What killed my daughter's horse?

[steve1 5]

This may be really hard to figure out without an ortopsy by a vet. My daughter's horse died a couple days ago and the backhoe buried it yesterday.

Last fall we noticed this mare was losing weight. This spring she was getting real skinny. I had her teeth floated since she is about 15. I also bought some extra strength wormer that she ate in her grain for five days.

Since this mare was also lame we hoped to get a colt out of it. We took it to a stud with another mare and left them both for about three months. When we picked the mare up she was a walking skeleton. We were pissed that the owner of the stud hadn't called us.

We took the mare home and stupid me I figured I'd try to give her some extra nutrition and more wormer, in hopes of saving her. I don't think she was used to the extra grain and wormer I started giving her. I checked on her the morning she died. She winnied to me and was still on her feet. She could barely hold her head up. She walked behind me as if she was asking for help. She had been dead a long time when I checked her that afternoon.

We raised this mare from a colt. My daughter really loved this horse. I called her to give her the news. It was really hard. I think it was tougher on me than it was on her. It's kind of like losing a family member.

I kind of figure it was cancer or something like that. It's no fun losing a horse like that. I was afraid I was going to have to shoot it. I doubt if I could have done that though....Steve1

[Jewels 0]

I don't pretend to know the first thing about horses, but I'm really sorry. After all these years and a lot of pets, they still break my heart when they leave.

Edited to add that horses don't really seem like pets, but that's the closest analogy I have. My friends who own horses have a special bond with them.

TPM Sister #102

[mnealtx 0]

They definitely bond with their people... Even after 4 years of being away, I can still call one of the horses and he'll whicker and come to the fence for petting...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Jewels 0]

Wow! They also apparently have good memories.

Steve, I hope you can get some resolution and an answer as to what the problem was. It's hard not knowing.

TPM Sister #102

[lippy 787]

I don't have a whole lot of experience with horses, but I've seen enough of them to know how amazing of an animal they are and I'm sorry for your loss.

It sucks that the guy with the colt didn't call you when he saw her going downhill.

I got nuthin

[happythoughts 0]

15 is fairly old.

Poor care, intestinal problems - hard to say. Sorry about your horse.

I've seen them lose weight because of getting sanded in a poor pasture, intestinal blockages caused by foreign objects like string, mouth problems from eating lantana.

[Beerlight 0]

Sounds like a classic case of why didn't you take her to a VET?

[bodypilot1 0]

Why would you leave the horse for 3 months with a stud? If it came home malnutrition, why is it the other guys fault? A Stallion will keep a mare from feeding sometimes when competing for food. You should have left it for only a few days if it was only there to breed. The horse probably died of colic if it was already lame. Over feeding with a high alfalfa hay will cause colic in a malnutrition horse for sure. I have a 30yr old mare that went lame from over nutritious hay. She also got colic but it was caught before it got worse. Padded front shoes and a orchard hay solved the issue, and now she runs like a 15yr old.

Sorry for your lose....


Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[bodypilot1 0]

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15 is fairly old.

15 isn't old for a horse.


Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[Derekbox 0]

Sure instead of being proactive about a sick horse and asking a vet lets be reactive after the fact and ask a bunch of skydivers....

Anyone here a vet?

[Ripple 0]

Ed, are you talking about laminitis (sometimes called founder)? I've not heard of a case of laminitis actually killing a horse, although it is extremely painful and feeding lower grade hay, as you did, is essential to help treat the symptoms. I haven't heard of padded shoes, they sound excellent!

I, too, am surprised that the mare would be at stud that long. A mare's breeding season lasts about four days and these occur every couple of weeks. Studs, in my experience, will only keep a mare for two weeks, maximum. If the client's vet finds the mare hasn't ovulated after covering, the mare can then be sent back to the stallion, rarely will she stay at the stud inbetween times.

There does seem to be a link between mares going to stud and losing condition and this is corrected with feeding higher fat and fibre, lower protein content food. Many make the mistake of feeding alfalfa which is high in protein and very sweet thus does little for weight gain.

As far as the extreme weight loss goes, there could be many causes, as you know. Anemia, neutrophilia and eosinophilia as well as others, are all worth mentioning. Eosinophilia is sometimes inaccurately understood as intestinal parasitism, whereas, this is not always the cause.

Either way, I hope you get some answers, as has been said 15 years old is not old at all.

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[mamajumps 0]

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15 is fairly old.

Poor care, intestinal problems - hard to say. Sorry about your horse.

I've seen them lose weight because of getting sanded in a poor pasture, intestinal blockages caused by foreign objects like string, mouth problems from eating lantana.

I must disagree, 15 is not old for a horse, that comparaitive to someone in their late 30's as a person. My barrel horse that I have been running competitively since 2000 is approaching 18 and other than getting her teeth floated occasionally, she is in perfect health.

How long of a period was it where this mare was loosing weight? Did she have any other symptoms, IE running nose, coughing, labored breathing etc.... there are a myriad of things it could be and while I am not a vet, I have been riding horses since before I could walk and now I train where I live. If you had just given her a heavy dose of wormer before she died and she was infested with worms that could have done it, but if she had been on a regular worming schedule, Id say probably not. If I can be of any help, let me know. I know how it is to loose a beloved horse, my dad had to put my favorite horse to sleep (age 35) when I was in boot camp. He could no longer get up when he would lay down, so we all knew it was time to help him cross the bridge....

[bigway 4]

over here in australia there is something like 800 cases of horse flu at the moment and it has bought the racing industry to its knees here in NSW.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[peregrinerose 0]

I don't know what killed the horse, but I'm thoroughly impressed that you managed to raise a mare from a colt. I didn't know they could do that with horses.

Was it really a good idea to take a mare that was already losing weight from unknown causes to stud? Did you ever get her to a vet? Sounds like a less than responsible way to care for any pet, especially if you and your daughter loved her so much.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[steve1 5]

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Sounds like a classic case of why didn't you take her to a VET?

I did take her to a vet last Spring. Followed his suggestions and spent a lot of money. You may not realized it, but Vets don't work cheap. This horse was so far gone by the time I got her back from the stud, there probably wasn't much you could have done. Taking an old mare that is lame anyway, and then pumping hundreds of dollars into it, when it's going to die anyway, probably isn't too smart....Steve1

[steve1 5]

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Why would you leave the horse for 3 months with a stud? If it came home malnutrition, why is it the other guys fault? A Stallion will keep a mare from feeding sometimes when competing for food. You should have left it for only a few days if it was only there to breed. The horse probably died of colic if it was already lame. Over feeding with a high alfalfa hay will cause colic in a malnutrition horse for sure. I have a 30yr old mare that went lame from over nutritious hay. She also got colic but it was caught before it got worse. Padded front shoes and a orchard hay solved the issue, and now she runs like a 15yr old.

Sorry for your lose....

There is more than one way to breed a horse. Yes, you can wait till she comes into cycle and then take her to the stud. We tried that and for two summers and she didn't take either time. This year we decided to pasture breed her. So we left her with the stud. The plan was for a couple months, but due to obligations I couldn't pick her up for three months. The owner of the stud knows horses and I feel he should have told me she was going down hill. The other mare was fat when we picked her up. I didn't feed her alfalfa hay and didn't give her too much grain....Steve1


Ed

[steve1 5]

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Padded front shoes and a orchard hay solved the issue, and now she runs like a 15yr old.

Sorry for your lose....


Ed

I meant to add we also tried corrective shoeing. It doesn't help many horses if there is too much damage. Had the front foot xrayed. There was damage to the coffin bone. The damage was not in any way due to the wrong kind of nutrition. Spent a ton more money at the Vets, just to find out that there was nothing that could be done. We could have gotten really emotional and pumped a ton more money into her. At least we didn't put her down like many people would. We hoped to raise colts out of her, but that didn't pan out....Steve1

[Beerlight 0]

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Sounds like a classic case of why didn't you take her to a VET?

I did take her to a vet last Spring. Followed his suggestions and spent a lot of money. You may not realized it, but Vets don't work cheap. This horse was so far gone by the time I got her back from the stud, there probably wasn't much you could have done. Taking an old mare that is lame anyway, and then pumping hundreds of dollars into it, when it's going to die anyway, probably isn't too smart....Steve1

Steve, sorry for the loss, and yes I know vets are terribly expensive. .

[Ripple 0]

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I did take her to a vet last Spring. Followed his suggestions and spent a lot of money. You may not realized it, but Vets don't work cheap. This horse was so far gone by the time I got her back from the stud, there probably wasn't much you could have done. Taking an old mare that is lame anyway, and then pumping hundreds of dollars into it, when it's going to die anyway, probably isn't too smart....Steve1

I have to reiterate, 15 really isn't old. She should only have been halfway through her life, probably not even that.

In cases of chronic laminitis/founder where there can be no cure - as you found out last spring, it's kindest to put the animal to sleep right away.

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[steve1 5]

[


In cases of chronic laminitis/founder where there can be no cure - as you found out last spring, it's kindest to put the animal to sleep right away.

[Ripple 0]

Ah, no, not misread. I guess I thought that your lack of response about laminitis/founder meant that that's what she had and that, plus the problem with the coffin bone led me to think that laminitis/navicular syndrome were potential issues.

Ok, so it's far too complicated to make guestimates and as someone who's evented, point-to-pointed, competed at advanced dressage and worked at the Shadwell stud, I know, not only how difficult it can be to do the right thing at the right time in every medical case, I also know how painful it is to lose a much loved horse, which is principally why I posted.

As I said before, I hope you do find the reason for her demise

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[mnealtx 0]

Hi Ripple...

He's probably talking about pads between the shoe and hoof. Egg-bar shoes are pretty common for treating laminitis, in my experience.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[NtheSeaOrSky 0]

I know this is sad for you so I am not going to brow beat you, but I just have to get this one point out...you let this horse down, you cant change it now, but you CAN keep from doing it again in the future.

Horses are expensive, and vets are certainly not cheap. There are some parasites that they can acquire our regular wormers dont touch. They can get them from stagnant water and such, and you know there are many diseases they can catch from mosquitos and such as well. You just can't know if those played a role without a decent workup while the animal is still alive, or as you mentioned necropsy. Toss in the possibility of infections, colic, toxins, choke, and there is no telling what else...you just don't have any way of knowing.

The weight loss started LAST fall, the horse is already lame, so now she becomes a walking uterus?!?! Pregnant mares and baby horses take lots of vet visits and money too! The thing that tweaks me the most is taking an admittibly debilitated animal and using it for breeding. Many lame mares have to be bred with AI since the weight of the 'act of the deed' is too painful for them to stand during....but honestly....what did you think pregnancy was going to do in an already weakened animal of unknown cause Babies draw down even the fat and healthy ones sometimes, adding a 'uterine parasite' into an animal with already a bad nutritional plane is just plain IRRESPONSIBLE.

I understand your desire to breed her for a baby, but you knew long before you took her for breeding there was something amiss.

Just remember the heartbreak the next time you make a choice between 'tossing lots of money away' and getting a foal out of her before she goes. The babies don't tend to grow so well when the moms die


edited to add:
FWIW, many 'skeleton horses' come around and do ok when the source is discovered and put on a proper feeding plan. My gut feeling since you described her hanging her head...especially when her grain was increased and even more so if the grain was pelleted, was she suffered from an episode of choke - scarfing the food to quick and it expands in the esophagus and blocks it. Usually you see slime from the nostrils as soon as it happens, but if you saw her a while afterwards it may not have been there. Shot of oxytocin and/or a stomach tube passage (plus farm call fee of course) and you are looking at around $100 bucks.

Life is not fair and there are no guarantees...

[steve1 5]

[

The weight loss started LAST fall, the horse is already lame, so now she becomes a walking uterus?!?! Pregnant mares and baby horses take lots of vet visits and money too! The thing that tweaks me the most is taking an admittibly debilitated animal and using it for breeding. Many lame mares have to be bred with AI since the weight of the 'act of the deed' is too painful for them to stand during....but honestly....
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Well, I'll try not to brow beat you too much either...but I think you are being more than a little too judgmental here. Where I live we don't just keep horses for expensive pets. I you can't ride a horse what is it good for? Maybe we should have put this mare down a long time ago, but many people use lame horses for breeding. She had no trouble standing. She had a limp, and was useless for anything but a short ride.

You do have one valid point though. This mare was still losing weight last spring. We had her teeth floated. We didn't use an off the shelf wormer. The wormer we used was meant to kill the tougher parasites that common wormers don't kill. We hoped the problem was fixed.

Another thing you don't realize is that Vets are few and far between in our country. The house calls they make are extremely expensive. The mares and colts I have raised in the past did not take a lot of extra vet care or money. Most of my horses are grade horses and I don't spend the extra money on them that you might on a race horse....Steve1

[NtheSeaOrSky 0]

I realize a LOT more than you think

Like I stated before, I understand the reasons for wanting them bred. Many different people do it for a variety of reasons, and yes lame horses are most often broodmares. I would have the same issue with someone breeding a grade horse as a multimillion dollar horse - quite simply no uterus, no foal.

Without knowing what really happened, you don't know if it was an easy fix or not, if she was gonna die anyway or if she had lived another 15 breeding seasons. Whether they are 'expensive pets', 'business investments', or someone's 'livelihood' breeding a nutritionally unsound animal is irresponsible. You call it judgemental, I call it honesty. We can agree to disagree.

Glad to see you can get a dewormer for Clostridium out your way, wonder why they are keeping it under wraps on this side of the continent. Guess I need to move out where the mares are grown from colts to be privy to that.

You asked the question why something happened, people gave you ideas and opinions but the person with the best answers (your vet) was too expensive. I am not saying she needed whirlpool hydrotherapy or any of the other 'super fancy' treatments for anything. I am talking about restoring her nutritional plane before breeding.

You can make a limping/lame horse run a race, but it does not mean you should

Life is not fair and there are no guarantees...