new Iowa State AAD fire record :-)

[jasonRose 0]

This one time in Iowa, I took a flute and stuck it in a skyvan throwing jumpers out at 2000'.



2000' hop -n- pop = out of my comfort range

If others want to jump at 2000' and are cofortable with then go for it but please don't try to talk me into it.

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[Zenister 0]

well this is the wrong forum, but you have some reading comprehension issues if you believe ive EVER called you an idiot.

uneducated and unaware of how little you know? Perhaps. But "idiot"? No.
I can only point you to some Reading Comprehension primers,

there is nothing "stupid" about jumping from 2k. the only reason someone would make that claim is fear..

or do you have a better excuse for your ignorant statement?

and yes if you are not aware enough to understand why a 2k exit isnt "Stupid" you shouldnt be skydiving (IMO)

a stable clear and pull is a FUNDAMENTAL SURVIVAL SKILL... 2k is PLENTY of altitude to work with IF YOU ARE AWARE.

and i side with Diablo.. if in an emergency exit situation you are in my way quivering with fear because the ground is so close and exiting that low is "Stupid" you are going 1. Out the door. 2 On the floor as i go over you.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[micro 0]

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Whoever said I was scared?


And I find it highly ironic that you and diablo, who have basically called me an idiot for being a Christian, are now using my opinion about jumping out at 2k as an "excuse" to call me out as someone who should not be skydiving.


But whatever, think what you'd like. My panties aren't in a bunch.

Sarah, he does have a valid point about being able to get out at 2k if your life depended on it.

And if you don't practice it, you may not do it when you really NEED to do it. I don't like 2k exits, but he's right... practice so you can do it whne it counts.

True, his delivery may be harsh, but his point is no less valid.

Now, 2k exit on a high-speed pass? Um... no thanks.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[micro 0]

Quote

well this is the wrong forum, but you have some reading comprehension issues if you believe ive EVER called you an idiot.

uneducated and unaware of how little you know? Perhaps. But "idiot"? No.
I can only point you to some Reading Comprehensionprimers,

there is nothing "stupid" about jumping from 2k. the only reason someone would make that claim is fear..

or do you have a better excuse for your ignorant statement?

and yes if you are not aware enough to understand why a 2k exit isnt "Stupid" you shouldnt be skydiving (IMO)

a stable clear and pull is a FUNDAMENTAL SURVIVAL SKILL... 2k is PLENTY of altitude to work with IF YOU ARE AWARE.

and i side with Diablo.. if in an emergency exit situation you are in my way quivering with fear because the ground is so close and exiting that low is "Stupid" you are going 1. Out the door. 2 On the floor as i go over you.

jeez zen, do you have to be so harsh on her?

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[windcatcher 0]

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and i side with Diablo.. if in an emergency exit situation you are in my way quivering with fear because the ground is so close and exiting that low is "Stupid" you are going 1. Out the door. 2 On the floor as i go over you.

Did I ever mention I would be too afraid to jump out at 2k? NOPE! You just merely assumed that. I would be more than happy to get out at 2k or 1500 if my life depended on it. However, to me that is different than routinely getting out at such a low altitude.

About the only things that will have me "quivering with fear" are snakes and crocodiles and huge spiders.
Other than that, plane goes down and I have to stay or jump, you really think I'll be afraid? I think you know why I wouldn't--I do not fear death. I have plenty reason not to.
But anyway, I am done explaining myself. This thread has made me think a lot about low altitudes, just in time for me to make a couple hop-n-pops before I say farewell to the sky till after the baby's born.

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[Zenister 0]

probably not, but the ground is harsher than I.

unaware, untrained and unprepared endangers everyone else as well..

with as common as the "that's TOO LOW NO F#N WAY" attitude appears here, maybe the USPA needs to require some more static line jump / stable clear and pulls as part of AFF.

you dont HAVE to get out (in normal operations) "low" if you dont want...

you DO have to know how to do so in an emergency, or you are endangering everyone you jump with...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[micro 0]

Quote

probably not, but the ground is harsher than I.

unaware, untrained and unprepared endangers everyone else as well..

with as common as the "that's TOO LOW NO F#N WAY" attitude appears here, maybe the USPA needs to require some more static line jump / stable clear and pulls as part of AFF.

you dont HAVE to get out (in normal operations) "low" if you dont want...

you DO have to know how to do so in an emergency, or you are endangering everyone you jump with...

true that, my friend.

and you make a compelling point about possible mandatory low jumps for training purposes. I know this thread has taught me that I HAVE to get over my sub-3k fear HAVE TO.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[Zenister 0]

ah so you arent afraid, well then lets hear all the logical well thought out reasons why a 2k exit is "Stupid"

dont worry i wont wait for the crickets...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[kelpdiver 2]

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And if you don't practice it, you may not do it when you really NEED to do it. I don't like 2k exits, but he's right... practice so you can do it whne it counts.

Micro - that's a BSR violation for you, if your profile is accurate. And for Windcatcher, and myself. 2500ft practice is nearly as good.

[jeiber 0]

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Jumping out at 2k????

That's freakin stupid.

skydivers afraid of a 2,000 exit?

sad, sad, sad....

I hate to play both sides of the court here, but I (personally) wouldn't slam somebody for being a little intimidated from a 2k exit altitude.

2k is low - downplay it all you want, but it's low; especially for someone with under 100 jumps. (I hope) few people would be telling this guy to 'go for it' with 84 jumps, out of an unfamiliar aircraft, at an unfamiliar DZ. All I can say is I would be grabbing this guy on the ramp, and telling him he needs to think twice about what he's doing.

Would I do it, given the same situation as being discussed? I'd be the first one off the ramp. A poor example to set? Maybe, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a roll model.

Hopefully they'd land with the plane to help me find my main and free bag...

Jeff

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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there is nothing "stupid" about jumping from 2k. the only reason someone would make that claim is fear.

Hey Zen there is a big difference between having to jump out at 2k or less due to an emergency (using one's reserve) and voluntarily jumping out. If you're jumping a docile enough main canopy that doesn't snivel forever, then yes 2k jumps are not to be feared. But I'm just rolling the dice if I think I'm in no danger at all jumping out at 2k with a high performance canopy on my back. It doesn't take that many spinning rotations and even less time for me to lose 1000 feet if I get an unfavorable deployment. We shouldn't be confusing an emergency exit with shit the clouds are low and I'm bored let's go do a jump.

It's also funny to listen to some people call me a chicken because I'm not a fan of hucking myself out with the canopies I jump at 2k. Yet if I offered to take them to the local 180 foot span, I'm the one who's all of a sudden the crazy one. Well yes jumping from a 180 foot span is NOT sane, but it goes back to that "use the right tools for the job and if you want to pull low take up BASE jumping" attitude.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[wmw999 2,150]

Your canopy is inappropriate for a 2k jump, and you're not telling other people (whose canopies might be appropriate for one) that it's wrong for them to do it.

Your point about not all canopies being appropriate for a 2K jump is a good one; most canopies were 20 years ago, and most probably aren't now. People need to think about that.

The difference is that the other poster said "it is stupid" rather than "I think it's stupid" or qualifying the statement in any way.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Remster 24]

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2k is low - downplay it all you want, but it's low; especially for someone with under 100 jumps

Wow... a skydiving discussion in Bonfire.



First: Sara, Zen, JP et al, stop the PAs.

Second, Jeib, it only feels low NOW. A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, people used to do a whole bunch of jumps form 3 to 3.5. Sometime, they even did their 1st jump from 3K! Oh the horror!

We're not talking about exiting at 2, turning 5 points and tracking away. We're talking about a necessary survival skill of being able to exit stable and open a parachute. Its not stupid.

Heck, you may be in a situation where you need to do that at 1000 feet!

Remster

[tigra 0]

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Whoever said I was scared?


And I find it highly ironic that you and diablo, who have basically called me an idiot for being a Christian, are now using my opinion about jumping out at 2k as an "excuse" to call me out as someone who should not be skydiving.


But whatever, think what you'd like. My panties aren't in a bunch.

OK, what I really find ironic is that out of ALL the people who took issue with your statement, you only call out these 2. Maybe you should double check those panties afterall!

[Brains 2]

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We shouldn't be confusing an emergency exit with shit the clouds are low and I'm bored let's go do a jump.

Excellent point. Steve, i agree with you and the others who share this opinion. I even chose to ride the plane down a couple weeks ago versus get out at 2k. Now, i have done a planned H&P from 2K or even a little less, but not with full camera equip and a 1.9:1 loaded elip. Now if the pilot said "Everyone out" instead of, "i will make a pass across the top so you can leave if you want to." It would have been a different story. My helmet would have been buckeled in and i would have been gone. Turns out i made the right decision too, on my next jump, i opened with three twists, no biggie from 3.5 K little bigger deal from 2 or less.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[ntacfreefly 0]

Jeff,

I think the reaction that Steve, and others, are facing isn't because of an adversion to doing unprepared 2k pulls but rather that some people have expressed outright fear and unwillingness to do them.

I still stand by my prior posts where I advocate PRACTICING and preparing for lower passes. My concerns with jumpers who called such low passes stupid/crazy/etc makes me worry about the type of people I may be in an aircraft emergency with one day. Panic and confusion are our worst enemies. If we couple that with being unprepared we have a recipe for distaster.

Blues,
Ian

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[Brains 2]

I couldn't agree more. I think that they need to be practiced. Kim actually exited and was glad she did, she said she knows that she can now if she has to.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[micro 0]

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Jeff,

I think the reaction that Steve, and others, are facing isn't because of an adversion to doing unprepared 2k pulls but rather that some people have expressed outright fear and unwillingness to do them.

I still stand by my prior posts where I advocate PRACTICING and preparing for lower passes. My concerns with jumpers who called such low passes stupid/crazy/etc makes me worry about the type of people I may be in an aircraft emergency with one day. Panic and confusion are our worst enemies. If we couple that with being unprepared we have a recipe for distaster.

Blues,
Ian

Yep, and like I said earlier, this post has been a huge wake up call for me to stop being a chicken shit about low hop and pops so that if the time comes I can get out and get it done w/o endangering myself or others.

So, out of this incredibly stupid affair has come some valuable lessons, at least for me.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[jumper03 0]

I think this is just more proof that jumpers would even jump out of '57 buick cruising down I-95 if you shined a green light in their face.

Scars remind us that the past is real

[rhaig 0]

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ah so you arent afraid, well then lets hear all the logical well thought out reasons why a 2k exit is "Stupid"

dont worry i wont wait for the crickets...

ok, here's stupid.

Demo planned for evening into a golf course. Overcast at 3K when we take off. no big deal. the demo was planned to be a hop-n-pop anyway. find the golf course, clouds are at 2200. no biggie, we have all done 2K hop-pop's before... when exit time comes, it's actually at about 1800'. everyone landed fine. but while we all had remembered to set our cypres's for the altitude difference (landing area was +120' from takeoff) we all forgot to adjust our altimiters. actual exit altitude recorded electronicly was about 1700'

Now that's stupid.

Oh yeah, there was one spun up main that was chopped and lost. But he wasn't pissed about it. Just kept muttering "guess I shouldn't have gotten out".

--
Rob

[micro 0]

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I think this is just more proof that jumpers would even jump out of '57 buick cruising down I-95 if you shined a green light in their face.

As long as it's at a Boogie, what's wrong w/ that?

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[jeiber 0]

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Wow... a skydiving discussion in Bonfire.

... and people actually have valid arguments, at that!

***Second, Jeib, it only feels low NOW. A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, people used to do a whole bunch of jumps form 3 to 3.5. Sometime, they even did their 1st jump from 3K! Oh the horror!

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Yeah, perhaps it is all relative. Doing the math though.... the reserve needs, what 500' to safely open? The average main takes, what, 700' to open? That's 1200' out of the 2000' gone from the equation, right off the bat. Really not that much left over... especially if you want to turn to land into the wind.

Jeff

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

• Quote

[Butters 0]

I may be wrong but people have stated that you should practice exiting at 2,000ft in the case you have to exit from 2,000ft in an emergency. Wouldn't it be wiser to practice exiting at 3,000ft while pretending you were exiting from 2,000ft (pretend that 1,000ft is the ground)?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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I may be wrong but people have stated that you should practice exiting at 2,000ft in the case you have to exit from 2,000ft in an emergency. Wouldn't it be wiser to practice exiting at 3,000ft while pretending you were exiting from 2,000ft (pretend that 1,000ft is the ground)?

I can't speak for others, but I know I've done plenty of clear and pulls from low as well as high altitudes and wouldn't be worried about knowing how to exit stable. But I'd like to know what handle people are planning to pull when they exit the aircraft at 2k or below? We know there are plenty of skygods around here who claim it will never happen to them because they've successfully gone to their mains after all these jumps. But if I'm in a disabled airplane and I need to exit it at 2k or below, rest assured I'll be going for my reserve handle. Then again I'm not as cool as some of these skygods.

And to the skygods out there who still think 2k freaks me out. Why don't you come join me and some friends at our local 180 foot span and/or local 300 foot cliff. You may see some fear in my eyes, but if the weather conditions are right, I'll still jump. Fear is a good thing in our sport(s). It helps prevent us from becoming too complacent.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[yjumpinoz 0]

I think that the many posts have a least made people think about their hard deck for exiting. If you put yourself through the different scenerios, just like emergency procedures, you will react rather than follow the mob. I also know that if the plane is on fire I may get out real low. You also should base which canopy on your back would be the better option.