the dz isn't bad...but there's no break from the action.

I used to think that skydivers were the most wonderful people in the world. Nowadays, I wonder if there has ever been a bigger bunch of whiners ever born.

[...]

So here's what I can't figure out: are these guys really skydivers? They can't be. It's not possible. They don't whine. They're polite, patient, upbeat and friendly. And even though the weather wasn't the best, I never saw any one of them without a smile.

So now I'm wondering what makes them different? And why can't we all be more like them?


At the time, I was pretty well over it, although I ended up manifesting for another two and a half years more.

Skydivers are just like everyone else--some of the them shitty, some of them stellar, most of them somewhere in between. Adrenaline heightens emotion--good or bad--so one sees a lot of extremes at the dropzone that one may not see in the rest of a person's life.

I took a lot of shit for that post. Not online, where people merely discussed the topic as presented (well, all but one), but in real life, because I'd offended the "folks back home." I still don't know how I feel about that, but I think the wisest comment about the whole issue was made by a friend of mine:

I was at a DZ once and a girl found out my name. She said "no, you can't be Kevin O'Connell, you're too nice". I couldn't decide if I should say thank you, or screw you ;-) This 17 inch diagonal world we visit here is a lousy place to try to understand the whole person. A DZ ain't a whole lot better. Getting off the DZ and seeing people out in the "real world" can actually let you appreciate some assholes.

I do know some people I would not want to be around not because of the opinions they express, but because of the assumptions that underlie those opinions, but most of the time, you get a much different picture of people if you follow Kevin's advice.

And with specific regard to the comment you made, I've found most guys who skydive to be more fun and more interesting than the guys I meet out in the world who don't. I just don't like running into them when I'm on the wrong side of a manifest window.

rl
If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

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Not to mention he is a very polite and nice man, which is not a common trait in skydivers.



Aw, that's a little harsh. There are lots of polite and nice men in skydiving! :)


A little harsh? That's beyond a little harsh that's a slap in the face but not surprising....



Making generalizations like LM did is bound to ruffle a few feathers, but just because a statement is a generalization doesn't mean it is completely lacking in truth. I'm not saying all male skydivers are jerks, but I've been in the sport long enough to see some truth in her statement.

Skydiving is an extraordinary activity that attracts some truly extraordinary people and I feel very privileged to have been many of the people I have met throughout my jumping career. Although, thankfully, the demographics have changed quite a bit over the years, it traditionally has been a sport heavily populated with single men in their twenties. Nothing wrong with that.

When I look back on my behaviors while drinking back then, I feel a bit embarrassed. It's not that I was a full-time asshole, but alcohol generally doesn't bring out the best in people and that was certainly true with me.

When the alcohol flows freely, most people tend to get very free and loose with their words and often tempers flare, feelings get hurt, and all sorts of bad vibes happen. That doesn't mean the people doing all that stuff are bad people, it just means that alcohol ain't always such a good thing.

If LM has experienced a few occasions where alcohol-fueled bad behavior seemed to be the norm and she runs across someone who can be in that environment and not get caught up in it, and she thinks that's a good thing, then I'm all for it.

Does she think I'm a jerk skydiver? I don't know. I hope not. I don't take offense at what she said, though.

Walt

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Well I think I'm a bit of a snob. And an opinionated BOITCH!
.. and I am OK with that!



but you give good hugs, so it all works out.:D



Yeah, and it's been like forever since I have had one! Think you can spare one at Dublin for me, Kitty?:)


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As much as I somewhat agree with what is being said about men.....there are two sides of the coin. I do feel that some of the behavior problems that women encounter at the bonfire is sometimes brought on by themselves. If every man there knows you been with 4 guys the past month and a half, you'll probably have more shots fired your way/ and less respect.(not saying that is right, but)

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Man, I thread-crapped an 'inspirational poem' thread last week and didn't catch this much shit! :D:D Kids these days...

Personally, my self-worth is totally tied to dz.com - if someone here said something bad about me, I'd jump off a bridge.
it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

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If every man there knows you been with 4 guys the past month and a half, you'll probably have more shots fired your way/ and less respect.(not saying that is right, but)



No, it's not right. And it's no one's business who is fucking whom.

If you treat a woman (because this isn't done to men) disrespectfully because of the choices she makes in bed partners and the frequency with which she has sex...

...well, you can just friggin' bite me.

:|

I know this wasn't the issue, and it was only intended as an example, but boy, it is a concept that PISSES ME OFF. >:(>:(

rl
If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

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If you treat a woman (because this isn't done to men) disrespectfully because of the choices she makes in bed partners and the frequency with which she has sex...
...well, you can just friggin' bite me.



Like I said, I don't think it is necessarily right, but it is the way the world works. If you openly hook up with many people in a group, people will form an opinion about that. I know men who will be more aggressive pursuing a woman who has slept with a couple of his friends not caring about any "line" they might be crossing.

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I know this wasn't the issue, and it was only intended as an example, but boy, it is a concept that PISSES ME OFF. >:(>:(



I don't think it is a concept, I think it happens every weekend. What pisses me off is when woman are afraid to say something when people touch or grab them in a inappropiate manner. If they don't mind that is one thing, but.... I think it's sad that people have to run and hide from people cause they can't take an OBVIOUS hint.(male or female) There is definitely a lack of respect in the world sometimes.

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If you treat a woman (because this isn't done to men) disrespectfully because of the choices she makes in bed partners and the frequency with which she has sex...

...well, you can just friggin' bite me.

:|

I know this wasn't the issue, and it was only intended as an example, but boy, it is a concept that PISSES ME OFF. >:(>:(

rl



I can certainly understand the position, even being a male...but, and I have to ask, aren't the 2 issues you're talking about: partners and frequency, indicators of her overall "behavior", or just "behavior" in general? Should these 2 issues be shelved separately, from say, her behavior as it relates to drinking? how about her behavior as it relates to work/job/career?

as horrible as this may seem, i make judgement calls on people based on their behaviors and actions, not on what they look like/sound like. as a result of this, it's pretty easy to see that i might make a judgement about a man or a woman (but since i'm a guy, i tend to pay more attn to women than men...) using their partner choice and frequency as evidence. rather than think of it as labeling her a "slut" or a "prude", shouldn't we be able to look at the behavior and say "she is sexually active/overactive/inactive"?

but here's the kicker - as far as treating someone with respect/disrespect, i completely agree: their choice of partners and frequency really shouldn't have any bearing. problem with that is you're talking about sex, and everyone's feelings toward sex are different. (you've got the religious zealots, the s&m folks, the in-the-middle folks, and so on...) so if i have strong feelings about sex, and i'm looking at the sexual behavior of another woman, it would be naieve to think my strong feelings won't play a major role in determining how i judge her actions/inactions.

i'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying it's the reality. partner choice and frequency are behavior(s) and action(s). i judge people based on behaviors and actions, rather than their looks. sex is a hot topic with most people, and they have strong feelings about the subject. their strong feelings make a noticeable impact on any decision/judgement that is reached.

(you know, i struggled with trying to think of a way to get rid of judge/judgement in this response, as i dont think it really suits well. i'm not trying to say i sit in judgement of others, i'm just trying to say that i make "decisions". i.e. he/she is shy, angry, depressed, etc)

is the can of worms fully open yet? lol.

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No, it's not right. And it's no one's business who is fucking whom.

If you treat a woman (because this isn't done to men) disrespectfully because of the choices she makes in bed partners and the frequency with which she has sex...

...well, you can just friggin' bite me.

:|

I know this wasn't the issue, and it was only intended as an example, but boy, it is a concept that PISSES ME OFF. >:(>:(

rl



wel rhondalea....we definitely agree on this one...i could not have said it better myself...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
my tandem changed my life....i have never done it from behind....and i liked it....

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Rare is different then saying "Brains is the only nice one I have met."


Funks - your a fuck wad, but I love it, the boogie I guess didnt have enough drama so I am making up for it on here... [:/] oh and your nice to just incase you took offence to me saying brains is nice...



Actually in this case I am saying everyone else (besides you) is acting like the flippin drama queens. You make one comment that may be open to interpretation and everyone starts whining.




lol.... correct. that would be the defensive, judgmental, drama queens.

I dont see how anyone could take offense to that unless they were being defensive because they thought to themselves that they might be included in her statement.

fist off, that is being judgmental of her, I cant fucking stand peeps who are judgmental huge pet peave I guess. and second, what does everyone care? if she wants to call you a bad person, or classify you as something, and you take offense of it. you should really look in the mirror and realize who YOU are and stand by yoursef. if you know you not that way, and you know who you are, and you are confident in that, then you shouldn't have to constantly TELL peeps you are such a great, loving , giving person. because if you are, the ones who aren't judgmental will see that, and love/ and care for you for who you are.....

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