Skydiving Instructors lack of benefits/insurance-Koji

[popsjumper 2]

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For some reason, while I was reading this I got confused...and thought waltappel and popsjumper were the same person - and I've never met them! I guess they just both come off online as dirty old men.

Hey! How did I get linked in with Walt??????
Wow! What an honor! I'm moving on up in the world!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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...Anyone who can't xit an aircraft and not kick someone in the stomach on xit shouldn't be "ALLOWED" to have insurance!!!

(know who I am yet?)

LOL

Scott

*GULP* Ahhh...mea culpa.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[waltappel 1]

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Hey! How did I get linked in with Walt??????
Wow! What an honor! I'm moving on up in the world!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Walt

[waltappel 1]

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People who sit around and make arguments about why someone else should pay their bills are irresponsible. PERIOD.

Has anyone made that argument in this thread?

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If they want to shit in their own beds I say let them lie in it.

I think everyone is ok with that. Even good insurance, though, doesn't necessarily cover everything and you can end up with massive bills that, if you don't make a lot of money, put you in pretty much the same position as if you had no insurance at all.

Everyone has to look at their own situation and act accordingly.

Walt

[freeflir29 0]

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Even good insurance, though, doesn't necessarily cover everything and you can end up with massive bills that, if you don't make a lot of money, put you in pretty much the same position as if you had no insurance at all.

No doubt about that. I've seen people that made very good livings get in the poor house over medical bills. At least they tried though. Some things you just can't plan for. Like the poor microwave company that got sued by the lady trying to dry her rain soaked cat.

[skybytch 259]

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People who sit around and make arguments about why someone else should pay their bills are irresponsible. PERIOD. If they want to shit in their own beds I say let them lie in it.

Some people would say that skydivers who have children are irresponsible. After all, they chose to bring a life into the world, how dare they engage in activities that could cause their child to go through life without a parent?

[freeflir29 0]

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how dare they engage in activities that could cause their child to go through life without a parent?

I guess we better all investigate cryogenic preservation then........

[waltappel 1]

I'm surprised that nobody mentioned that we are paying medical bills for a bunch of Mexicans and Central Americans who are here illegally. Why not do it for our own taxpaying citizens?

Walt

[PhreeZone 15]

Because that is a Speakers corner topic. If you want to go on that tanget I'm more then happy to move the thread there for that debate.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[waltappel 1]

Point take--I'll delete the post.

Walt

[white_falcon 0]

Ok, for all of you without insurance, you need to check this site out. https://shopblue.bcbsfl.org/U65RateRequest1.asp?productid=IBOP

This is for Blucross Blueshield of Florida (if you are not in florida search for BLUECROSS BLUESHIELD (YOUR STATE).

You can get instant quotes for everything from "traditional" insurance to Catastrophic coverage.

If you have questions, feel free to msg or email me and I will try to help.

I DO NOT represent BC/BS, but I am a licensed Insurance agent in the State of Florida. I personally represent United Health Care and Golden Rule but don't have the ability to provide quotes for you in mass.

I am NOT soliciting your business ( I have written exactly 3 health policies in 15 years, but I do have Knowledge of the industry and how it works) feel free to ask any questions and I will try to provide answers.

Just trying to help.

Scott Kremkau
Tallahasee, FL
[email protected]

[skyshrink 0]

It is hard for individuals to get health insurance. DZ indepedent contractors may want to approach USPA to see if they can get together a group plan to purchase. insurance companies don't want to deal with individuals anymore. the great insurance companies won't even offer individual plans.

wildcard- I'm right there with ya baby. so many people don't value their healthcare. and insurance companies don't value their clients. reimbursement is so low. I finally received payment from medicaid. on a $145 bill, for an hour and a half evaluation, I was paid $5.83. I'd make more money working at McDonald's. But the real question here is "what do you do when you CAN'T get health insurance?" I recently got turned down by blue cross/blue shield...the kicker, I'm one of their providers. It's a sad day in medicine when the DOCTOR can't get health insurance. (fortunately, I have a good friend with a dad in the business, who informed me of all the Cobra-transfer insurance laws, so now they can't turn me down) I actually considered taking a job at the local supermarket, apply for the union, work for two months, then quit and pay for Cobra.

bigbearfng-you may want to consider the above. It's winter, so there isn't alot going on, unless you're in the southern states. One of my former patients worked for safeway in the bakery. it was union. he had better health insurance than I had.

Mistakes-It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

[skyshrink 0]

Attitudes like yours make me sick. You haven't got a clue what life is like for somebody working 40-60 hours a week to make $25,000-$30,000 per year. You make a six figure income and have your health insurance paid by your employer, and you presume to preach to the rest of us about how we spend our meager incomes. How about we just socialize medicine, cut your salary to about 1/3 - 1/4 of what it currently is, and then EVERYBODY can afford health care. Does that plan work for you?

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Are you kidding me? doesn't have a clue what it means to make $30 k for a 60 hour work week. Ha! try working a 40 hour shift, 110 hours per week for $25,000 per year. that's what I made as an intern and yes, I did make that much. wanna know what med school cost me? $147,000. I did nine years of post graduate training. you can only defer interest on student loans for 3 years. after that, you have to go into forbearance if you cannot afford to start paying loans. it's nearly impossible to live off of a residents salary to begin with, much less pay a thousand dollars a month for student loans. that interest rate is compounded onto your already existing loan. so, if I paid my student loan off today, I would have to pay $258,000. that's over 100,000 dollars in itherest during 9 years of post graduate training. If I pay it sallie mae's way, I'll won't pay my loans off until I'm 70 years old. and then I will have paid almost $600,000. I consolidated my loans so that I could pay at a lower interest rate. when I finished residency, I was told I would have to pay 1607 per month for 298 months. the heal loan's interest rate went up. Now I am paying 1709 per month for 341 payments. Make a 6 figure income? are you kidding me? I billed $75,000 this year as my first year in practice. I was reimbursed only 25,000. considering I paid 16,000 in student loan interest, this didn't leave me with much left to live. so, I now have 46K dollars in credit card debt, just on living expenses. shhssh. you should look into what kind of work schedules doctors endure. Unless you've worked 40 hours in the hospital, delusional after no sleep, or you slept in 15 minute intervals while the nurses repeatedly call you for orders, you really have no reason to point your finger at wildcard for making a decent living. he's worked his ass off for a long time to make that money, and as a surgeon, he is working his ass off right now. I'm surprised he even has time to skydive much less post on the internet.

as far as plumbing. I had a stuffed toilet during my residency, cost me $75 per half hour for the plumber. my mother married two of them. step father charged 56.50 per hour in 1986. when I started to moonlight during residency, i was only paid $50 per hour. I'm not even going to go into how much malpractice insurance costs, raised sky high because of litigious idiots. and how about overhead. In any family practice place I have worked, you need at least 4to 5 people for each doctor. you need a receptionist, a biller, a tech and anurse to run a practice smoothly. I can keep on going here, but I wouldn't know where to end. don't think that all doctors are filthy rich. ceo's of hospitals and of insurance companies are raking in all of the money. want to blame high insurance rates on someone, blame the latter two I just mentioned.

Mistakes-It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

[skyshrink 0]

I hear a lot of people suggesting other people take second jobs or indefinitely give up recreational activities to pay for health insurance, but I've yet to hear from anyone who's done this. Have any of you considered the possibility that some people value having free time to spend unwinding with family and friends, over having the financial security offered by health insurance? If you're making $12,000 a year, most hospitals will cut you a deal on your medical bills, just to make sure you don't stiff them, and as I said before, they'll work with you on a payment plan. And quite honestly, if the hospital tries to be a hard ass about it, taking bankruptcy isn't going to dramatically impact somebody who only makes $12,000 a year. So why should these people who are already busting their asses for measly pay bust their asses even harder just to pay into a high deductible insurance plan they may never use?

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I took a second job during residency. I sold Mary Kay cosmetics. It's how I put gas in my car and food on my table, which wasn't very much. And don't think that the hospitals where we train pay or subsidize housing for us. they don't. and training hospitals don't buy you meals either. half the time you don't even have time to eat. I remember being so poor during my residency that I had to raid the snack room for granola bars and orange juice. that's what I ate for a month.

Mistakes-It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

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[skyshrink 0]

Better yet, get real and have an attitude toward insurance and pharmaceutical companies.

Walt

[georgerussia 0]

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It just really sucks that instructors are "independant contractors" and don't have benefits or insurance from work.

I don't get what you want. Do you want the DZO to buy you health insurance, or you want him to pay for your insurance without deducting the cost from you?
If it is the first one, I basically see no difference.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Douva 0]

You're right, skyshrink, I jumped to the wrong conclusion about wildcard451. My assumptions about his financial situation were completely unfounded. I assumed, from his comments, that he is much further along in his medical career than he obviously is.

But if you look at wildcard451's response to my first post in this thread, you'll see that he seriously overreacted to my suggestion that being unable to afford health insurance is neither a death sentence nor financial suicide, and he made a very unflattering and unfounded attempt to characterize me as a deadbeat who believes people should shirk their financial obligations in favor of more enjoyable pursuits. So, although the cause may not be his financial situation, he is, for one reason or another, definitely out of touch with reality. His comments were out of line, and he deserved a new asshole.

And for the record, I never pointed my finger at him for making a good living; I pointed my finger at him for accusing people who don't make a good living of shirking their responsibility by not paying for health insurance. I'm not arguing the "haves" against the "have-nots;" I'm arguing to make the "haves" understand the plight of the "have-nots." For people who are truly, perpetually, indefinitely poor--meaning they won't ever be graduating from anything and getting better jobs that will allow them to pay off their debts--sometimes utility bills and childcare and things like that take precedence over health insurance premiums. It's a fact of life. And I'm not going to tell those people what they can and can't do with their recreational time, simply because I can afford health insurance and they can't. Maybe jumping out of an airplane once every couple of months is the only thing keeping them sane.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[wildcard451 0]

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You're right, skyshrink, I jumped to the wrong conclusion about wildcard451. My assumptions about his financial situation were completely unfounded. I assumed, from his comments, that he is much further along in his medical career than he obviously is.

But if you look at wildcard451's response to my first post in this thread, you'll see that he seriously overreacted to my suggestion that being unable to afford health insurance is neither a death sentence nor financial suicide, and he made a very unflattering and unfounded attempt to characterize me as a deadbeat who believes people should shirk their financial obligations in favor of more enjoyable pursuits. So, although the cause may not be his financial situation, he is, for one reason or another, definitely out of touch with reality. His comments were out of line, and he deserved a new asshole.

And for the record, I never pointed my finger at him for making a good living; I pointed my finger at him for accusing people who don't make a good living of shirking their responsibility by not paying for health insurance. I'm not arguing the "haves" against the "have-nots;" I'm arguing to make the "haves" understand the plight of the "have-nots." For people who are truly, perpetually, indefinitely poor--meaning they won't ever be graduating from anything and getting better jobs that will allow them to pay off their debts--sometimes utility bills and childcare and things like that take precedence over health insurance premiums. It's a fact of life. And I'm not going to tell those people what they can and can't do with their recreational time, simply because I can afford health insurance and they can't. Maybe jumping out of an airplane once every couple of months is the only thing keeping them sane.

You're right, utilities, bills, childcare all come first. Bravo for realizing that I applaud that responsibility. I am not going to tell anyone what they can or can not do with their recreational time. However, don't come crying to those of us who pay for our insurance to help you out when you fuck yourself up. At that point, suck it up cupcake. You made your bed, now sleep in it.

If you want to keep being a little bitch and veiling a personal attack at me then go right ahead. I don't give a fuck how out of touch you think I am with reality. I know what I see every day, and quite frankly, you have no fucking clue.

[bigbearfng 16]

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It just really sucks that instructors are "independant contractors" and don't have benefits or insurance from work.

I don't get what you want. Do you want the DZO to buy you health insurance, or you want him to pay for your insurance without deducting the cost from you?
If it is the first one, I basically see no difference.

I was looking for suggestions on how to make it easier/more affordable for instructors to obtain insurance, work comp, benefits.
As it's looking benefits are out. Work comp-there was an instructor that mentioned being able to pay into it. And quite a few good suggestions on health ins-sounds like form a group for group rates for affordability is best bet. If this could be done through the DZs or USPA is another question.
There's been a lot of talk about keeping the sport alive and how to con't to attract newbies. I really think Instructors should be considered in that equation and I havn't seen that mentioned.
I feel that good quality instructors are under appreciated; I wouldn't have gotten my A without them!!!
And now since this thread has gone way off from where I had hoped it would go and it's starting to turn into personal attacks I'm asking the Mods to lock it.
Thank you to the folk that contributed.

[Douva 0]

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You're right, skyshrink, I jumped to the wrong conclusion about wildcard451. My assumptions about his financial situation were completely unfounded. I assumed, from his comments, that he is much further along in his medical career than he obviously is.

But if you look at wildcard451's response to my first post in this thread, you'll see that he seriously overreacted to my suggestion that being unable to afford health insurance is neither a death sentence nor financial suicide, and he made a very unflattering and unfounded attempt to characterize me as a deadbeat who believes people should shirk their financial obligations in favor of more enjoyable pursuits. So, although the cause may not be his financial situation, he is, for one reason or another, definitely out of touch with reality. His comments were out of line, and he deserved a new asshole.

And for the record, I never pointed my finger at him for making a good living; I pointed my finger at him for accusing people who don't make a good living of shirking their responsibility by not paying for health insurance. I'm not arguing the "haves" against the "have-nots;" I'm arguing to make the "haves" understand the plight of the "have-nots." For people who are truly, perpetually, indefinitely poor--meaning they won't ever be graduating from anything and getting better jobs that will allow them to pay off their debts--sometimes utility bills and childcare and things like that take precedence over health insurance premiums. It's a fact of life. And I'm not going to tell those people what they can and can't do with their recreational time, simply because I can afford health insurance and they can't. Maybe jumping out of an airplane once every couple of months is the only thing keeping them sane.

I don't need a new asshole while we have you around.

You're right, utilities, bills, childcare all come first. Bravo for realizing that I applaud that responsibility. I am not going to tell anyone what they can or can not do with their recreational time. However, don't come crying to those of us who pay for our insurance to help you out when you fuck yourself up. At that point, suck it up cupcake. You made your bed, now sleep in it.

If you want to keep being a little bitch and veiling a personal attack at me then go right ahead. I don't give a fuck how out of touch you think I am with reality. I know what I see every day, and quite frankly, you have no fucking clue.

Where did I suggest anyone "come crying to those of us who pay for our insurance?" For someone pursuing a career usually associated with compassion for one's fellow man, you seem awfully concerned you might be asked to save the life of someone who doesn't have the cash to pay for your services.

"I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.....I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm." --Excerpt from the modern Hippocratic Oath, as penned by Louis Lasagna, former Dean of Tufts Medical School.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[ladyskydiver 0]

Here's another option for those that are AAA members. AAA does have insurance companies they work with and get people reduced rates - both regular health insurance as well as "emergency coverage" such as the below "Hospital Indemnity Insurance."

For the "Hospital Indemnity Insurance" rates, here they are. Don't know if the rates are comparable in all states but it's worth checking into for those who want coverage for hospital stays.

Option A
Ability to collect $3750.00 per month ($125.00 per day) covered hospital stays for sickness or accidents.

Monthly Premiums
Individual Plan $38.05
Husband & Wife Plan $71.90
All Family Plan $94.50
One-Parent Family Plan $60.30

Option B
Ability to collect $3000.00 per month ($100.00 per day) covered hospital stays for sickness or accidents.

Monthly Premiums
Individual Plan $31.85
Husband & Wife Plan $60.15
All Family Plan $79.65
One-Parent Family Plan $51.00

Option C
Ability to collect $2250.00 per month ($75.00 per day) covered hospital stays for sickness or accidents.

Monthly Premiums
Individual Plan $25.65
Husband & Wife Plan $48.40
All Family Plan $64.75
One-Parent Family Plan $41.70

Obviously, it's not health insurance that pays for doctor's visits, but it would help for accidents and sicknesses that land an individual in the hospital.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[white_falcon 0]

Don't know if AAA does, but MOST of those types of policies SPECIFICALLY exclude activities like ours.

I know for a FACT that AIG does 'cause I sell them.

Scott

[wildcard451 0]

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For someone pursuing a career usually associated with compassion for one's fellow man, you seem awfully concerned you might be asked to save the life of someone who doesn't have the cash to pay for your services.

"I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.....I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm." --Excerpt from the modern Hippocratic Oath, as penned by Louis Lasagna, former Dean of Tufts Medical School.

Quote some hippie "let's cure everyone" bullshit all you want......welcome to the real world. Medicine is a business sweetheart. I expect to get paid for what I do. Granted, it's only 15% worth of what I actually bill, but hell, it's a living.

If you had any clue, you'd shut the fuck up and walk away.

[Douva 0]

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For someone pursuing a career usually associated with compassion for one's fellow man, you seem awfully concerned you might be asked to save the life of someone who doesn't have the cash to pay for your services.

"I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.....I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm." --Excerpt from the modern Hippocratic Oath, as penned by Louis Lasagna, former Dean of Tufts Medical School.

Quote some hippie "let's cure everyone" bullshit all you want......welcome to the real world. Medicine is a business sweetheart. I expect to get paid for what I do. Granted, it's only 15% worth of what I actually bill, but hell, it's a living.

If you had any clue, you'd shut the fuck up and walk away.

I know that when I'm looking for a doctor, I always try to find one who refers to the Hippocratic Oath as "hippy bullshit." I try equally hard to find a doctor whose debating style involves referring to his opponent as a "little bitch" and telling him to "shut the fuck up"--preferably a doctor who will quickly reach such an inarticulate state when debating a guy who graduated high school through the mail.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[PhreeZone 15]

Thats enough.

I hoped this thread would stir some thinking and maybe even offer up some places jumpers could go for cheap insurance but it seems the minority wants to just poke at each other once again.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com