What mp3 player do I want?

[Slappie 9]

Basically I'm a newb when it comes to mp3 players. I want to use it to help unclutter some of my music. I'm so tired of fumbling for CDs in the car or having to lug them back and forth when I want to listen in the house. I'd like some serious feedback pros & cons. Thanks

The Apple iPod - the big dog on the porch.

Pros: Massive support on and offline with enough accessories to choke an Amazon.com warehouse's shipping dept. Good selection of music, tv shows and such.

Cons: DRM... reliability is in question. Have read horror stories about Apple repair and support.

Creative Zen Vision:M - Made my Creative, normally good products. Don't know much.

Pros: Can load from a file explorer mode, no need for software. Will accept most any music files.

Cons: Accessories? Support?

Zune - Microsoft/Toshiba player.

Pros: No clue

Cons: Microsoft is involved, DRM files. No real supply of video or tv shows.

Sony PSP - Gaming system

Pros: Can game, decent support, will load almost any music file. Video is outstanding clarity. Smooth running system.

Cons: Storage, size and car adapter? Haven't found one.

Now I've got some limits and I'm sure those can be worked around.

1) I really don't want to have to deal with DRM watermarked music files. iPod and Zune's retail sites both sell DRM files.

2) I want to be able to load my own files without having to use a retail site.

3) I want to be able to buy videos, tv shows and maybe movies in the future.

4) Using an FM Transmitter is ok, but I'd rather have connectivity with my head unit. Not necessarily control. But the clarity between direct connect & fm transmit is pretty noticeable at higher volume levels. (Can't jam Danzig and listen to the fm modulation whine)

5) Must be in the sub $300 category. So I'm leaning towards the 30gb in size. That should give me enough space to swamp in enough music to keep me happy and still leave space for tv shows & movies. Keeping in mind I don't leave them on the player forever. Video files would fill it up quickly.



I have a very large mp3 collection that gets bigger all the time. This could start to include movies and tv shows compressed for the format of the player I purchase.

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them."

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I recently picked up an 8 GIG iPod nano and so far (knock on wood) I am very happy with it. I only use my iPod nano for music. I have my laptop and desktop 'puters for when I want to play video.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[AggieDave 6]

I have a 60gb Ipod and I'm quite pleased with it. Obviously there are issues and I have experienced some minor issues. Luckily there are alternative sources for support (like yourself) with tools, how-tos, etc. You can easily rebuild a broken Ipod for less then a new purchase.

Is that the best solution? Nope. Is the Ipod the best mp3 player on the market? Yup, as of right now it is. There are others available, but none of them have the features or accessory options (especially when it comes to car audio) that the Ipod does.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[justinb138 0]

I've got the Creative one and it's great.

My only complaint is that it doesn't come with an AC charger, and the USB charger is slow (~5hrs to charge). I picked one up at the local best buy and it'll charge in 2 hrs.

[Remster 24]

I think the DRM issues are only for tunes purchsed on Itunes ot other sites like these. If you use your backup rips from your own CD collection it shouldnt matter.

Remster

[Thanatos340 1]

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Is the Ipod the best mp3 player on the market? Yup, as of right now it is.

How do you reach that conclusion?

Most popular?? Absolutely.
Best?? Highly debatable.

[Lindercles 0]

It sounds like you want pretty much the same things I want, particularly loading from explorer and the ability to accept most any music file. For that kind of versatility I prefer Creative. I find them to be much less proprietary than any other system, which allows you a greater range of use. Ipods are nice, but they'll piss you off if you want to do anything other than commit your entire life to the Apple system. I've had my current Creative for almost 3 years and have had no problems at all, though I'm still looking to upgrade for technology's sake, and it will definitely be another Creative.

[AggieDave 6]

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Best?? Highly debatable.

Ok, like every single other poll and industry report, its all opinion.

Here's what I wanted from a MP3 player:

Large capacity
Easy to use
Easy to upload and organize
Pictures
Video with audio
Easy and direct adaptability to car audio
Large accessory selection.

That pretty much narrows it down to the Ipod. Thusly, in my opinion, its the "best" on the market.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skybytch 259]

We've had a 60 gig Ipod for six months. So far it's been a great little toy. We really thought that 60 gigs was overkill but we've already got almost 40 gigs on it, so I'd suggest getting the most storage space you can for what you have to spend.

Most of our files are mp3's ripped from personal CD's. Have had no issues putting them on the toy.

We tried the FM transmitter thing but found that a simple $5-10 cassette adapter from Wally World works great with the factory stereo in the car. Haven't tried it with a "real" stereo though.

My biggest complaint is that it's hard to play dj with it if you haven't spent some time organizing your files in ITunes first.

[michalm21 0]

I've had creative zen for 2 years and can't say a bad word about it or the customer support.
I broke it last year (dropped it bad, my fault) and after paying service fee of $25 they sent me a brand new unit without questions asked. They support guy was kinda dull, but got things done.
However, I've been wanting one of those Ipods pretty bad too. Those seem like a pretty reliable and cool players

[Slappie 9]

Sadly I don't have a tape deck in the car anymore.

I can purchase an adapter from Audi to make it compatable with my indash head unit. But that's close to $200 parts w/install. Or I can "engineer" something hardwired in.


Looked at the 60gb+ ... would love to have more storage but it seems the norm for a 60gb+ is over my limit. Hell only reason I'm still playerless is I refused to pay $250-300 for a player! I know I could get a smaller player and just swamp files more often. That's not what I want... not going to settle if I don't have too.

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them."

[Thanatos340 1]

Quote

Here's what I wanted from a MP3 player:

Large capacity
Easy to use
Easy to upload and organize
Pictures
Video with audio
Easy and direct adaptability to car audio
Large accessory selection.

That pretty much narrows it down to the Ipod. Thusly, in my opinion, its the "best" on the market.

Large capacity - Zen has 30 and 60gb versions.
Easy to use - Long as you only do what apple wants you to do. Step outside thier Box and you are screwed. The Zen is MUCH easier to deal with. Plug it in, It shows up as a Drive. Drag and drop your files. Cant possibly be any simpler and no iTunes to deal with.
Easy to upload and organize - See above.
Pictures - Zen Vision M.
Video with audio -Zen Vison M
Easy and direct adaptability to car audio - Most new Head units come with USB port on the front that work with ANY USB MP3 Player iPod or Zen or Other. Otherwise, $5 cable (1/8" Phono to RCA) will Plug ANY MP3 Player into any head unit that has RCA inputs)
Large accessory selection. - iPod does win this one hands down.

Now for industry comparisons.. I just did a basic search for Ipod vs Zen on Yahoo.. These are the first few results..
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=31530
When it comes to the video features, such as picture quality, video out or video battery life Creative Labs' Zen Vision M clearly wins against the Apple Ipod.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3000_7-6417634-1.html
In the iPod-vs.-Vision:M smackdown, there's no question which device gets the headlock--at least in regard to features. On top of its superior screen, the 30GB Creative Vision:M has an FM radio tuner and recorder, a voice recorder, and sync tools for carrying around your Outlook data. Equally important, or perhaps more so, Creative's player supports DRM-protected WMA files, meaning you can stock it with songs purchased from any number of online stores. The iPod, of course, limits your shopping to iTunes Music Store. The Vision:M is also Janus compatible, so you can stuff it with tunes downloaded from subscription services such as Napster To Go. At the moment, iPod users have no such option.

If you want the functionality of the iPod with the flexibility of a player that supports DRM'd WMA files and subscription services, along with support for several different video codecs, then the Zen Vision:M may be just what you're looking for.

Now for Facts instead of Opinions.
Zen Supports Many more File types.
Zen is eaier to use without all the Limitations of the ipod.
Zen has better Picture, Video and Display.
Longer battery Life.
Zen will Play WMA files (Smaller files at the same bit rate = More music on the same size devise)
Zen will support MANY different Video Codecs not just quick time

The only advantage the iPod has is more accessories.

I have an 80g Video iPod and a Zen Vision M both sitting front of me right now. (Got them both for Christmas). The Zen is everything I have been looking for in an MP3 Player (except for a Removable/Replicable Battery).

I have a large collection of Videos that I downloaded from SkydivingMovies.. Almost all will have to be converted to Quicktime to go onto my iPod.. No conversioin needced fom most go on the Zen. Again, Just drag and drop.

Zen will play multiple movie formats WMV9, MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG4-SP including DivX 4 & 5, XviD, Motion-JPEG.
iPod will only play .m4v, .mp4 and .mov.
again the zen has an edge here and overlaps on MP4.

zen's audio formats MP3,WAV,WMA,WMA DRM
iPod's audio formats AAC although iTunes will convert mp3 and non DRM for the iPod.


Ever wanted to delete just one song from your iPOd?? Major pain in the ass. Usually requires you to resync with iTunes as the rewrite the entire devise (Taked forever on an 80gb). With the Zen, Plug it in, Open the devise in Explorer and delete the file.. Or evem better.. Use the delete function on the player.. What a Brilliant idea.

Please name one thing the iPod can do that the Zen Vision M cant??

[Lindercles 0]

What he said.

[Gawain 0]

I don't have any experience with anything but the iPod. I have a 30GB video model and I love it. Can't beat the form factor, and I've had no qualitative issues with it (it survived a trip to Iraq and shipping back).

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Slappie 9]

Now that's the type of post I was looking for!!

Thanks man.

More?

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them."

[Shell666 0]

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We've had a 60 gig Ipod for six months.

We tried the FM transmitter thing but found that a simple $5-10 cassette adapter from Wally World works great with the factory stereo in the car. Haven't tried it with a "real" stereo though.

The FM transmitter I have works great on my iPod in my factory stereo in my Jeep (all those tunes you heard in Bryanada in LP this year). Much better than the cassette one I bought the first time around (trying to save $$ - so much for that!). I have this one from Griffin.

As for mp3 players, I'm with iPod all the way. I just bought my nieces and nephews (all 4 of them) MPIO's for Christmas (to save $$ since I had to buy so many) it's been a real headache to get them to work on my Mac despite the fact they said they were Mac compatible (still waiting on the firmware update from them). They have PC's at home but they prefer to do their music thing here. According to them (and me), my Mac is better. Hmm .. might be some truth to those Mac/PC commercials about Mac's being for kids.

'Shell

'Shell

[Thanatos340 1]

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Now that's the type of post I was looking for!!

I own an iPod 4gb Mini, Several Generic Flash Based MP3 Players (1 to 4 gb in size), a 5th gen 80gb Video iPod and the Creative Zen Vision M. I have tested them all throughly.

The Zen Blows them all away in every aspect.
Sound Quality is MUCH better on the Zen,
Video is not even close (Zen Display = 256K Colors, iPod=64K Colors),
Battery Life is almost double for the Zen.
Ease of Use is fantastic for the Zen.
Zen comes with built-in FM tuner (No for the iPod), Zen has built in Voice Recorder (Not the iPod),
Zen Plays most Common File types (Ipod does not. It only plays ACC and MP4 files (iTunes Converts MP3s and Mov files to these formats)),
Zen will allow you to delete file directly from the devise (iPoid will not)
Zen show up as Drive when you plug it in, drag and drop what you want. No iTunes headaches and hassles to deal with. If you Like iTunes, WMP 11 is almost identical and does everything iTunes does and more. Its Free and probably already installed on your computer if you have Windows XP.
Zen will Play WMV9, MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG4-SP including DivX 4 & 5, XviD, Motion-JPEG. IPod will only play MP4.

There is not a single thing the iPod does that the Zen doesn’t do and do it better.

Now on to the Negatives of the Zen:
Still doesn’t have an easily replaceable battery (Neither does the iPod).
Zen does not have anywhere near as many accessories. You will not find a Purse that is made to fit your Zen but you will find anything that you actually need.
My biggest complaint when I got the Zen was that I had to charge it for 5 hours when I first opened it. The 80 gig iPod came with a Charge on the battery, (I opened both at the same time Christmas day) The iPod won the instant gratification award.
The Zen came with a 30pin to usb adapter that I did not like at all. For $12 on ebay, I bought a set of 3 different 30 Pin Cables that eliminated the adapter (AC Charges, Car Charger and USB Cable). I threw the adapter in the garbage.

People that rave about the iPod generally have never tried any other MP3 Player. I still challenge anyone to point ut a single thing the iPod does that the Zen Vision M doesn’t.

Apple has done an excellent job of Marketing an inferior product. Such a good job that people in general don’t even realize what they are missing and are content with what they have even though they have never tried anything else. I strongly believe the iPod Marketing campaign will go down in history as the greatest swindle since N.W Ayers created the "A Diamond is Forever" Campaign (Widely regarded as the most successful ad campaign in history also based completely on hype and molding of public perception).

People will continue to say iPod is the Best because that is what they have heard.. But if you ask them why? They will only be able to say because everyone knows it.

Long as the sheep keep lining up, Reverend Jobs will keep serving out the Kool-Aid!

Now stand by for all the "well I Love my iPod anyway" responses.

[AggieDave 6]

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Easy to use - Long as you only do what apple wants you to do. Step outside thier Box and you are screwed.

Nope, you just put one of the other Ipod OSes on the Ipod.

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asy and direct adaptability to car audio - Most new Head units come with USB port on the front that work with ANY USB MP3 Player iPod or Zen or Other. Otherwise, $5 cable (1/8" Phono to RCA) will Plug ANY MP3 Player into any head unit that has RCA inputs)

The direct connect cables for most manufactures for the Ipod allow power supply and charging of your Ipod and many offer head unit control of the Ipod, including play lists and other selection editing features.

Quote

Now for industry comparisons.. I just did a basic search for Ipod vs Zen on Yahoo.. These are the first few results..

Like I said in my previous post. Its my opinion, just like those are other people's opinions. Just because they posted it on the internet or wrote it in a magazine, it doesn't make it less of an opinion and more of a fact.


Basically I've been screwed more then once in the past with Creative products and their total lack of support, discontinuing the product and support of the product which left me to rely on consumer made software patches, etc. The only other company I've had such a bad time dealing with was 3DFX. I've been in and around the tech industry for quite a long time and I try my best not to buy Creative products when possible. Sometimes you have to (like the Dxr3 DVD decoder, that was one of the best you could buy).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Thanatos340 1]

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Nope, you just put one of the other Ipod OSes on the Ipod.

Like Rockbox??
Buy a $300 Plus Devise and then install an unsupported Operating System and void your warranty? No Thanks.

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The direct connect cables for most manufactures for the Ipod allow power supply and charging of your Ipod and many offer head unit control of the Ipod, including play lists and other selection editing features.

Similar cables are available for the Zen, Just harder to find at the moment. The Zen M is still somewhat new, It use a 30Pin Connection just like the iPod but has a different pin out and different key (Also ZVM is 5vdc vs Ipod 12vdc). Actually one of my next projects is to try to build a Zen to Ipod adapter so that all iPod accessories would work with my Zen. With that adapter, the iPod completely wouldn’t have a leg to stand on. Imagine an adapter that would let you use any iPod accessory or cable with a Zen Vision M. Would not be hard at all to make. get a Zen 30Pin Male cable and an iPod 30pin Female Cable, Wire in a small inline 12vdc to 5vdc converter.. Match up the pin outs and it all works.
Too bad Apple and creative would sue my ass off if I tried to market it.
(But I think would void my warranty too!!, But I am going to try it just to see if it works. I have the pin outs for both and cant see why it wouldn’t)

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Like I said in my previous post. Its my opinion, just like those are other people's opinions.

Things like:
Zen has 256K Display versus iPod 64k display
Zen Play many more file types (Audio - WMA, MP3 and Wav. Video - DivX, MPEG-2, MPEG-4, WMV, XviD, etc)
Zen has almost double the battery life
Zen does not require iTunes
Zen has Built in FM Tuner, Ipod does not.
Zen has Built in Voice recorder, iPod does not.
Zen Allows you to delete file on the devise, iPod does not.

These are Facts, Not Opinions.

[AggieDave 6]

You disregarded the rest of my post about my past problems with Creative?

That was a main point of my post? Why would you ignore it? I guess you weren't around with all the problems back in the mid 90s?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Thanatos340 1]

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That was a main point of my post? Why would you ignore it? I guess you weren't around with all the problems back in the mid 90s?

I was around and quite heavily involved in IT. Never had any problems with Creative at all. That is not to say that others didn’t. As someone that owns and run a software company, I can say without a doubt that Support issues plague everyone from time to time.

I do know that Apple has to pay Creative royalties on every iPod they sell. Yep, Creative owns quite a few patents they licenses including the one for oh.. The MP3 Player itself.

You still have to offer a single fact that would indicate that the iPod is better in any way at all over the zen. (other than the more accessories available).

Dave I respect your opinion but I love to debate this issue because no-one can seem to come up with any logical argument at all that shows the iPod as a better devise, yet so many people seem absolutely convinced that it is with nothing to back that position up with at all.

[AggieDave 6]

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Dave I respect your opinion but I love to debate this issue because no-one can seem to come up with any logical argument at all that shows the iPod as a better devise,

Having been very anti-apple for a large majority of my life, especially when I was the "mac guy" for an ISP when dealing with problems, the Ipod won me over for the reasons I listed. I'd love to delve further into our discussion, but I'll have to raise a beer to you. Off to throw some darts at the bar by my house.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[LemmingBoy 0]

I got a Zen Vision for Christmas and absolutely love the thing. I don't own an Ipod, but I have used enough of my friend's to have a decent opinion. I agree with everything in that long post above about the pro's of the ZVM, and I can think of a few more.

The best feature the ZVM has over the Ipod is the functionality provided by the extra buttons on the front of the unit. The vertical touchpad might not be as cute as the round one, but it is much easier to scroll long lists. The shortcut button is great for making playlists on the fly, which is something that I have never managed to do on an Ipod.

Ipod accessories are overpriced. ZVM accessories aren't much better, but some times it seems that the "made for Ipod" stickers add an extra $15 to anything they touch. When it comes down to it, there are enough of ZVM accessories out there to keep you happy. I'm finding out that Ebay is the best place to get all that stuff.

The only gripe I have about my ZVM is the dongle needed to plug in the usb or power cords. They are only $10 to replace if lost, but I am retarded and will probably loose a few of them.

Everyone I know with a ZVM loves them. I think if you got one you wouldn't be disappointed.

[fenceline 0]

Dude, I was lucky enought to be given an 80 gig iPod at Christmas. Its almost cruel tho, so much free space, not enough music to fill even 3 gigs yet. Its quite the system. 30 would have been more than enough, but on the other hand, I ain't trading it in either.

[GQ_jumper 4]

Something not on your list, look at the XM website, I am a diehard XM fan and they have mp3 players that can get satelite radio, or for less get one that records when it is in its dock and record your favorite shows.

just a thought

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower