micro 0 #26 August 21, 2006 michele, congrats once again... like I said before, you deserve it. now drive that f*cker out to illinois, no more flyin! I wanna drive it! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpjunkie2004 0 #27 August 21, 2006 Awesome Car! Congrats!Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weegegirl 2 #28 August 21, 2006 How do you find out how much the dealer paid? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hooked 0 #29 August 21, 2006 This is a very nice car, and I bet you look great sitting in the driver's side!!! Be careful out there, and I'm just a little envious! -------------------------------------- Sometimes we're just being Humans.....But we're always Human Beings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #30 August 21, 2006 QuoteHow do you find out how much the dealer paid? go to www.kbb.com go to the used car value section and find your car and select "Trade in Value" instead of the Private party or retail value section.I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #31 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteHow do you find out how much the dealer paid? go to www.kbb.com go to the used car value section and find your car and select "Trade in Value" instead of the Private party or retail value section. Thats the price. Its not what that particular dealer paid for that car. Not sure what Michele meant.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #32 August 21, 2006 true but they aren't gonna vary that much from it. I went to a nissan dealership not long ago and they used kbb right in front of me to tell me what my trade was worth. honda did the same thing. I'm waiting for the Civic Si Sedan to come out and then i'm gonna get me a new car.I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #33 August 21, 2006 KBB.com is the LEAST accuarate site for Car Values. IT is HEAVILY scewed towards the dealers in what the cliam is Trade-in Value (Usually very low compared to national average) and Dealer Retail (Very High Compared to National Average). A MUCH better site to use is www.Edmunds.com and get the TMV of the car. Edmunds also has information on actual Dealer Invoice for new cars as well and Dealer Hold Backs and other Factory incentives for new cars. KBB does not show you all 3 Prices side by side (Trade In, Private Party and Dealer Retail) because then you see the HUGE differances. Edmunds site does show you all this information side by side and has much more accurate information. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #34 August 21, 2006 QuoteKBB.com is the LEAST accuarate site for Car Values. IT is HEAVILY scewed towards the dealers in what the cliam is Trade-in Value (Usually very low compared to national average) and Dealer Retail (Very High Compared to National Average). A MUCH better site to use is www.Edmunds.com and get the TMV of the car. Edmunds also has information on actual Dealer Invoice for new cars as well and Dealer Hold Backs and other Factory incentives for new cars. KBB does not show you all 3 Prices side by side (Trade In, Private Party and Dealer Retail) because then you see the HUGE differances. Edmunds site does show you all this information side by side and has much more accurate information. ah dammit, you beat me to it! edmunds is what i always use too... I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #35 August 21, 2006 See.. with a ride like that you SOOOOOO need to head up the coast hwy and visit the Pacific Northwest.. before it becomes the Pacific NorthWET Just throw your rig in the "trunk"...pack light Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #36 August 21, 2006 QuoteThats the price. Its not what that particular dealer paid for that car. Not sure what Michele meant. Sorry if I was unclear. I did my homework, and really researched the car. Read tons of reviews, not just from places like MotorTrend, but also Epinions.com, Edmunds.com, and lurked some boards about the S2000 to get an idea of what issues the car might have (this is one clean, well designed machine; had a hard time finding issues across the board with it. And it's got a 10/10 stars on the government crash test front and side...). As stated, Kelly Blue Book is the best place for pricing a car. No, it's not necessarily what the dealer paid for it, but it really gives a great starting point. What I did was do the KBB thing to determine what the trade in value was, then I looked at local dealerships with an S2000 on their lot via cars.com, autotrader.com, recycler.com, and Edmunds.com; certified pre-owned only, or existing warranty still in place. I compared what dealers were were asking, and came up with an average. I compared both nationally as well as locally, because that gives one a good idea as to what the car is worth, and in which market it gets a premium (this car, for example, doesn't sell well in North Dakota...but does wonderfully in So Ca.). Then I went back to KBB and checked out what this would go for via a private party. Did the whole circuit of sites again, with that as the basis this time (private party sales). The information I came up with is that a dealer would've paid somewhere between $21-23K, and probably put in about $1000 to spiffy it up (oil change, verification of parts and such, and other little things [i.e. detailing, replacing little things like the stereo cover, gear shift knob], and so on). Allowed about $500 for that, figured in about 5% for commission (low, but I didn't know that then), and came up with about $24-$26K as a realistic asking price from a dealer with existing warranty. So when the negotiations started, I had a pretty good idea as to what they were out, the cost of selling the car, and what I could/would pay pay. The rest was just working the sales guy down to what I could afford, while still allowing them profit. And then I joked, teased, and played with everyone, so that they wanted to see me get the car. I had also done my homework (similar to above) on what my car was worth, and traded that in. 'Course, it was close to a wash (it needed about as much work as it was worth, and I knew they would likely wholesale it out for parts...). So I had that info in my pocket, too. The negotiations were fun, relatively easy, and I never once doubted I would either get the price I wanted or I would walk. Took about 90 minutes, and I stayed in control of the conversation the entire time. In the beginning of the conversation, I told him I knew about what he had paid. He didn't believe me, so I told him he had paid somewhere between $21-22K. He switched screens, and showed me what they had paid: $21,600. Him realizing that I knew what I was talking about gave me an edge, and also gave me the confidence that the research I had done was accurate and correct...which of course gave me the upper hand in the talks. And towards the end, when he told me that "convertible season" was close to ending, and I replied that "you don't want this car sitting on your lot for the next four months, do you?" I knew I'd get the deal I wanted, and all that was left was the real work. Then he came up with cents on the deal, and that was the final clue he was at the end of his negotiation leeway. I agreed to $25,005.52, and then, when I was doing the paperwork with the finance guy, and he was trying to sell me other things, I bluntly told him I was already over my budget by $5.52, so unless he was giving me free stuff, he could stop trying to sell stuff. So he worked the numbers, and gave me an additional $230ish off; told me it was gas money for the next few months. Like I said, it's fun for me. I realize it's not fun for the majority of people, but for me, having been in sales for a long time, closing is closing and doesn't matter what the item is or who the sales guy is. Closing is closing. Anyway, that's the long story of how I arrived at my price. And of course, the other side of it was knowing what I would pay in insurance (surprisingly low...), registration, and what my budget would allow me to pay. Everything else was just getting the deal I could handle, taking a car off their lot so they could move inventory, and having fun with people that I saw from the beginning as friends and not enemies. They have a job to do, I have a job to do, and we can have fun while doing it. And yes, I'm having a ball with that car. It's an amazing machine...and I am indeed blessed in being able to get it, drive it, and love it. And how proud I was with Dad in the car with me; he adores it. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #37 August 21, 2006 QuoteHe switched screens, and showed me what they had paid: $21,600 Quotehe told me that "convertible season" was close to ending What a dumbass! Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #38 August 21, 2006 QuoteAs stated, Kelly Blue Book is the best place for pricing a car. Im curious, why do you believe that?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #39 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteHe switched screens, and showed me what they had paid: $21,600 Quotehe told me that "convertible season" was close to ending What a dumbass! Boy, isn't THAT the truth! Michele, you are a GEM, my friend. A true gem. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #40 August 21, 2006 Agreed, Remi. However, it's also the negotiation techniques...apparently, he doesn't show the screen to people, but did for me. He's the top closer, so I assume he knows what he's doing. But when a closer gets closed by a closer, it can be tough. LOL! Like I said, we had an audience of other sales people and closers, as well as customers. Me? That poses no problems. Might have made him nervous, so he let things slip. LOLOL! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #41 August 21, 2006 QuoteIm curious, why do you believe that?? Because it's the source many, many people deal with, and it also proved accurate when I used it here. As I said, I used many sources, and they all confirmed that for this car, KBB was accurate. I used it as a starting point, a rough estimate as to what I could expect in the different sales areas (trade in, private, and evaluation). I also know insurance agents use it a great deal to assess the car, so it's the industry standard. Again, it was the starting point, and it served me well, don't you think? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #42 August 21, 2006 QuoteMichele, you are a GEM, my friend. A true gem. The story of the negotiations spread; by the time I had it up to the mechanics for the pre-sale inspection (at the dealership, but my Dad's mechanic and a great man), he was telling me the story. And when I went to pick up the car, other sales people were there, congratulating me and again, reiterating the job offer. The GM came by and asked me if I was going to get my license and work for them, too...and keep in mind, this is a huge dealership. New and used, two locations. LOLOLOL! Even the story of running out of gas during the test drive was already circulating. Shoot, one guy who I'd not had any dealings with brought me over a two scoop banana split, to make up for "having to be in the hot sun when you were out of gas..." I didn't bother to tell him we ran out of gas across the street from a gas station, and I had more than enough help getting the car across the street... And again, I had fun. That might've been the difference...I was having a ball. And so were they. I've had emails from the sales people telling me how much fun they had...after I had picked up the car. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cocheese 0 #43 August 21, 2006 Will you take me for a ride up to Big Sur? Then the Redwoods, then ..... ( yes I'm asking for a date.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derekbox 0 #44 August 21, 2006 That is just a kick ass lil story. Congrats. ;) Im car shopping now... shit if I was half the closer you were Id be a much wealthier person... I think 97% of ppl spend way more than they need to most of the time. ;) 2004 GTO 6spd is what Im looking at.... *grrr* ;) Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,672 #45 August 21, 2006 What's with the license plate?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #46 August 21, 2006 Cocheese, the next time you're in So CA, let me know. I need to get to Big Sur and then the redwoods, too...haven't been in years. So let me know, and I'll be happy to drop my top and go play. QuoteWhat's with the license plate? Gaussian blur 7.4 percent. What, you think I'm going to put out my car license plate for anyone to track me? I already have a weirdo stalking me (haven't heard from him in several years, thank God...), and I don't need another. Michael, you're right. Those are cool shots - which is why I stuck them up. Took them on Saturday, processed them yesterday, and voila - a brochure quality shot. I love my camera... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #47 August 21, 2006 QuoteHonda's rock...all of them...but the S2000 sizzles. Remember to be nice to it and rev that engine often, it's not going to enjoy living around town being short-shifted at 3-5000 rpm. Just be ready when the valve timing changes! You are sooooo not kidding. I locked the seatbelt on takeoff already. Made me laugh hysterically; apparently, that car does 0-60 in 5.6, or so I've been told. Gorgeous acceleration, and did me proud when passing a car yesterday - left him gawking. LOL! Amazing acceleration for a 4 cylinder. Literally amazing. ***Congratulations--that really is a beautiful car! Walt, I love this car. I feel like the Geico commercial "she loves her car, like her own husband" (paraphrasing...and I'm not married, either. So, meh, whatever, but it is indeed a delightful car). It is gorgeous, and indeed, as Triple F said, a sex toy.Me is indeed happy. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #48 August 21, 2006 QuoteIm car shopping now... shit if I was half the closer you were Id be a much wealthier person... I think 97% of ppl spend way more than they need to most of the time. ;) If you're in my area, I'll be happy to help you get the car you want...just let me know. But do your research, get all the reviews and info you can, and know what you will pay. And be able to walk away when it gets hairy. You're right - lots of people pay way too much for a used car; new, too, for that matter. My dad got badly screwed by the same dealership, because he didn't take me with him. But he learned - and swears he won't negotiate anything without me around again. LOL! (And yes, when I found out what happened to Pop, I went in and renegotiated for him; didn't get the best deal, but got money back into his pocket for him...and that was good.). Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GARYC24 3 #49 August 21, 2006 Very nice car! Almost makes me want to get one, but love trucks. Also, love the background shots, looks close to home. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #50 August 21, 2006 Malibu, Gary. Just off a drive over the old Mulholland...to Ventura county line on Saturday. Perfect location for a So Ca car shot, you know? Background - Pacific ocean...Malibu...it's why we love convertibles in So Ca... This car isn't for everyone. It's barely for me. But it will be just fine for the next few years... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
