Damage to Neptune caused by New Mamba

[catfishhunter 1]

Just got my new Mamba and Jumped it today. From as near as we could tell there is only one way to put the Neptune in. Well the Nut for the Latch of the face shield hits right on the screen of the Neptune. From what we can tell it wouldn't matter what audible you put in the Design of the helmet will damage it. Now I don't know if they changed it or the smaller helments are different but my wifes has a pocket that you slide the audible in and the nut never gets close to her's but mine and Brian's (skydive ogden DZO) both have the same problem. He didn't notice he had a HUGE divot in his neptune until I showed him what the helmet did to mine after one Jump. I will be calling Bone Head Monday. I love the helmet but it just fucked up my $250 Neptune.

I would think they would have tested every scenario/audible etc and would not turn lose a product that causes unexpected damages.

I am going to ask them to pay to replace the screen on my Neptune. We'll see what they have to say..

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[Shark 0]

Sorry for your loss, and hope you can get resolution.
I have put over 500 jumps with one of the first Mamba FF helmets alternating between the regular Neptune and the Wave. No problems at all.

[monkycndo 0]

My protrack fit tight against my ear in my XXL. I removed a piece of the padding to make it fit better. Haven't jumped it since the "fix". Might need to rethink it now. Thanks for the heads up.

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You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[P-dro 0]

I just put 16 jumps on my new XXL Mamba with a ProTrack. Absolutely no problem...

[skybytch 259]

Is there some part of "user assumes all risks" that isn't clear? If you could tell when you put the Neptune in that the nut was touching it, why'd you jump it?

[diablopilot 2]

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I would think they would have tested every scenario/audible etc and would not turn lose a product that causes unexpected damages.

I might be wrong, but I think the Mamba was released before the Neptune.

Not only that, but I think it's YOUR responsibility. Bonehead didn't install the audible. You did.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[catfishhunter 1]

Ok and what part of producing a product that is defective by design do you find ok? For $300 one should expect superior craftsmanship.

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Is there some part of "user assumes all risks" that isn't clear?

What sort of reply is that? That statement just leaves me scratching my head. Read above. for $300 I should expect a product that is NOT defective. A disclaimer does not alleviate someone from responsibillity. As for jumping it I put the neptune in the pocket jumped took it out and noticed the damage. We looked at Brian's and it had damage as well.

So if your attitude is that one can build products that are defective and sell them and then use a disclaimer to release themselves from responsibillity then please remind me who you work for so that I can be sure to not purchase anything from them.

Edited to add
It is a XXL Mamba.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[pilotdave 0]

I don't know about the mamba, but can you just turn the neptune around so the screen isn't facing the nut? Might still be able to crack the case I guess... My neptune is so loud in my Z1 I have to put it that way so the speaker doesn't face my ear.

Dave

[diablopilot 2]

I've installed audibles in dozens of Mambas with no ill effects. I seriously doubt the product is flawed since they are made from the same mold, finish cut by a computer and robotic arm, and there has not been an issue of this before.

But go ahead and blame Bonehead because you assumed your square peg fit in a hole.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[pilotdave 0]

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I might be wrong, but I think the Mamba was released before the Neptune.

Just did some searching on here... first "i got my neptune" thread was august of 2003. You posted that the mamba was being tested in the perris tunnel in october of 2004.

I have no idea if there's some issue with audibles in the mamba, but the neptune had been out for over a year when the mamba was still in testing.

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But go ahead and blame Bonehead because you assumed your square peg fit in a hole.

Yeah, really odd to try to stick an audible in an audible pocket. He shoulda thought twice about that!

Dave

[diablopilot 2]

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Yeah, really odd to try to stick an audible in an audible pocket. He shoulda thought twice about that!

Antagonistic remark removed by slotperfect

What makes you think there is some "standard shape" to audibles?

Since I've been in the sport and selling gear, just about every new manufacturer of audible has made them in different dimensions.

The originally Dytter was a different shape than the Pro Dytter. The Time Out was a different shape. The SkyTronics are a different shape.

Stop trying to blame someone else for personal fuck ups.

Antagonistic remark removed by slotperfect

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[skybytch 259]

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A disclaimer does not alleviate someone from responsibillity.

Should a helmet manufacturer be responsible for an audible lost off an outside audible mount? No, that's a risk the user takes by mounting their audible on the outside of the helmet. How about for a camera lost off an open side mount? No, that's a risk the user takes by mounting a camera on the helmet.

It is not the manufacturer's fault that you didn't verify that your audible would fit properly in your helmet before you jumped it.

[pilotdave 0]

The neptune is almost exactly the same dimensions as the protrack and pro dytter, which I'm sure were the most common audibles when it was designed. If theres some problem with the mamba that causes it to damage audibles of that size, it has a design flaw.

I think you're probably right that there's something different going on here and the mamba doesnt generally have this design flaw because others aren't reporting problems in big numbers.

But regardless, if the design flaw exists, i'd blame bonehead too. I think its a ridiculous argument to make that the mamba might just not be compatible with the neptune. That would be something bonehead would be responsible to tell their customers.

Dave

[skybytch 259]

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I think you're probably right that there's something different going on here and the mamba doesnt generally have this design flaw because others aren't reporting problems in big numbers.

I think its a ridiculous argument to make that the mamba might just not be compatible with the neptune. That would be something bonehead would be responsible to tell their customers.

If others aren't reporting a problem, how is the company supposed to know about it? If they don't know about it because it's not a problem that's been reported to them, how can they be held responsible for it?

/me walks away shaking my head...

[n23x 0]

As a person who has worked in a variety of manufacturing positions, let me say that, 99.9% of the time, the customer is always wrong (read dumb as a sack of rocks).

I spent a year of my life idiot proofing a beautiful 15k$ telescope mount only to have morons crash their covers/decks into the mount, drop it, bang on it with a large mallet, etc., and yet they'd still find that it was somehow the company's fault that they didn't know their ass from a hole in the wall.

Now, I'm not saying that that's what's going on here , but I can understand other's skepticism.

I haven't seen bonehead's modification, but if I was the process engineer responsible for an ooops like that... well, I wouldn't be. I know better, and I imagine they do too. If it's a manufacturing error, email them up and handle your business.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[pilotdave 0]

Did you read anything I wrote, or just maybe pick out a few words and decide to reply?

Let me paraphrase what I said. I doubt there is a design flaw based on the fact that most mamba owners don't seem to have this problem. But if the design of the mamba does cause modern, average-sized audibles to break, then the product is flawed. I was debating the idea that the customer may have screwed up by putting a neptune in the audible pocket of a modern skydiving helmet.

Dave

[catfishhunter 1]

Dude I sure hope you are not still selling gear of any sort. Same with skybytch. Your customer service skills and trying to shift responsibillity back to the end user is deplorable. Antagonistic remark removed by slotperfect

Antagonistic remark removed by slotperfect I have a customer data base of over 4000 customers. My personal sales topped 1.5 million last year. I think I know a thing or two about quality and service and what should be expected of a manufactuer and a distributor. As a buisness owner I would take care of this no question asked and HAVE....

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[dorbie 0]

Contact Bonehead, they have a great reputation, you're not going to get a resolution on DZ.com and maybe your post saved someone else's gear from damage in the mean time. Any responsible gear maker would want to know about this issue ASAP.

I'd also run this past Altimaster, they may just fix it anyway, I know B&L would without batting an eyelid.

There's no point getting annoyed over the confusion CYA waivers cause some people.

[Stumpy 256]

Cheers for this - i was going to get one very soon but if i can't use my audible in it then i will buy a helmet that i can. Shame because apart from that i like the Mamba.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[propofol65 0]

Cat, you are correct in your statement that the hinge retaining nut contacts your Neptume. It does the same with my Protrac. The first time I used it, it did mar up the clear, protective overlay covering the screen. I cut a piece of thin lexan and covered the Protrac screen with this - it offers a little more protection to the screen. You can also move the ear padding as far to the rear as possible. If you do move the padding, the cut-out for your audible is not in the way of the nut. I tried this first, but didn't like the lack of padding around the carbon-fiber edge and it didn't feel right. You're right, design flaw or oversite. A lower profile retaining nut with some lock-tite might also help. But redesigning the placement of the hinge bolt/nut would alleviate the problem. Good luck.

[popsjumper 2]

Thanks for your post. You may have saved some others from making the same mistake you did - blindly putting in your Neptune in without checking to see what you were doing.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[slotperfect 7]

catfishhunter and diablopilot: please refrain from antagonistic remarks in the forums. Take your personal differences to PMs.

Both of you know by now that opinions abound in this place, and people are not always going to agree with you. Opposing viewpoints are always welcome - please stay objective and keep your temper when you post.

Thanks.

Arrive Safely

John

[kingbunky 3]

i just got my new xxl mamba, but i don't have my pro dytter in it yet. that said, since the dytter mounts in the ear pad and the bolt in question is attached to the helmet, would it be possible that your ear pad is out of position? would it be possible for you to move the ear pad so that your neptune won't come in contact with the bolt?

"Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart."
MB4252 TDS699
killing threads since 2001

[monkycndo 0]

Quote

i just got my new xxl mamba, but i don't have my pro dytter in it yet. that said, since the dytter mounts in the ear pad and the bolt in question is attached to the helmet, would it be possible that your ear pad is out of position? would it be possible for you to move the ear pad so that your neptune won't come in contact with the bolt?

Just double checked my earpad. The cut out for the audible misses the nut. No issues with my xxl.

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You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[ficus 0]

I got a new Mamba on Friday and jumped it all weekend. Comparing it with the Mambas of a couple friends, Bonehead has definitely changed the design of the padding. Those of you not having a problem most likely have the old liner.

Pictures attached:

#1 (InsideHelmet.jpg): Inside the helmet with all padding attached.

#2 (EarPadding.jpg): The ear side of the right ear pad.

#3 (EmptyAudiblePocket.jpg): The helmet side of the right ear pad. I assume the hole in the white foam is meant for better sound transmission from the piezo in the audible.

#4 (VisorNut.jpg): The inside of the helmet with the right ear pad removed. Note the nut from the visor protruding into where the audible pocket rests.

#5 (ProTrackMounted.jpg): My Pro-Track mounted in the audible pocket.

#6 (ProTrackCloseup.jpg): The several places where the screen was stabbed at by the nut. The screen is intact and unscratched; the protective sticker over it is the only thing that has sustained any damage.

I am of the opinion that this is a poor design. Even if there is a better way to mount an audible in this helmet, the only obvious one is as shown. The old design had a slit in the ear side of the padding to put your audible in. The new design makes the screen and buttons much more accessible, but it's cold comfort if your screen doesn't work anymore.

I am also mailing these pictures to Bonehead to see if I can get some kind of resolution from them, but pending that, I wanted to bring a little clarity to this thread and echo the cautionary tale in the original post.

I don't see how you can use a Pro-Track (or apparently a Neptune) in this helmet without risking damage to the screen.

Ficus