Unstable @ Pull Time

[Bodhisattva420 0]

On my last two five second delays I went unstable at pull time. I'm jumping a student rig with a spring loaded pilot chute. My instructor said that I move my head too much when i look for my ripcord and that's probably messing up my arch causing me to go unstable. Should i change my count from arch - arch - look - reach - pull to arch - arch - ARCH - reach - pull? Any advice would be appreciated!

[Liemberg 0]

1. Don't second guess your instructor by seeking advice on the internet for you have no way of knowing the quality of the advice you will get.
2. When you are in a bar and it is "closing time gents" - do you look at your wallet when you pull it out of your pocket?
Right now, when sitting @ the computer reading this, can you feel with your fingers if your wallet is in your pocket or do you have to look?

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[AFFI 0]

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My instructor said...

Should i change my count from arch - arch - look - reach - pull to arch - arch - ARCH - reach - pull? Any advice would be appreciated!

ummmm, houzabout -

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Don't second guess your instructor by seeking advice on the internet for you have no way of knowing the quality of the advice you will get.

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[Bodhisattva420 0]

Well I actually got conflicting advice from my instructors. The jumpmaster told me, "don't pull when your unstable!" and the DZO told me "pull at five or I'm putting your ass back on the static line!"

[billvon 2,400]

Again, your instructor (the one actually working with you) should be the primary source of advice. Many places teach that your top three freefall priorities are (in order) pull, pull at the right altitude, and pull stable. So they both may be giving you similar information, but said in a slightly different way.

Be sure to ask them which is the more important priority if this comes up again.

[CornishChris 5]

Is there any way you could stretch to AFF - this may be the way forward for you?

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[BUBLHED 0]

I jumped a ripcord main for my entire student status. I never once looked at the main ripcord before pulling, now the reserve ripcord is another story. Have a long talk with your instructors they should be able to spot the reason for your instability.

ATTACK LIFE ! IT'S GOING TO KILL YOU ANYWAY!!!!

[davelepka 4]

Here's your probolem - you're looking at the rip cord by moving your whole head/neck/upper body. When you do this, you break the arch, and go unstable.

Practice on the ground at home before your next jump. Stand in a good arch postion, and look toward the ripcord by only moving your head. You end up pivoting your head around the top vertabre in your neck, while keeping the rest of your neck still.

Also, be sure that you're trying to look at it just out of the bottom corner of your right eye. You're not going to be able to look at it head on, or possible even with both eyes.

As fas as your count, stick with what you're trained, but maybe change 'look' to 'look by moving my head only'. Saying it outloud to yourself as you go through the sequence generally helps things to go the way you want.

Ripcords are fun, but they get expensive when you drop them, so hang on tight. Of course when you switch over to hand deploy the last thing you want to do is hang onto your handle....

[justme12001 0]

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1. Don't second guess your instructor by seeking advice on the internet for you have no way of knowing the quality of the advice you will get.
2. When you are in a bar and it is "closing time gents" - do you look at your wallet when you pull it out of your pocket?
Right now, when sitting @ the computer reading this, can you feel with your fingers if your wallet is in your pocket or do you have to look?

I agree completly, the Look part is pretty much outdated as you really cant see the ripcord without de-arching. From my experiance alot of older instructors still say it, and I think it is more out of habit, as it is what they learned on gear when you could see the ripcord. We teach with S/L at our dropzone and we teach arch reach pull

[skyhpp 0]

Dave has hit the nail on the head - concentrate on maintaining a stable body position throughout the opening sequence - this will become even more important as your delays increase and you reach higher freefall speeds (i.e. the effects of a bad body position - going unstable, will be greater).

Ask your instructors for advice on this matter.

Good luck!

[hookitt 0]

Note that I haven't any knowledge of how you went unstable, nor do I know your body position in general.

Remove the look portion of your count. That should not be taught anymore. That is an old method from when ripcords were on the main lift web just opposite the cutaway handle.

What are you looking at? If you look you see the cutaway handle. If you look past the cutaway handle to try and see your main ripcord, de-arch and twist, then you're in for a real treat.

On most rigs you can't see the main ripcord anyway. What can you see with ease? The cutaway. Brand new students have been known to Arch look reach, cutaway, arch.

Practice on the ground. Arch with very positive leg pressure, (legs out but not straight) left hand in front where you can see it. Reach for the ripcord and pull it.

Do that sequence in real time over and over till you have it down. Temp pin the rig so you can practice over and over without launching the main pilot chute.

Good luck

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[hookitt 0]

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1. Don't second guess your instructor by seeking advice on the internet for you have no way of knowing the quality of the advice you will get.
2. When you are in a bar and it is "closing time gents" - do you look at your wallet when you pull it out of your pocket?
Right now, when sitting @ the computer reading this, can you feel with your fingers if your wallet is in your pocket or do you have to look?

Number 2 is actually a really good thought. I didn't read any replies until I posted. I believe his question was worth a second guess though. People teaching the look portion of the sequence should be taught to not include it for a main deployment sequence.

When I first became an instructor, I already knew that looking wasn't a good idea anymore. The way I convinced the old timers was this.

They were sitting around drinking beer discussing my suggestion and laughing at it. I walked by and they asked why I had such an odd opinion so I demonstrated.

Arch, Look... barrel roll, pull...

Silence... a few hmms...

That was on a Saturday night. Sunday morning the look portion was removed. The amount of unstable at pull time incidents decreased immediately.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Bodhisattva420 0]

The ripcord is actually right across from the cutaway handle. I think I'm just bending my neck too much when I'm looking for the ripcord causing me to de-arch. Thanks for all the advice everyone!

[hookitt 0]

Ok. I deleted that possibility from my post not taking consideration that set up is still in use.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Andy9o8 0]

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The ripcord is actually right across from the cutaway handle.

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Ok. I deleted that possibility from my post not taking consideration that set up is still in use.

Which raises the question - does that DZ (is it Skydive Eagles Nest per his profile?) use student gear with the main ripcord on the MLW? If so, why? (e.g., inexpensive mil-surp, etc.)

(And even if it's because they had inexpensive mil-surp available to them, does it really make sense to train students on gear where they're just going to have to re-learn their pull-time muscle memory anyway when they transition to modern sport gear? I'm part of that group that made that transition once upon a time, and I can tell you, for the first few jumps on the new gear, it was all I could do to keep myself from Lutzing the cutaway pillow at pull time.)

Edit:

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(Riggerpaul) Please tell us where your main ripcord is located.
Is it on the main lift web or on or near the bottom of the container?

Just to clarify, my comment re: mil-surp only applies if it's on the MLW. (I looked up the website for the DZ in his profile & can't find any photos of student gear per se.)

[riggerpaul 1]

Wow! Things move fast on this thread.

I just deleted the post you quoted. During the time I was writing, the question was already answered.

By the way, there was at least a generation of sport student gear that had ripcords on the MLW. It isn't necessarily ancient military surplus.

With proper care, some of those rigs might very well still be airworthy.

But that still begs the question of why they haven't been upgraded to a BOC ripcord, which would far better prepare the jumper for gear he will purchase.

[davelepka 4]

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But that still begs the question of why they haven't been upgraded to a BOC ripcord, which would far better prepare the jumper for gear he will purchase.

I learned on a MLW mounted ripcord. The main reason the DZO gave for not switching to BOC or just a hip mounted ripcord (around the time everyone was switching over) was that you could see the ripcord when it was on your chest.

The DZ was heavy on the static line students, and he liked that they could see the handle on dummy ripcord pulls. The idea was that a student would have a hard time finding a handle they coudln't see, but wouldn't have too much trouble transitioning over to BOC once they were off student status.

I'm not sure what they're doing these days. I think it's a combination of rip cord and BOC hand deploy. I do know, that much like the DZ the OP jumps at, they are still rocking the round reserves.

[Bodhisattva420 0]

They have another wings rig with the ripcord at the bottom of the container, similar to the modern systems with throw-out pilot chutes. I'm sure they'll let me jump it sometime before I get my A.

[Andy9o8 0]

Do they also have students wear old Army surplus jump boots?

[GaryRay 0]

i would just quit, its unfix able =D

JewBag.
www.jewbag.wordpress.com

[tkhayes 126]

I believe that 5 second delays are a waste of time. You do not have enough time to feel anything, reach terminal or even half a chance to fix something before it is time to pull.

Most instructors could not do a perfectly stable 5 second delay with the same system, especially out of certain airplanes, like a rear-door 206.

Look at it this way:

"Is the student going to pull?"

No? Then keep them on practice pulls until you are absolutely sure that they will.

Yes? Then let them go do a 10 second delay (at least). You can count to 10 without an altimeter and even if you forgot, by the time you remembered that you forgot, it would be time to pull.

You have time to build up some speed to the point where the arch might actually matter and you have time to get over the 'sensory overload' and maybe even react and think about what is happening.

less than 10 second delays, I have always found them to be ineffective. Either do a 10, or go get into a freefall program like AFF or tandem. You can learn to freefall without freefalling.....

And yes, you can't learn how to skydive on the internet either....

[skydude2000 3]

I'm just wondering, but would that be a concern at all with an emergency exit though?

Obviously pulling, and getting out as quickly as possible is the #1 priority, but would exiting the aircraft in a stable pull position be important in that situation?

PULL!! or DIE!!

[MarkM 0]

I had a lot of problems with stability during pull time. Hanging exits from a Cessna, chest mounted ripcord. Would look, de-arch, flip, etc etc. Even had one deploy that went up through my legs and had me hanging upside down in the harness when the chute deployed.

The only thing that helped me was... practice practice practice while on the ground. I did hundreds of practice pulls in a swimming pool. Hang from the edge of the pool floating in the water, push off, reach, pull, repeat.

When I was jumping from the plane I was so amped up I couldn't "think" my way through the pull sequence. I'd mess up, and not even remember way. Sensory overload. So I just trained my body to react the proper way.

Sort of like driving a car. You don't think "lift foot, move foot to brake pedal, press foot down" to stop. You just think "stop" and your body knows what to do since you've done it so many times before. You just repeat something enough times and it gets trained into you. Muscle memory.

[Andy9o8 0]

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I believe that 5 second delays are a waste of time. You do not have enough time to feel anything, reach terminal or even half a chance to fix something before it is time to pull.

Cripes, where were you 30 years ago when I needed you?
A whole generation of S/L progression students stuck forever on 5 sec. delays thanks to that shit. I still have the emotional scars.

[tkhayes 126]

30 years ago, I WAS that student. Rob Laidlaw (Skydive U) taught the 10 second rule if they were going to pull - and I took that with me throughout my instructional career.

Rob piloted a lot of other controversial and progressive stuff as well. Most of it worked fine.

And the post about the emergency exits? Well, it's an emergency. get out and pull. If you are unsure about ANYTHING - use the reserve. Never be afraid to pull the silver handle for any reason.