Moving Violations... Fight them or Accept Them?

[NWFlyer 2]

I'm really curious about this ... I see a lot of people on here talking about fighting speeding tickets and other moving violations... very few people seem willing to say "yep, I made a mistake and it's time to pay for it."

I'm wondering if there's shades of gray around this for some people? I will admit that I have actually tried to get out of speeding tickets myself (only once and unsuccessfully - I never bothered to hire a lawyer or anything).

My attitude changed a bit when I got hit (as a pedestrian) by a guy who ran a red light, hit another car (causing $13K damage to it), and then spun and hit me (in the crosswalk). He was fortunate to only get a red light violation ... and he got a lawyer and fought that and got it dismissed.

I can't imagine fighting a ticket in those circumstances. Maybe I'd try to get out of a speeding ticket if I caused no injuries, etc., but the fact is, I've gotten four of them in my lifetime (and none in a while) and all except the last were spaced far enough apart that they dropped off my record before they had an impact on my insurance rates. In every case, I speeded, I got caught, I took my lumps. Didn't really occur to me to take any other approach, and frankly, I wasn't raised that way.

Yeah, I know insurance rates can be prohibitively high and driving is really a necessity in today's world ... but there's a fine line between not getting screwed and taking some responsibility for your actions.

Thoughts? Discussions? Change my mind on this one?

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Lindercles 0]

Your post is much funnier when you interpret it as being about PE.

[Gawain 0]

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I'm really curious about this ... I see a lot of people on here talking about fighting speeding tickets and other moving violations... very few people seem willing to say "yep, I made a mistake and it's time to pay for it."

I'm wondering if there's shades of gray around this for some people? I will admit that I have actually tried to get out of speeding tickets myself (only once and unsuccessfully - I never bothered to hire a lawyer or anything).

I fight speeding tickets because they have nothing to do with safety and everything to do with revenue, taxation without representation, referendum or legislative law.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Buried 0]

i usually just pay them since i get them in other states and dont affect the record. I've fought one a number of yrs ago, and the cop showed up and lied. Cost me an extra 30$ on the ticket for court costs. tho it was kinda ammusing for how many mexicans were there for driving w/o a license or w/o insurance

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

[NWFlyer 2]

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I fight speeding tickets because they have nothing to do with safety and everything to do with revenue, taxation without representation, referendum or legislative law.

Interesting... I don't share the same opinion, but I'm curious to learn where yours comes from.

Do you believe that:

1) Speed limits are set without regard to safety and are set entirely on the basis of revenue-generating potential?

2) That there is no need for speed limits? Or that there is no need for enforcement of speed limits? Or that we just need to reform the enforcement of speed limits?

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Scoop 0]

Thats bullshit. They are there for safety, no ones gets a buzz out of issuing tickets and no officers
are on commision or have to fill a quota.

Some people really are so self involved and don't think that what they are doing has any implications. Clearly it does as NWFlyer's post cleary shows. People get killed and injured through assholes running red lights or speeding. The only way to communicate with people like this is to hit them in their pockets. Do you think if you got off with a verbal all the time that you'd change you ways? No you wouldn't. If the only way to get through to people is to make them think 'damn I can't afford to get caught' then thats fine (no pun intended) by me

[brierebecca 0]

I have fought some tickets, and got out of them. A friend of mine who is a lawyer in town majorly hooked me up. I went through a bad period where I got 4 tickets in 2 months, in my home town. Just was late to work and got caught. I didn't feel bad about speeding, and I wasn't in a position to hurt anyone.

I don't really have any strong opinions on the traffic system, and I don't think it's really corrupt. I just think it's a system. And if you can get around it (like I did), then you've successfully navigated the system.

These days, I'd probably just accept the ticket. I haven't had one in a while, and I don't think it would really hurt my insurance that much. It would be more trouble than it's worth to fight it.

Brie

"Ive seen you hump air, hump the floor of the plane, and hump legs. You now have a new nickname: "Black Humper of Death"--yardhippie

[ACMESkydiver 0]

Joe doesn't fight his, but he has asked to be put on 'probation'. That's where the ticket will fall off the record as long as you pay a $200 fine and don't get another ticket within 2 years or something. They don't do that any more...

I fight BS tickets. Like 5mph over in a 50 zone or something. In my opinion, the cop has to keep his job by creating revenue for the city/county (because that's all they're doing, realize.) Safety is secondary. City Hall here where I live wouldn't post an officer by a corner that is notorious for speeding teenagers right where our grade schoolers wait for their buses...we were told that with such a low speed limit, the officers wouldn't be 'productive' by generating enough revenue through tickets to warrant it. Our neighborhood would have to find a way to 'self-police' speeders when our grade schoolers were waiting on blind corners for their buses...

I typed out a whole bunch more, but it didn't make much sense so I deleted it.

Now then, your post said 'moving violations', and for some reason I was just reading 'speeding'. I agree that most moving violations are warranted as they can potentially cause an accident or a pattern of driving that can cause an accident. But speeding...well I've been in a number of accidents unfortunately. And NONE of them were due to speeding; even being rear ended on a state route. That old lady shouldn't have been driving in the first place.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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Thats bullshit. They are there for safety, no ones gets a buzz out of issuing tickets and no officers
are on commision or have to fill a quota.

See my post above. It isn't for the officer's ego. It's for the city's revenue. Gawain is right; go ask your city hall.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[NWFlyer 2]

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I don't really have any strong opinions on the traffic system, and I don't think it's really corrupt. I just think it's a system. And if you can get around it (like I did), then you've successfully navigated the system.

Does your opinion change if you cause an accident because of speeding? Or cause injury? Is it still a "system" to navigate?

Oh, and lest anyone think I'm just trying to drum up sympathy, I'm not ... that accident was a shit happens kind of thing, it was three years ago, it's changed my life in myriad positive ways, and while I was angry at the guy at the time, I'm over it - it doesn't do me any good to carry that kind of anger around with me. But it did definitely change (or maybe clarify) my perspectives on this "system." I received a moving violation for one accident I caused, and fortunately there were no injuries associated with it. But it didn't occur to me to try to get out of it - I'd caused the accident; I was going to take responsibility for it. And I was 16 at the time. I still hold the same view.

[NWFlyer 2]

I can definitely understand your viewpoint, Jaye, and there is a lot of "ticky-tack" stuff that people get caught for that is definitely revenue-generating type of stuff. But where's the line on speeding?

Do you fight it if it's high enough to be considered reckless driving?

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Scoop 0]

If you were instead summonsed to appear in court and found guilty I'm sure the fine and punishment would be much greater. Thats certainly true here in the UK

Also if everyone involved in minor traffic offences appeared in court the whole court system would crash and you'd have chaos.

Tickets are just a convenienet administrative way to deal with an offence. Its quick and simple, yes it costs money which in turn goes back to the state, but no different to any other court fine.

Its one of those topics that everyone hates because everyone gets a ticket and almost everyone is bitter about it. Bottom line, if you weren't breaking the law you wouldn't get one. I do however agree that minor speeding infringements are petty, but I personally don't issue tickets in these circumstances.

[PLFXpert 0]

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"yep, I made a mistake and it's time to pay for it."

Thus far, that's exactly what I do. In fact, I called once to pay for a ticket over the phone and the lady said, "I'm sorry. I'm not showing this citation # in the system. Is there a date/time issued?"

I replied, "Yes, 15 minutes ago."

She chuckled and said, "Call back in 15 days."

I dropped a hard check in the mail that day.

I like to be done with things and never think about them again.

If I ever truly felt I did not deserve a ticket I would absolutely fight it. But, thus far I've encountered a lot of really nice cops who either 1. Don't ticket me 2. Ticket me but for FAR less than I deserved or 3. Ticket me for the correct amount b/c I really, REALLY deserved it.

I've had 9 tickets in my lifetime; all for speeding, but if I remember correctly only 4 were actually cited that way. The rest were cited as moving violations for not wearing my seat belt or not stopping completely at a stop sign or something like that.

Eight of those tickets were between the ages of 16 and 19. The ninth, as you might remember, was just recently.

I was driving stick like a Nascar driver when I was 4 on a lawnmower. My daddy always let me drive his Beemer on the backroads growing up, too. Later I was taught to drive by a good family friend and indie-car racer.

I like to go fast.

But I grew up around age 20 and have been driving like Mrs. Daisy ever since. The 9th ticket was a fluke.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[Zenister 0]

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I'm really curious about this ... I see a lot of people on here talking about fighting speeding tickets and other moving violations... very few people seem willing to say "yep, I made a mistake and it's time to pay for it."

I'm wondering if there's shades of gray around this for some people? I will admit that I have actually tried to get out of speeding tickets myself (only once and unsuccessfully - I never bothered to hire a lawyer or anything).

I fight speeding tickets because they have nothing to do with safety and everything to do with revenue, taxation without representation, referendum or legislative law.

agreed. I also fight them as they are often given using means and measurements the devices in question are not capable/designed to make..

i've beaten quite a number of them due to improper use of equipment, and while individual officers are not getting paid 'on commision', the STATE/CITY/COUNTY counts on X number of violations to suplement income. Traffic Laws and violations are OFTEN structured to retain that income, and less than ethical pressures placed on officers and departments to produce the expected numbers.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[NWFlyer 2]

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agreed. I also fight them as they are often given using means and measurements the devices in question are not capable/designed to make..

So, hypothetically speaking, you're going 50 in a 25 mph residential area and you know you're going 50 and you get busted for it and the officer's equipment also says you were going 50.

You're fighting it because the officer was using the wrong equipment?

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[jlmiracle 7]

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Thats bullshit. They are there for safety, no ones gets a buzz out of issuing tickets and no officers
are on commision or have to fill a quota.

See my post above. It isn't for the officer's ego. It's for the city's revenue. Gawain is right; go ask your city hall.

So what you and Gawain are saying is Speed Limits are not for safety and just for revenue? Just think driving though a neighborhood at 55 mph with little kids playing outside and a ball rolls into the street, are you gonna be able to stop in time going 55 when the speed limit is say 30?

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Cudlo 0]

well... lets just say i've been pulled over by every cop in illinois. Got out of every single one of them before the ticket was ever written. Be polite and honest. You know you were doing something wrong, be straight up about it. If you do that and you don't act like a jerk, you usually get out of it. The only 2 tickets I ever recieved, one I went to traffic school for, and the other I beat in court (I really shouldn't say I beat it.. because when I got in there and the state looked at it... they laughed and threw it out (it was a following too closely ticket, but there was no accident and I had insurance)

_________________________________________
"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." - Kierkegaard

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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But where's the line on speeding?

Do you fight it if it's high enough to be considered reckless driving?

I don't know, I don't think I drive fast enough to enter 'reckless endangerment'.

I do drive fast on occassion. I admit that. But it's calculated. I don't drive fast on blind cornered roads, heavily populated roads, etc. I have to have control of most of the variables. Adding in extra traffic or side streets that cars can dodge out from and I don't take that risk. And to tell you the truth, I rarely even look at the spedometer unless there is reason to. I drive as fast as I feel comfortable with, and it usually blends with traffic. I check my speed when I expect to see a speed trap and adjust.

If I got caught going as fast as I choose to? I'd probably tell the truth and tell the police officer that I wasn't looking at my spedometer. Then he can do as he/she will, and like I said, 5mph is bogus. Any more and who knows...I just haven't been in that situation lately to have to think about it.

Now if I was late for something and dodging in and out of traffic and hitting the gas on the straights and got caught, well I'm pretty much done. Not much I'd try to do for that.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[Zenister 0]

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agreed. I also fight them as they are often given using means and measurements the devices in question are not capable/designed to make..

So, hypothetically speaking, you're going 50 in a 25 mph residential area and you know you're going 50 and you get busted for it and the officer's equipment also says you were going 50.

You're fighting it because the officer was using the wrong equipment?

if the conditions he was using it under were not valid for that device, absolutely.

LEOs need to be held to the same standards as the public...

of course IF he's smart he wont write a citation that DEPENDS on the accuracy of the device (if its out of its operating parameters) there are a number of 'lesser' citations he could give that are pretty much incontroverable (those based on the officers judgement). If he's fool enough to write one that is dependent on the measuring device, and its used out of parameters, (assuming i've got the time, sometimes the fine isnt worth my time) I'm going to make him justify it in court..

he's less likely to make the same error again afterwards...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[brierebecca 0]

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Does your opinion change if you cause an accident because of speeding? Or cause injury? Is it still a "system" to navigate?

Yea, I think it's still a system. And the point of the system is to punish people for their actions and to deter others from those same actions. By its very nature, it's an adversarial setup. Both sides get the chance to appear before a tribunal and tell their side. When I fought those tickets, I had a lawyer on my side and the cop on the other, and I won.

I guess I see a difference between getting a ticket for going 50 in a 35 zone, nowhere near any school or pedestrian area, and going 90 in a 45 and causing an accident. I can't say whether I'd fight it because I've never been in that situation. I find that when I make assumptions about how I'll behave in certain situations, I'm sometimes wrong. Sometimes for the better, and sometimes for the worse.

But that doesn't negate the fact that there is a system, and there is a way to navigate through it. The beauty of it is that it doesn't assume either side is right.

Brie

"Ive seen you hump air, hump the floor of the plane, and hump legs. You now have a new nickname: "Black Humper of Death"--yardhippie

[McBeth 0]

I only have one... I just dealt with the fine and went to traffic school, so it never ended up on my record.

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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Thats bullshit. They are there for safety, no ones gets a buzz out of issuing tickets and no officers
are on commision or have to fill a quota.

See my post above. It isn't for the officer's ego. It's for the city's revenue. Gawain is right; go ask your city hall.

So what you and Gawain are saying is Speed Limits are not for safety and just for revenue? Just think driving though a neighborhood at 55 mph with little kids playing outside and a ball rolls into the street, are you gonna be able to stop in time going 55 when the speed limit is say 30?

j

No, I need to explain a little better...of course they are going to set the speed limit according to safety. They will enforce it based upon revenue.

And no I have never driven 55 through a neighborhood with children.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[jlmiracle 7]

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Thats bullshit. They are there for safety, no ones gets a buzz out of issuing tickets and no officers
are on commision or have to fill a quota.

See my post above. It isn't for the officer's ego. It's for the city's revenue. Gawain is right; go ask your city hall.

So what you and Gawain are saying is Speed Limits are not for safety and just for revenue? Just think driving though a neighborhood at 55 mph with little kids playing outside and a ball rolls into the street, are you gonna be able to stop in time going 55 when the speed limit is say 30?

j

No, I need to explain a little better...of course they are going to set the speed limit according to safety. They will enforce it based upon revenue.

And no I have never driven 55 through a neighborhood with children.

So if the town doesn't need the revenue do you believe they would let everyone drive as fast as they want?

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Scoop 0]

Who 'enforces' it based on revenue. Tickets are issued at officers discretion. What do they care how much money they have raised. If it was the police forces accounts depertment operating the cameras i'd accept what your saying.

I don't see how nayone can argue. Its black and white. You og over the speed limit you shouldn't be surprised if one day you get a ticket. We all do it but we all should accept that if we get caught we have to face teh consequences. A consequence free justice system is pointless.

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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Thats bullshit. They are there for safety, no ones gets a buzz out of issuing tickets and no officers
are on commision or have to fill a quota.

See my post above. It isn't for the officer's ego. It's for the city's revenue. Gawain is right; go ask your city hall.

So what you and Gawain are saying is Speed Limits are not for safety and just for revenue? Just think driving though a neighborhood at 55 mph with little kids playing outside and a ball rolls into the street, are you gonna be able to stop in time going 55 when the speed limit is say 30?

j

No, I need to explain a little better...of course they are going to set the speed limit according to safety. They will enforce it based upon revenue.

And no I have never driven 55 through a neighborhood with children.

So if the town doesn't need the revenue do you believe they would let everyone drive as fast as they want?

j

No, read what I wrote again. I'll highlight it.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.