RWS/UPT TrueLock Toggles - Brake Fire

[tdog 0]

So I had my first brake fire yesterday... On a Katana loaded about 1.4. Made great video, I was able to stop the spin and kick out of the twists by pulling a riser before I knew the brake fired... (Since Brake Fire is not an universal term = premature brake release on deployment)

I am now even a greater fan of the UPT/RWS true-locks. I am confident they saved me from a reserve ride and the costs of an I&R.

I have attached a page from the manual so everyone can see a true-lock.

The true-lock has a metal pin on the bottom, and the manual clearly shows to stow the excess line around that metal pin.

The net effect of the top tap firing and the metal pin staying in = only a few inches of brake line released. It was released fast enough that it burned thru the tab on the back (melted clean thru). In the PDF file I annotated with an arrow what melted thru.

Because the true-lock only let out a few inches of line - the canopy spun and dove, but I was able to fix it with a bit of rear risers while kicking out of the twists and doing other stuff that happened so quickly it just happened... In fact, I did not know the fire occured until I got out of the twists and thought, "why is my canopy diving every time I let up on this riser." That is how little line it let out.

[piisfish 135]

***I am now even a greater fan of the UPT/RWS true-locks. I am confident they saved me from a reserve ride and the costs of an I&R.[url]get Parachutes de France like toggle/riser and then you'll even forget what a brake fire can be.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[tdog 0]

Quote

get Parachutes de France like toggle/riser and then you'll even forget what a brake fire can be.

I went to their website and tried to click the English flag assuming that would make their website change to an English version... The picture is pretty but does nothing.

I could not find pictures of their toggles on the website, so since you like them so much, please post a picture or link...

[piisfish 135]

picture sent to me by Jerrybaumchen

basically the pin goes through the cat's eye and the toggle is secured on the riser by pushing it downwards. If your slider hits the toggle, it can not unsecure the pin, and will not pull the toggle out of a pocket, but rather push it in place.

To unstow toggles, pull them up to get out of the 2 pockets, and then down to unstow the pin.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[SWATcop 0]

Quote

I have attached a page from the manual so everyone can see a true-lock.

The true-lock has a metal pin on the bottom, and the manual clearly shows to stow the excess line around that metal pin.

Thanks for posting that, I have been stowing my toggles wrong all this time.

Kevin

Muff Brother #4041
Team Dirty Sanchez #467

[sundevil777 94]

I know a way to prevent the slider from causing premature brake releases - slider stops that prevent it from coming down that far.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[hajnalka 0]

Quote

I am now even a greater fan of the UPT/RWS true-locks. I am confident they saved me from a reserve ride and the costs of an I&R.

I have attached a page from the manual so everyone can see a true-lock.

The true-lock has a metal pin on the bottom, and the manual clearly shows to stow the excess line around that metal pin.

The net effect of the top tap firing and the metal pin staying in = only a few inches of brake line released. It was released fast enough that it burned thru the tab on the back (melted clean thru). In the PDF file I annotated with an arrow what melted thru.

Because the true-lock only let out a few inches of line - the canopy spun and dove, but I was able to fix it with a bit of rear risers while kicking out of the twists and doing other stuff that happened so quickly it just happened... In fact, I did not know the fire occured until I got out of the twists and thought, "why is my canopy diving every time I let up on this riser." That is how little line it let out.

Are you saying that people should route excess steering line around the metal pin - i.e. put the pin through the excess line?

If so, I disagree strongly, and I don't think this is what the manual shows.

Pins are there to keep toggles in place on opening/prevent toggle fires. It's been done on BASE rigs for some time, with good results. I've built and modified many BASE toggles and risers for this reason.

Excess toggle line, in my opinion, it best dealt with on the back of the riser if there's an issue. Incorporating excess toggle line with how the toggles/brake line are stowed on the front of the riser is just bad news in my experience. I've seen many mals and lots of toggle line damage from this.

I do love pins in toggle stowing, and I LOVE the Tru-Loc risers. I think all excess should be stowed on the back of the riser, if at all .... but that's just me.

I'm glad you got out of your spinner without a reserve ride! - well done, and thanks for sharing this. Good food for thought.

Peace, + take care,
D

[MrBrant 0]

Quote

Are you saying that people should route excess steering line around the metal pin - i.e. put the pin through the excess line?

If so, I disagree strongly, and I don't think this is what the manual shows.

Actually, it does show it in the manual - but it's a little weird.
See the page that tdog posted - it's page 53 of the PDF version of the V3 manual.

The weird part is, that it shows stowing the excess a few pages earlier without putting it through the pin. But on the posted page, it shows the excess through the pin.


I've been stowing my excess through the pin since I've had my V3 (about 2 months now), and they've always released fine. I'd be interested in hearing other people's experiences.

[hajnalka 0]

squish -

Thanks so much for pointing that out to me .

I'd always thought that was verboten. I'm glad to hear that it's in the manual, and people are stowing excess successfully with the pin - very cool.

Best,
Dawn

[deadbug 0]

The manual shows the end of the excess brake line with the pin passing through it and then going into the pin slot. That's how I have been stowing my toggles on my Vector III. I have never had a toggle release prematurely or had anything hang up by stowing them like this. I see alot of people with there excess brake line hanging free and to me thats just asking for a brake fire.

[skyblu3 0]

PDF definetely have the best system and it's been around since the mid 90's, I don't know how nobody has copied it.

[piisfish 135]

Quote

PDF definetely have the best system and it's been around since the mid 90's, I don't know how nobody has copied it.

a question of ego. How could manufacturers say : yeah we copied it from someone else, don't know how they got the idea before us....

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[USPA 0]

And maybe some reserve ride, because some girls can't get them loose, so end up spinning with 1 brake released. Or maybe people only treading the pin once through the loop, resulting in brake firing. (They are more common over here, so we have more issues with them over here too... ;) ) The version with buttons is even more worse. (also damages alot)

The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

[piisfish 135]

do you suggest different risers/toggles for boys and girls ?

Some people will need slider stops. For these, people, no need to have such toggles. For people pulling their slider down, IMO it is among the best solutions.

If someone wants to put his/her slider down but is not capable of releasing toggles correctly, he/she should reevaluate their procedures in order to have a completely working system.

Misrigging is "common". It happens everyday. Mistreaded brakes, packing stepthroughs, misrouted 3 rings etc etc. It also happens to riggers.

Like the people who don't throw away their PC and get everything entangled in their helmet yada yada yada

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[phoenixlpr 0]

Quote

do you suggest different risers/toggles for boys and girls ?

I have classic toggles only and they are working really fine for me. I like them, because I can stick back my toggles to the velcro if I need to use my hands for something else.

[timbarrett 0]

if i understand right i agree with you about not using the pin for stowing the excess line...i managed to create a mal that way last week because i pulled the toggle free down thru the loop of excess line..creating a neatly locked off brake line...
as i had never tried landing on rears i chopped this and then took the resultant mess to the UPT rigger Pablo who told me not to stow that way and just to stow the excess doubled over in the elastic on the rear of the risers...

"Work hard, play hard and don't whinge"

[bliston 0]

I think the type/size of main canopy people jump also plays into the conversation. A smaller Stiletto, for example, doesn't have a great deal of excess line and can be stowed neatly on the side opposite the toggles and through the pin. However, a larger Spectre has a ton of excess and perhaps merits more attention. For folks who have a lot of excess line, perhaps the "double up" method or maybe even having a rigger add an extra binding tape loop closer to the junction of the front and rear risers might be a good solution (just so following the through the pin manufacturer instructions doesn't create a big loop).

I think UPT makes a great riser, and recommends a stow method that works well with the vast majority of canopies. However, jumpers should talk with a competent rigger to find a solution if his/her particular main has a ton of extra brake line that might cause problems.

Ben

Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website


sticks!

[tdog 0]

Quote

Are you saying that people should route excess steering line around the metal pin - i.e. put the pin through the excess line?

I am saying follow the manual word for word... That is what I did, and that is what actually helped...

[tdog 0]

Quote

if i understand right i agree with you about not using the pin for stowing the excess line...i managed to create a mal that way last week because i pulled the toggle free down thru the loop of excess line..creating a neatly locked off brake line...
as i had never tried landing on rears i chopped this and then took the resultant mess to the UPT rigger Pablo who told me not to stow that way and just to stow the excess doubled over in the elastic on the rear of the risers...

I have seen one of my students do that very thing. He landed on rears on his "A licence" checkoff dive... I almost failed him for having a bad landing away from the spot. But since he actually did a very small PLF and walked away, once I saw his risers and how he had to manage one toggle and two risers, I realized he did great...

Back on topic... Yes, if there is a large loop of line that is hanging loose on the back of the riser, putting your hand thru that loop before releasing your toggles will create a perfect knot connecting your brake line to the loops on the back of the risers.

I have used UPT risers with everything from a Pilot (210) to a Stiletto and Katana. None of these canopies have too much line stow by the owners manual's instructions. But I have seen some canopies have huge loops between the cats eye and the toggle... If you don't understand what I am saying - please make sure you do - as it took me until I had a student make his own mal until I understood how to do the same thing... If someone asks, I can take photos and show how it can be done. BTW. If this happens and you have lots of altitude and a hookknife, cutting the tab off the back of the riser will fix the problem and be cheaper to repair than an I&R - however don't do this lower than you are willing to cut away from.

[tdog 0]

Quote

I know a way to prevent the slider from causing premature brake releases - slider stops that prevent it from coming down that far.

In my case my "fire" happened while the slider was still up... The toggle came loose from some other reason while the riser went under tension and/or came out of the packjob.

[jheadley 0]

This same thing happened to me (the brake line knot). I didn't have Tru Lock Toggles though. I demoed a Katana 150 and it came on Infinity risers. I didn't like how the binding tape on the back of the risers was so loose that it didn't keep the excess in place, so I routed the brake line like a Tru-Lock. I put my hand through the loop before unstowing my brakes (The 150 had a lot of excess), and got a nice little knot around the binding tape. I had a relatively uneventful rear riser landing after that.

I still like the idea of securing the excess with a bottom pin. I just will no longer try to do it unless they actually are Tru Lock Toggles, and there isn't a huge loop of excess line.

[Fast 0]

I stow my vector toggles this way as well. For me, if the toggles are stowed right there is almost no way I could reach through the line to grab my risers.

I have had a brake fire before and this made a huge difference. Wouldn't want to stow toggles any other way. I never give my rig to a packer w/o stowing the toggles.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[kallend 1,647]

Quote

if i understand right i agree with you about not using the pin for stowing the excess line...i managed to create a mal that way last week because i pulled the toggle free down thru the loop of excess line..creating a neatly locked off brake line...
as i had never tried landing on rears i chopped this and then took the resultant mess to the UPT rigger Pablo who told me not to stow that way and just to stow the excess doubled over in the elastic on the rear of the risers...

I too was told that RWS/UPT had changed their recommendation, to NOT using the pin to secure the excess line. Maybe someone from UPT can comment?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[brianfry713 0]

I've had control system malfunctions and the occasional brake fire, but I haven't had to cut away from one yet, and I've been able to fix them well above 1,000 feet.

What works best for me is stowing the excess line according to the owners manual, and taking an extra second to make sure I have a clean grip of the toggle before I unstow them.

I loosen my chest strap, collapse and pull down my slider over my slocks and behind my head before releasing the toggles.

[davelepka 4]

Quote

taking an extra second to make sure I have a clean grip of the toggle before I unstow them.

I can't believe that you have to put that in writing. It should go without saying.

I can't understand how anyone can take a good flying canopy, and attempt to make a major change by unstowing the brakes, and not check to see that the all is OK with the toggles, excess line, and hand placement before doing so.

What the hell else are you doing anyway? Are you that busy that you can't give your canopy and control system your full attention for five seconds, and just have a look?



For the record, this is directed at everyone besides brianfry713.