What's Forever For Anymore?

[PLFXpert 0]

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Can someone please tell me some happy, long term stories and make forever seem real again?

We've been together 6 years--still madly in love, best friends, great team.

I'll check back in, in another 40 years and keep you posted. I know we'll still be together. Neither of is going anywhere the other isn't going. I don't know how to describe how I know that--just do, without a doubt.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[PLFXpert 0]

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What if your spouse were mentally and/or physically incapacitated but you weren't willing to desert them? I certainly wouldn't fault someone for going outside the marriage while otherwise remaining loyal to their incapacitated spouse

There's always a hypothetical, isn't there?

I don't think I would do that---Afterall, as horny as I was/am I stayed a virgin until I was 20 years old (and met Billy). Do NOT underestimate the power & satisfaction of self-pleasure, Walt.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[boinky 0]

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I'll check back in, in another 40 years and keep you posted

[B]

Nina

Are we called "DAWGs" because we stick our noses up people's butts? (RIP Buzz)
Yep, you're a postwhore-billyvance

[waltappel 1]

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There's always a hypothetical, isn't there?

Having seen people in that situation, it seems beyond the mere hypothetical to me. It's not a matter of me trying to rationalize cheating, but to put some food for thought out there.

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I don't think I would do that---Afterall, as horny as I was I stayed a virgin until I was 20 years old (and met Billy). Do NOT underestimate the power & satisfaction of self-pleasure, Walt.

The power & satisfaction of self-pleasure. Hmmmmm......that kind of loses its luster after a while but yes, it's *far* better than nothing.

Walt

[Douva 0]

Here are pictures of one couple I expect to go the distance. It's my little sister and my new brother-in-law. They got married last night.

Here is the video presentation I made for their rehearsal dinner, if anyone wants to see it.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Icon134 0]

As much as I hate to say it... Dating is an important skill to have... I'm not suggesting that people sleep with one another...

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Teens can learn how to build relationships with people of the opposite sex, without having to date. Relational skills are built in one form or another, but one does not need to be dating someone to build those skills.

I agree with you to a point... but I think intimate relationships require skills that aren't often learned until you are in an intimate relationship...

of course what do I know... I'm only 31 and have never been in a serious relationship... but I also don't date...

edited to add... this post doesn't really sound right to me... if like the rest of my posts y'all want to ignore it... that'd be fine..

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[jloirsdaan2 0]

I haven't been married that long either, six years in December. We've been together for seven, but we met in high school. And got married just after I graduated. He's younger than I am, so people usually have lots to say about that. What I tell them though, look at the divorce rate in the country now. Ok...and I've been married since i was 18 and he was 16... and we're still great together. We now have two beautiful children and are still madly in love. We've had arguments, but it's usually about which movie to get that night or which restaurant to go to on our date night. But...we're best friends, what can I say? My parents have been married for quite a while also. My dad is 62 now and my mom is 15 years younger than him. Got married when my mom was 19, they just renewed their vows about two years ago. So...keep hanging on. It's worth it.


edit to add: this is her husband....edited because she can't capitalize things and that just bothers me .

Lisa

I'm not a packer. I'm a parachute compression technician!

[shaiziel 0]

The 7 essential elements of a healthy, long-term relationship.

Love - A deep, tender, ineffable feeling of affection and solicitude toward a person, such as that arising from kinship, recognition of attractive qualities, or a sense of underlying oneness.

Respect - A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem

Honesty - Truthfulness; sincerity

Trust - Firm reliance on the integrity, ability, or character of a person

Intimacy - (couldn't find a good definition here, but we all know at least part of what it entails)

Compassion - Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it

Commitment - The state of being bound emotionally and/or intellectually to a course of action or to another person or persons

But more importantly, these things are only at their highest level of effectiveness when they are shared mutually. And by definition, in a marriage, mutuality should be present, of course we see the times when it's not.

It is important to remember that love, by itself, cannot keep people together. Love is not all those things. Love is powerful but it is not strong. It's fragile and beautiful. That's where these other things come in to play. Those times when the two of you are upset with each other, when the struggles in life put your love for the other in the shadows, those are the reasons you need more than just love.

But don't listen to me. I've never been in a serious relationship so I'm no authority.

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6.8% - Almost there!

[ChrisL 2]

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I don't think it's always that simple, but I've never been married.

Actually it is just that simple. Right is right and wrong is wrong and a vow is a vow and forever means forever.

We do not qualify our vows by saying:

"I will be faithful to you alone until we are parted by death, or unless one of the following circumstances arise..."

We make a solemn oath. Its inviolate, like it or not.

Nobody ever said that living according to a code was easy. Its frequently anything BUT easy.

It does have its own rewards though, which in my opinion are worth the sacrifice.

If my wife were to become mentally or physically incapacitated that would be very unfortunate for us both, but it does not release me from my vow.

Even if she didnt mind if I strayed. Even if she cheated on me first.

All those circumstances are irrelevant.

None of those things change the fact. My vow is MINE.
My sense of honor and self respect are mine alone.

Its also not about whether or not other people are hurt by my actions
(although that does matter)

If I cheat, it diminishes me in ways that I am not willing to be diminished.

It really is that simple

__

My mighty steed

[PLFXpert 0]

I like you.

To each their own--I would agree for myself, with what you said, but it's only fair to hold myself to my morals/beliefs and not others.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[Rick 67]

We will celebrate our 24th anniversary next month
commitment, honesty , communication of course all these are necessary but honestly I think we just got lucky. People change over time and if you are lucky you will grow and change in the same direction.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[PLFXpert 0]

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The power & satisfaction of self-pleasure. Hmmmmm......that kind of loses its luster after a while

Walt, Walt Walt.

You really sound as if you value sex more than love.

I would rather never betray my love and live w/out sex than the opposite. Love is a far different (and imo, far better) thing than sex. I LOVE sex. But, I would never trade love for it. Never. And I don't think I would enjoy it as much w/out being in love. Even if my man went paralyzed from the neck down and had no muscular function there anymore, I'd still have his love, and that's SO much for valuable to me.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[bbarnhouse 0]

Wow shaiziel...just wow.

[Nightingale 0]

People forget that a relationship takes work. It takes work from both sides, and compromise from both sides. If both people are putting in an equal amount of work, the relationship's got a good chance of success, or at the very least, a parting on good terms and a realization that, although each side gave their best, sometimes things just don't work out. Sometimes life goals are incompatible, but hopefully this has been discussed before the marriage, although goals do sometimes change. It's a lot less emotionally damaging and draining when you know that each of you has tried, but it just didn't work.

When I've seen friends divorce, it's because of a few things, but it usually seems to be that somebody's decided they don't want to work at the relationship anymore. It seems that the marriage was unequal, with one partner always giving and the other never compromising, and the first partner gets fed up or the second partner gets bored.

Also, I think a lot of people divorce too soon, walking away from relationships that they could've saved, had both sides made the effort. When a divorce happens, it should really be a last resort and an acknowledgement that, while you've done your very best and given it your all, that things just won't work. I think marriage counseling is very, very important in the process, because it can rebuild broken communication, or build communication and understanding that was never there to begin with. Best case, you save the relationship. Worst case, you learn how to make the separation as painless as possible and not put your kids in the middle of your mess.

Sometimes, you've just married the wrong person, or something's happened (death of a child, for example) that rips a family apart instead of making it stronger. Sometimes divorce is really unavoidable, but sometimes divorce is from a lack of effort or lack of respect for the relationship, sometimes the party who is trying and is respecting the relationship gets sick of trying, sometimes the party who isn't trying decides that they want their freedom. A lot of those divorces could probably be avoided, but one or both parties are hurt, angry, and resentful, and don't want to put in the effort, for whatever reason.

Relationships are a matter of individual choice, and so is marriage. I don't really care about the divorce rate and "preserving families" and all that crap. Ultimately, you've got to make the decision that's right for you and right for your family, and try your hardest to keep your children out of your mess and do what's best for them, whether you choose to stay together or not.

[waltappel 1]

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Walt, Walt Walt.

You really sound as if you value sex more than love.

Not at all. The discussion is about the hollowness that the vow to "love forever" seems to be taking on these days and how it is often destroyed by infidelity.

I brought up a situation I have witnessed, where I wondered how I would react--the situation where a spouse is mentally and/or physically incapacitated and the conflict between love and devotion and fidelity arose. I don't think I have it in me to condemn someone who, faced with that situation, had sex outside of the marriage but stayed devoted to their disable spouse in every other way.

I don't think that means I value love less than sex. If anything, I think it means that I see the possibility of there being a separation of sex and love and an unequal priority between the two in that scenario. I have no idea how I would react and I hope I'm never faced with that.

Given the choice between love and sex, I'm pretty sure my choice would be love.

Walt

[shaiziel 0]

Actually this reminds me. Not only should those things be mutual between each other, but you should have the things like love, respect, and commitment for yourself, the relationship between the two of you, AND the other person.

Details details I know. But I think it's important.

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6.8% - Almost there!

[Nightingale 0]

Some happy stories from my family:

My mom's parents were married young, had six children, and raised them well. My grandfather died 26 years ago, but his presence is very much felt. My grandmother never remarried and still wears her wedding ring, and there's pictures of the two of them all over the house. From what my mother tells me, my grandparents got in some major fights, but always worked it out, probably mostly by sheer determination. They were both strong and willful people, but directed that strength and willpower into preserving their relationship rather than destroying it. My grandmother still gets misty-eyed sometimes when she talks about him, and she makes sure that all her grandkids know all about Grandpa Bob, even though I'm the only one who actually got to meet him. There are lots of little things that will bring back a memory for her, and we'll see that wistful smile and know she's thinking about him. A few years back, at Thanksgiving, my uncle and I were at the piano. He was playing and I was singing. He'd dug up one of my Irish songbooks and picked a tune fairly randomly. When we'd finished, my grandmother had tears in her eyes and said "I wish your grandfather could hear you. That was his favorite song." I still can't sing The Patriot Game without thinking about Grandpa.

My dad's parents are about to celebrate their 60th anniversary. They got married when my grandpa got home from WWII, and were sweethearts before that. They had two children and lived in New York City, where my grandfather worked in insurance. He was transferred to the west coast, and they settled in Pasadena. At some point, my grandmother lost a baby very late term, which was devastating, but in my family, it's our tradition that during rough times, you put aside your differences and lend a shoulder. Their relationship emerged stronger than ever. They've been through many medical problems in the last decade, from knee replacements to pneumonia, but I don't think it's ever occurred to them to do anything other than support each other through sickness and health.

My dad got a scholarship to Notre Dame, but turned it down because he'd just met my mom, and he knew he wanted to be with her. He went to Loyola University because he knew my mom would be going to Marymount College, and that the schools would be merging in two years. My mom was just entering her senior year of college when they got married, and my dad had just graduated. He got a new job a week before their wedding, and very timidly had to ask for two days off for a honeymoon. They drove up to Santa Barbara and stayed at the best hotel they could afford, which wasn't much. My parents really wanted kids, and found out that it was unlikely for them to conceive without medical intervention, so, instead of letting fertility issues cause them problems, they immediately applied for adoption, and adopted me three days before christmas, 1978. I am still slightly ticked off at whoever stuck a giant bow on my head, put me under the christmas tree and took my picture. Two years later, they adopted my brother, a few weeks after christmas, so he wasn't subjected to such a humiliating photo op. My mom had worked as a med tech, but gave up her job when they got me. She started working again as a teacher when my brother entered pre-school. Family has always been their number one priority. Everything else is second. My dad's not the easiest guy to get along with, and he's got a hard time expressing his feelings, but my mom's learned to read his unspoken language and knows that when he does something like taking her car out and filling the gas tank and changing the oil so she doesn't have to worry, he's telling her he loves her. He likes to take care of her, and my brother and I, as a way to tell us how much he cares, and my mom accepts that with grace and understands that he's telling her the best way he knows how. My mom did get pregnant when I was 14, a complete surprise. Unfortunately, she also lost the baby late term, at 8 months. Stuff like that can tear families apart. It was the first time I've ever seen my dad cry, but instead of turning away from each other and the family, they turned towards each other and offered support and kindness even though they were both devastated, and every so often, they'll visit the baby's grave together. They've been married almost 38 years now. They never hid their arguments from us kids; they wanted us to know that marriage has ups and downs, and that's normal. My parents have a very strong relationship, and it's because they both have a very strong work ethic when it comes to the relationship.

[ChrisL 2]

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I like you.

To each their own--I would agree for myself, with what you said, but it's only fair to hold myself to my morals/beliefs and not others.

Absolutely. This is the standard I hold myself to
I dont have the power to hold anyone else to it.

I do have my opinions about those that have a differing point of view though

__

My mighty steed

[NWFlyer 2]

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I am still slightly ticked off at whoever stuck a giant bow on my head, put me under the christmas tree and took my picture.

You mean you don't recreate that photo every Christmas?

Great stories from your family, Kris. Sounds like our families have a lot in common... my grandparents also had strong, long-lasting marriages.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Jaden 0]

Right on & very well said. Thanks!

[Jaden 0]

Exactly...Sounds like you have a great family. Have a good one.

[happythoughts 0]

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1a) Love one another, and be lovable for one another;
1b) Respect one another and be worthy of one another's respect."

So... in paragraph 1a, the party of the first part recognizes the "lovability" of the party of the second part, as defined in sub-definition 8b?


Actually, I recognize those exact words from the refrain in a Marvin Gaye song. How romantic.

[happythoughts 0]

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We will celebrate our 24th anniversary next month
commitment, honesty , communication of course all these are necessary but honestly I think we just got lucky. People change over time and if you are lucky you will grow and change in the same direction.

Part of the reason that it works is that you two are just nice people. (Nothing that I haven't said before.)
I agree with the lucky part. I just wanted to add "rare".

That hardest part of your marriage, must be D. putting up with your goofy friends.

[swedishcelt 0]

I am not the woman for you on this.

[happythoughts 0]

Forever still exists. The question is the quality, not the quantity.

If you discover that you are unhappy, how much longer do you feel that you should be in a bad situation ? You should be in emotional jail forever ? Another 15 years until it becomes unbearable, or just until you no longer want happiness ?

Like any problem, some have solutions and some do not. Divorce is the solution in some cases.

Another facet of the problem is determining the source of the problem.

All contracts have rules and responsibilities. The problem with permanent marriage is that it gives carte blanche approval to intolerable behavior.