When you pack like me, you have to trust your rigger!

[humbled1 0]

I hated packing, seemed so hard in the beginning. Plus it gets SO hot at my dz in the summer, spending 45 minutes pouring sweat was a nightmare. Plus I was super anal about everything, I did not trust myself and would unpack it alot, or ask someone to look at it. I was told, "It wants to open" and so I went on. I dont hate it as much, but I have gotten over my fear of my pack job, maybe too well. I do pretty much all my own packing, I still dont like it, and I have a tendency to get distracted at the dz (usually running my mouth) while packing. I have packed myself 2 step thrus (I screw shit up AFTER its in the bag, I know how to spot a step thru by running my fingers up the lines) One time I had to cutaway, the second time I had control so I chose to land it, that went fine.

Well this one was not a step thru but something pretty bizarre. I recently started leaving less excess line after reading a thread here, I used to leave the last loop on my dbag not stowed till a week or so ago. That in itself did not cause the mal, but it leaves me much less to move the bag around and I got confused/distracted and must have twisted something around. I felt leary about the pack job but figured "it wants to open".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QFO5UUzmCU

I know I need to be more careful packing, I only posted this in hopes someone else can learn from it. 2 other jumpers watched my mal close by from under canopy. Its hard to tell on the vid but right before my chop the canopy started to dive behind me, the TI that was fun jumping with me said it looked like it was gonna wrap me up within a few secs. BTW, the canopy did that as a result of my trying to fix the mal (i guess u can make it worse lol) I initially thot I opened with line twists, but that was not the real problem. It looked hopeless but I was plenty high so I figured I would be sure it was a chop situation, lol then my canopy got very angry! Beside hiring a packer, I dont know what I would have done different, I felt the canopy start to dive and my body was thrown out like a carving turn, I went for red and silver very quickly (gotta love that muscle memory!!) Even kept my handles this time.

once i got my bag back and main (that is an awesome story in itself!) I called my rigger and drove it up to him, it should be ready by Saturday so I can jump, (4 way skills camp!!)

btw, I am mainly a belly jumper (4 Way ROCKS!) so I already know I suck at freeflying!

I realize I am looking pretty dumb over all this BUT I just think others can learn from my mistakes. One thing that NEVER went thru my mind was, "Will my reserve open?", what I was deciding was, "Can I control this parachute?, Can I land it safely?" THAT IS ALL I CARE ABOUT!! If I was worried about my reserve maybe I would have waited a few more secs fucking with a mal I could never hope to fix, and from what I was told that may have been a few more seconds than I had to spare. Also I realized today that if you do have a mal with your reserve a little extra alitude may be what you need to clear it. Its a very gray area without a doubt!!

be safe

"Tell ya the truth, I don't think this is a brains kind of operation."

[Baksteen 84]

First, nice one for posting that video. It takes balls to own up to our mistakes so that others may learn from it.

But we've all been there. Either the beer is calling you across the packing area, or you are simply dying to make that next load, or you even simply are too exhausted to start over again.
I too learned the hard way that if I doubt my pack job, starting over is the best solution, though in my case it didn't lead to a cutaway but 'merely' a ridiculously hard opening. And trust me, on a Storm you really have to try hard for that.

Your malfunction looks to my inexperienced eye like the D-bag was flipped through the lines while you were packing. At 1'14" to 1'17" in the video, the right side of the line groups look really funky, but on the left you can see that the line groups are wound* around each other (just below the slider).

Awesome job cutting away, I did notice that the canopy starteed to dive. That was clearly not a landable canopy and I congratulate you for the way you performed your reserve procedure.

BTW practice makes perfect, while making mistakes is only human so don't worry too much unless if at some point in your career you feel obliged to post a thread with the title "when you rig like me, you have to trust your packer!"



*I did my best to avoid the word 'twist', which might confuse the issue.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[virgin-burner 1]

if you ever see such a picture again, cutaway immediately.. you took way too long for that!

are you jumping some kind of RSL, skyhook!? next time, when you cutaway earlier, take your time to fall away and get stable before you deploy your reserve.. at least, thats what i was taught..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[jakee 1,255]

Quote

Plus I was super anal about everything,

Obviously, you're not!

Quote

I have packed myself 2 step thrus (I screw shit up AFTER its in the bag,

How? What is it you do with the bag to get that result? It's probably much more difficult to do that than to keep the lines straight.

Quote

BTW, the canopy did that as a result of my trying to fix the mal

What did you think was fixable about it?


(And one more thing; since when does spinning about on your back while you lose sight of your jumping partner count as a proper breakoff?)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Baksteen 84]

Quote

take your time to fall away and get stable before you deploy your reserve.. at least, thats what i was taught..

Funny - I was taught the exact opposite:
That more jumpers got hurt/killed trying to get stable before opening their reserve, than reserves ending up with an unfixable mal because jumper cut away and deployed immediately (RSL or no).

There are no definite answers.. stick to your training.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[skybytch 259]

Quote

next time, when you cutaway earlier, take your time to fall away and get stable before you deploy your reserve.. at least, thats what i was taught..

If it weren't for the numerous corpses that followed that "advice" in the past, that might be a good idea...

[Baksteen 84]

Quote

Quote

I have packed myself 2 step thrus (I screw shit up AFTER its in the bag,

How? What is it you do with the bag to get that result? It's probably much more difficult to do that than to keep the lines straight.

It is not. All it takes is someone accidently 'kicking' the d-bag while you are looking for that replacement rubber band or even the bag falling off the container where you placed it while arranging the risers and slack.

First scenario improbable? You'd hope so, but I once had to glare very severely at people who thought that 'around my d-bag' was the perfect spot to brief their next jump, while I had walked no further away than to my rig, in order to get the pull through I keep in the former ROL-pocket. One of them even stood across my lines, though he apologised when he saw the look on my face.

A second example is when a student stepped on my hand while I was arranging stuff into my container (I personally prefer to place the d-bag between the leg straps rather than on top of the reserve when arranging the lines). I went 'ouch'. He gave me a look and apologised: "Oh, sorry - I didn't know that was a hand, I thought I stepped on part of your rig or something", to which I naturally replied that for my hand he could be sorry, but for my rig he would be kicked.
Shit happens - you can do everything right and still get screwed. Not only while landing, but also while packing.

Quote

BTW, the canopy did that as a result of my trying to fix the mal

What did you think was fixable about it?

He did say he thought at first he got into line twists.
'sides, there are an awful lot of 'riser twists' in there - but if there were less the canopy might very well be landable..I should know.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[virgin-burner 1]

Quote

Quote

next time, when you cutaway earlier, take your time to fall away and get stable before you deploy your reserve.. at least, thats what i was taught..

If it weren't for the numerous corpses that followed that "advice" in the past, that might be a good idea...

seems, there's no concensus on that procedure. to the OP, please ignore said post!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[jakee 1,255]

Quote

It is not.

It is.

Quote

or even the bag falling off the container where you placed it while arranging the risers and slack.

Not the way I do it.

Quote

'sides, there are an awful lot of 'riser twists' in there

Only one.

Quote

but if there were less the canopy might very well be landable

No. If it was a completely different type of step through the canopy might be landable. But it's very obviously not.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

Quote

Quote

next time, when you cutaway earlier, take your time to fall away and get stable before you deploy your reserve.. at least, that's what i was taught..

If it weren't for the numerous corpses that followed that "advice" in the past, that might be a good idea...

seems, there's no consensus on that procedure. to the OP, please ignore said post!

It's always best to stick to your training.

That being said, back when I was trained and the 'RSL's' were called a Stevens Lanyard, it was a right of passage so to speak when you had enough experience to remove the lanyard and were competent enough to cut away and provide a stable position with which to launch the reserve.

I still abide by that procedure and don't use an RSL.
When I'm down to my 'last bullet' I want to give it every available possibility to open clean.

My EP's are hardwired and successfully proven (to me anyway) 14 times...

By 'hardwired' I mean I am aware of my hard deck and procedures...I tend to recognize and react quickly and without hesitation with continual altitude awareness.

Yes...there are cases of low reserve deployments resulting in death or injury, as there are also cases of unstable reserve deployments rendering the same outcome.

It's a judgement call as to what procedure to use that should only be made after careful and knowledgeable consideration.

Let's look at the case in point...

A very current C license jumper with 261 jumps and a camera/line catcher on his head, has cutaway from a diving and almost spinning canopy while unstable and on his back ~ ~ ~ anyone see a problem here?

Had the situation turned out differently, would we blame the camera mount or the RSL?

I wouldn't go so far as to say the OP was 'lucky' but I would say he's fortunate he wasn't UN-lucky.

I also wonder if he'd considered the possible ramifications of his equipment and the set-up prior to jumping that day, that way.

A couple other points I'd like to make to the OP...

~ You did take an inordinately long period of time to assess the malfunction. Granted you had altitude but obvious to me anyway, you weren't going to fix that mess and as you experienced...it only got worse when you tried.

~ Don't take so long to 'stow' your handles.
Yes they are expensive etc. but your 1st priority is to get the reserve control check done and the thing flying properly.
What would you have done if only one brake released or if you had a tension knot tying you into a turn? or if a handle came off in your hand?

You would really be embarrassed if you needed that 3-400 feet you wasted dicking with the handles.

Get the parachute flying first...I hold the handles in my mouth until such time I'm comfortable with what's going on and only then unzip & stow them.

~You do understand that your interesting story regarding recovering the main & bag wouldn't have been quite so entertaining had you chosen to follow them down right?

Your accuracy landing the reserve, tells me you're competent enough to put it where you want, landing closer to your investment is the big boy thing to do.

~Good job on not being dead!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

Your accuracy landing the reserve, tells me you're competent enough to put it where you want, landing closer to your investment is the big boy thing to do

To be fair, unless I missed it, he didn't say where the gear landed and whether it was somewhere that could be safely followed ... if I'd followed my last cutaway down I would have a had a tree landing to add to my "no shit there I was" story (though where I did safely land involved having to be retrieved by the po-po, so it was a pretty good story anyway!)

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[brettski74 0]

Quote

I have packed myself 2 step thrus (I screw shit up AFTER its in the bag, I know how to spot a step thru by running my fingers up the lines) One time I had to cutaway, the second time I had control so I chose to land it, that went fine.

Really? A step through is not something you can land. I suspect you're talking about a flip through. A step through is called such because one way to create this type of entanglement is to step through the lines on one side while picking up your canopy after landing. There are five different types of step through. A flip through - particularly if below the slider - will often deploy stable and may well fly normally and land perfectly fine. In such a case, you would see a complete 360 degree twist in your front and back risers on both left and right sides. A flip through is so called because one way to create it (and also fix it) is to simply flip your rig through the lines while it's laid out on the floor. There are two types of flip through (above and below slider).

What you had here is a step through between the risers, below the slider. Look at the way that one of your left risers is wrapped around the outside of both right risers and the other left riser is going straight up. There is nothing you can do to fix this in the air. On the ground, you would flip the rig through in between the front and rear risers on the left. While it's not impossible (maybe you're an acrobat in your "real" job), it's extremely improbable that you will be able to do this in the air.

I would suggest that you sit in on a packing course again. Pay particular attention to the sections on the different types of entanglements and how to deal with them. Not only might this help you pack better, it may also help you recognize different types of entanglements in the air so you don't waste time and altitude trying to fix something that you will not be able to fix.

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

Quote

Your accuracy landing the reserve, tells me you're competent enough to put it where you want, landing closer to your investment is the big boy thing to do

To be fair, unless I missed it, he didn't say where the gear landed and whether it was somewhere that could be safely followed ... if I'd followed my last cutaway down I would have a had a tree landing to add to my "no shit there I was" story (though where I did safely land involved having to be retrieved by the po-po, so it was a pretty good story anyway!)

>once i got my bag back and main (that is an awesome story in itself!)


I didn't mean if it lands in a tree ya should land in the tree WITH it!

Judging from the camera view I would guess 'his' gear landed WAY out to the right and behind the LZ...it didn't look real bad there, but I could be wrong...there's always a 1st time!

It's a judgement call, but landing so that you can quickly recover your gear is sometimes simpler than wandering around all afternoon looking for it in the hot sun, or seeing it on Ebay a couple weeks later because it landed too close to a busy road and it took ya 45 minutes to get there.

Just MY opnion for what ever it's worth.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[madhatter 0]

Quote

It's always best to stick to your training.

....


It's a judgement call as to what procedure to use that should only be made after careful and knowledgeable consideration.

.....

~You do understand that your interesting story regarding recovering the main & bag wouldn't have been quite so entertaining had you chosen to follow the down right?

......

~Good job on not being dead!

Hey, 'twardo! Why don't you always post such complete & sensible replies as you did here?

A VERY MERRY UNBIRTHDAY TO YOU!!!
D.S # 125

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

Hey, 'twardo! Why don't you always post such complete & sensible replies as you did here?

Because...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[NiteQwill 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Your accuracy landing the reserve, tells me you're competent enough to put it where you want, landing closer to your investment is the big boy thing to do

To be fair, unless I missed it, he didn't say where the gear landed and whether it was somewhere that could be safely followed ... if I'd followed my last cutaway down I would have a had a tree landing to add to my "no shit there I was" story (though where I did safely land involved having to be retrieved by the po-po, so it was a pretty good story anyway!)

>once i got my bag back and main (that is an awesome story in itself!)


I didn't mean if it lands in a tree ya should land in the tree WITH it!

Judging from the camera view I would guess 'his' gear landed WAY out to the right and behind the LZ...it didn't look real bad there, but I could be wrong...there's always a 1st time!

It's a judgement call, but landing so that you can quickly recover your gear is sometimes simpler than wandering around all afternoon looking for it in the hot sun, or seeing it on Ebay a couple weeks later because it landed too close to a busy road and it took ya 45 minutes to get there.

Just MY opnion for what ever it's worth.

I jump with Steve at this DZ. If he would have chased his main behind the DZ for an easy recovery, he would have run into two slight problems... angry cows and power lines.

Steve, I'm glad you're okay man. I'm still [jumpin'] in Germany, I'll see you at the DZ when I return.

"Fail, fail again. Fail better."
-Samuel Beckett

[likestojump 3]

Not to be a dick, but this really, really irks me.

How can you say that you are "really anal about everything" when you have obviously never did a continuity check on your canopy, or even worse, discounted the line groups "feeling weird" before stuffing that ball of junk into the dbag ?

And you also missed the swoop pond while landing :)

[mdrejhon 8]

Quote

are you jumping some kind of RSL, skyhook!? next time, when you cutaway earlier, take your time to fall away and get stable before you deploy your reserve.. at least, thats what i was taught..

This is fine for most normally high altitudes as a student, but half of my pulls seem to be as a bigway outer -- that means I pull at 2500 (organizer orders do not pull above 2500 as a big way outer on that particular jump, as an example!) and I'm in the saddle anywhere in the ballpark of 1700-2300 feet. In these cases, a mal for me is going to be a cutaway at 1500 feet, possibly lower if I'm unlucky to get a confusing mal -- I'm going to do a very rapid two-punch for most mals. This is somewhat below hard deck of 2000 feet for most other jumps, so I'm not going to take my merry time between the handles, just a fraction of a second.

The risk of entanglement is far lower than the risk of death by splat, if you're not fast enough with your EP's when altitude is running out. Even a canopy transfer (reserve before cutaway) ends up being theoretically safer in some cases, though I wouldn't risk doing that either.

In a similiar circumstance, another girl at a big way event I was at (Perris May 2009) had a reserve ride beginning at 800 feet over a bad spot, and that wasn't enough time to land injury-free.

[humbled1 0]

Instead of addressing each and every comment I will just post what I have learned in the last few days.

First off, that was another step-thru, I have apparently have mastered 3 out the 5 types at this point.

Yes I do have a RSL, I jump a lightly loaded canopy (1:1) and do not have an AAD so I do use a RSL.

As I stated in my original post, I WAS SUPER ANAL, but as time went on I just figured, "it wants to open"

I know how to spot a step-thru while packing, my first encounter with one resulted in a urgent phone call to my friend who gave me my main (a packer then now a rigger) who came over and laughed as he explained my canopy was not broken, but that I had a step-thru. He then went on to show me the different ways to correct it, (flip the main, or better flip the container), he also explained how it normally happens.(that was LAST summer!)

Regardless, he happened to be packing at my dz today he had me take the bag out of the container and undo 2 stows then put it back. He saw RIGHT AWAY what I was doing!!! I had a habit of twisting the bag when I put it in, he then had me do it 3 more times, using the EXACT same steps he showed me, I get it!! I picked up a sloppy habit at some point and did not know any better.

Just to sum shit up, I have packed 3 malfunctions at this point, one I was able to land, 2 I had to cutaway from. The last 2 I had no idea how I did it, the first one I pulled the pilot chute underneath the dbag, not realizing what that meant.

Also as stupid as it may seem I wanted to try and understand what was the mal, I knew I was plenty high and understood I could not fix it, but I am also getting tired of opening realizing I fucked shit up again.

Some jumpers from my dz actually suggested I should have waited till I was lower before chopping in order to ensure my main was easier to find. lmao I would rather lose my main then deal with reserve line twists at 1500 feet.

Regardless I feel like the mystery is solved and I have Montana to thank!

I appreciate all your comments, and I hope someone else can learn from my mistakes!!

"Tell ya the truth, I don't think this is a brains kind of operation."

[ufk22 32]

I watched the video. What you had would be damn tough to do after everything was in the bag. You obviously don't know how to run your hands up through the lines. If you've done this twice before, you have no excuses.
LEARN TO PACK, or your daughter won't have you around to jump with. This isn't about others learning from this, this is about YOU learning from this.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[humbled1 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

next time, when you cutaway earlier, take your time to fall away and get stable before you deploy your reserve.. at least, that's what i was taught..

If it weren't for the numerous corpses that followed that "advice" in the past, that might be a good idea...

seems, there's no consensus on that procedure. to the OP, please ignore said post!

It's always best to stick to your training.

That being said, back when I was trained and the 'RSL's' were called a Stevens Lanyard, it was a right of passage so to speak when you had enough experience to remove the lanyard and were competent enough to cut away and provide a stable position with which to launch the reserve.

I still abide by that procedure and don't use an RSL.
When I'm down to my 'last bullet' I want to give it every available possibility to open clean.

My EP's are hardwired and successfully proven (to me anyway) 14 times...

By 'hardwired' I mean I am aware of my hard deck and procedures...I tend to recognize and react quickly and without hesitation with continual altitude awareness.

Yes...there are cases of low reserve deployments resulting in death or injury, as there are also cases of unstable reserve deployments rendering the same outcome.

It's a judgement call as to what procedure to use that should only be made after careful and knowledgeable consideration.

Let's look at the case in point...

A very current C license jumper with 261 jumps and a camera/line catcher on his head, has cutaway from a diving and almost spinning canopy while unstable and on his back ~ ~ ~ anyone see a problem here?

Had the situation turned out differently, would we blame the camera mount or the RSL?

I wouldn't go so far as to say the OP was 'lucky' but I would say he's fortunate he wasn't UN-lucky.

I also wonder if he'd considered the possible ramifications of his equipment and the set-up prior to jumping that day, that way.

A couple other points I'd like to make to the OP...

~ You did take an inordinately long period of time to assess the malfunction. Granted you had altitude but obvious to me anyway, you weren't going to fix that mess and as you experienced...it only got worse when you tried.

~ Don't take so long to 'stow' your handles.
Yes they are expensive etc. but your 1st priority is to get the reserve control check done and the thing flying properly.
What would you have done if only one brake released or if you had a tension knot tying you into a turn? or if a handle came off in your hand?

You would really be embarrassed if you needed that 3-400 feet you wasted dicking with the handles.

Get the parachute flying first...I hold the handles in my mouth until such time I'm comfortable with what's going on and only then unzip & stow them.

~You do understand that your interesting story regarding recovering the main & bag wouldn't have been quite so entertaining had you chosen to follow them down right?

Your accuracy landing the reserve, tells me you're competent enough to put it where you want, landing closer to your investment is the big boy thing to do.

~Good job on not being dead!

I truly appreciate all your comments. Especially about the handles, that is good advice. The main I could have lost was actually given to me, I have since put about 200 jumps on it, so it was not much of an investment. I understand you did not know that. Also there were already people driving out to get my main/dbag before I had even landed.

Also you have not seen my camera setup so you do not realize its pretty dam snag proof. Which is also why I have my RSL connected.

To be honest I have heard too much shit about rookie jumpers being critzied for chopping mals that more experienced jumpers would fix. I actually went for my handles earlier but I wanted to be sure I could have a proper explanation for the Cutaway Nazis (u know who u r)

seriously tho, thanks for the ass-chewing, nothing like brutal honesty!!

btw, to whoever says I lost sight of the 2 guys I was jumping with, to bad so sad, u are WRONG! I have eyeballs in sockets that roll. I went to my back 3 times during my sit, what u saw SPINNING was me going to my belly, I had COMPLETE sight of both jumpers at pull time even if you didnt.

baksteen, thanks for you input!

"Tell ya the truth, I don't think this is a brains kind of operation."

[humbled1 0]

Quote

I watched the video. What you had would be damn tough to do after everything was in the bag. You obviously don't know how to run your hands up through the lines. If you've done this twice before, you have no excuses.
LEARN TO PACK, or your daughter won't have you around to jump with. This isn't about others learning from this, this is about YOU learning from this.

EDIT SORRY U REPLIED WHEN I DID NO OFFENSE MEANT!!!

"Tell ya the truth, I don't think this is a brains kind of operation."

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

seriously tho, thanks for the ass-chewing, nothing like brutal honesty!!

That's what I'm here for!


And since you're being so gracious regarding the acceptance of constructive criticism...


FUCK the Chop-Nazis!

YOU are the one in the harness, your life is dependent on your decisions...take the time to learn and apply that knowledge to your situation as YOU see fit...never second guess yourself.

By the tone & manner of your posts, not to mention posting the video in the first place...acknowledging and analyzing your mistakes isn't a problem for you.

You definitely 'are one' & you're gonna be around for a while!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[humbled1 0]

lol yeah I just wanted to be sure, its sad in a way when a mal dont scare u at sub 300 jumps...it was like FUCK AGAIN?

"Tell ya the truth, I don't think this is a brains kind of operation."

[billeisele 122]

Quote

Yes I do have a RSL, I jump a lightly loaded canopy (1:1) and do not have an AAD so I do use a RSL.

I appreciate all your comments, and I hope someone else can learn from my mistakes!!

I guess I missed the new training program that says cool video comes before safety

261 jumps, jumping a camera, no AAD:
- master the basic skills before donning a camera
- learn to pack before frigging with camera gear
- buy an AAD before camera gear

Headline: "Fatality caught on video, would have been prevented with an AAD"

It is about priorities and yours seem goofed up. Of course just my opinion.

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.