Line twists issue

[chrismgtis 0]

I have been having line twists on opening lately for several weeks. Some are pretty mild, and I get thrown out of the line twists on opening and a few I've had to kick out. I'm pretty sure that the issue is caused by my pack job, although it only started happening in the last few weeks.

I've let highly experienced jumpers watch me pack, asked instructors and other jumpers what might cause the problem, had other people pack my canopy to see if the same problem occurred, etc.

Last week I had another jumper pack for me and didn't get a line twist on that jump.

Everyone seems to think that I'm doing everything the way that I should. We have also checked the steering lines and they were twisted a little bit, but not enough to cause a problem. I don't believe that I'm dipping my shoulder or anything at pull time. I think that it might be how I am stowing the lines or putting the bag in the container.

I've noticed that when I pack I usually have a few lines with slack in them after they cascade out, one of the lines in the cascade will have some slack and I noticed last week that when I had all the lines stowed one side was longer than the other, making the bag lop sided, but I had never noticed this before.

Looking for more suggestions. I might get someone to jump my pack job and see if the same thing happens.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[darkwing 4]

Do you have a sense if the twists are happening (or initiating) before the canopy comes out of the bag, or after? If after I'd tend to blame body position, if before I'd tend to blame bag extraction, although there can be co-mingling of causes. Also, don't be too quick to blame or exonerate based on one good or bad opening.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[dragon2 0]

Is your harness straight? Legstraps even, slipping legstrap hardware?

Best bet is to let someone else jump it. If you still have the problem then, try putting it in another rig.

What canopy is it, what wingloading, how many jumps on the lineset?

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[2shay 0]

instead of laying your bag on its back you should stand it up that may help, I know it stopped my issues.

don't try your bullshit with me!!!

[tdog 0]

Trade rigs with a friend for two or three jumps... Do you get twists on his rig, and he has great openings on yours? To make this test valid, you pack your rig, he packs his.

If the twists follow the gear, then:

Take your canopy and make sure each symmetric line pair is exactly the same length, by grabbing the outermost "A" on each side and holding them tight at the harness and having your friend hold them tight at the canopy and checking for length. Then move in a line. Then another. Then repeat starting on the outer of the B. Then C. Then D. Then steering (with the brakes stowed as that is the setting at deployment).

If all your lines are the same length - then consider trim in general. I have seen canopies with bad trim do real unexpected things (hard openings, soft openings, spin openings, etc)

Maybe hire a packer to pack to see if it is your packing. Or pack your friends rig when he packs yours.

If the twists follow the user:

Have someone video your openings, a tandem video guy knows how to be close without hurting ya.

[Missingparts 0]

I'm glad my pack job worked I'll be out this weekend maybe we can figure something out!

[Kiki32 1]

Im having the same problems. Could be because Im always looking at the ground when I pull.

Poetry don't work on whores.

[chuck411 0]

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Could be because Im always looking at the ground when I pull.

LOL I did that for my first 100 jumps and a little beyond.. I was always fascinated by how fast things get as your falling towards them:) MAkes for crappy openings and some that slam to crap out of you! especially with a canopy that has any tendancy to open brisk or slam you dont want to be in a slightly head down when it decides to slam!

[Jon26 0]

Hey man, It sounds like you could have found the source of your problem already. The lines should always be even in length from either riser to the d-bag whilst stowing. If you are getting slack in some of the lines then either there is a problem with the way you are stowing each bite, there is too much slack between the stows or, (i'm betting) the risers aren't coming level from the container when you are packing.
Try using a pack mat if you can, so you can fasten the risers together and make sure all the lines are equal side to side from the very start of your pack job.
Also, make sure the brakes are stowed correctly. I doubt this is where the problem is happening but it's a possibility.
Always tidy up the risers and lay them out tidily before you start.

Hope this might help. And, don't let my jump numbers fool you. I pack tandems in a really busy DZ for work :)

[bob.dino 0]

- Number of jumps on lineset?
- Condition of (& number of jumps on) pilot chute?
- How much free line between last stow and top of risers.

[hackish 8]

I was getting frustrated at this sabre 210. I had nasty line twists a few times in a row. Things did not seem to be looking good. Some of the old-timers at the DZ suggested that most linetwists were probably coming from the position during deployment. Specifically my legs. Today I spent time concentrating on that. Had 3 very successful and satisfying jumps with no linetwist. As soon as I forgot to check the position of my legs during deployment that ugly linetwist reared its head again. Just my (limited) experience.

-Michael

[chrismgtis 0]

Quote

- Number of jumps on lineset?
- Condition of (& number of jumps on) pilot chute?
- How much free line between last stow and top of risers.

New pilot chute as of about 40 or so jumps ago.

Can't tell you exactly on the line length. Less than 2 feet. I've used short line and longer. Didn't really make a difference than I can tell for sure.

I'm almost sure that it's due to the difference in length of the lines from one riser compared to the other. That and I think I've developed a bad folding habit somewhere. I'm working on it though.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[DSE 3]

The first rig I purchased (an Eclipse) had a corner in the pack tray where the riser tray wasn't fully sewn down. If I wasn't very careful about stowing lines, the lines would catch on this corner during deployment and twist every time. Took a couple dozen jumps and some help here on DZ.com before the actual problem was discovered.

[jee 0]

Quote

Looking for more suggestions. I might get someone to jump my pack job and see if the same thing happens.

A trick Brian Germain taught me: Try about 3 feet of free line between the last stow and the risers. This worked for me. He says it gives the bag a chance to get out of the container before the forces of the lines unstowing affect the position of the bag.
Also, when packing, make sure when you are done stowing the lines and move the d-bag you don't put a twist in the lines in the movement. In other words when you move the d-bag from above the container to below the container pick it straight up, move it straight down and set it straight on the floor. There was a girl at my dropzone that had line twist on every opening. I notice when she moved the d-bag she put a twist in the lines. Since that correction her opening have been great.

[lauraliscious 0]

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I'm almost sure that it's due to the difference in length of the lines from one riser compared to the other.

I tie my big rings from my 3 ring assembly together with my pull up cord after stowing my brakes and before starting to flake the canopy. I untie it right before putting the bag in the container. It work sreally well to keep the risers even while packing and stowing the lines, as long as you're using a packing weight. I RARELY have line twists and I don't have to go hunting for a pull-up cord in the middle of my pack job.

Enemiga Rodriguez, PMS #369, OrFun #25, Team Dirty Sanchez #116, Pelt Head #29, Muff #4091

[drjump 0]

Another possible problem might be that you are packing the twists with your line stows! As you grasp the lines to pull towards the bag, for the next stow, be careful that you are not rotating your wrist or hand. The line that is on top of the first stow should be able to be traced from one stow to the last stow without twisting around or under.

[hookitt 0]

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Another possible problem might be that you are packing the twists with your line stows!

Not unless the bag is being rotated as well.

--- ----

The following is just possibility. It may or may not have anything to do with the line twists problem.

Throwing aggressively, watching the pilot chute, and grabbing risers are one of the most common reasons line twists and unusual openings occur.

Keep the legs slightly extended, throw the pc by just pulling the pc out to arm extension and let go ... all in one quick smooth motion.

Stay neutral, and fairly relaxed. (keep heading and don't be rigid) As soon as the canopy starts to pull you up right put the legs together and don't disturb the risers.

"Helping" the canopy open has caused many problems including line twisting spiraling malfunctions. A good example is a long time jumper (20 years in the sport) at our DZ that was having a lot of trouble with her new canopy, even after 100 jumps. I jumped it all day with no issues. The trouble she was having went away immediately when she used the suggestions above.

Hope that helps.

Good luck

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[chrismgtis 0]

I think I did a better job of stowing the lines on my last pack job this weekend, so I'll see this Saturday when I jump. I still need to work on getting the canopy in the bag better though. Another jumper, Mike, gave me some pointers (tying the rings together,etc) and I tried that.

I noticed that the lines did look better once I had them stowed, but I also need to start pulling the lines down from the container and then stowing them, instead of pulling them from the last stow to keep them straight.

Other than that, I think I'm doing a great job. Somehow I keep seeing the bridle (the part inside the bag) on top of the canopy once it's in the bag. I'm not sure how big of a potential problem this is though. When I first started packing this didn't happen, so I picked up a bad habit somewhere in the midst of trying to learn to put the canopy in the bag.

I've gotten used to doing everything well except for that. At first flaking was the hardest part to me. Having a new canopy, getting in the bag became the problem. It's a hell of a job to get the canopy small enough to fit in the bag, hold it down and pull the corners of the bag under it without letting the canopy inflate.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan