IQ Testing

[kbordson 8]

I don't know whether this should come here or be in SC, but we'll start here and see how the responses go.

Last week, I got into a "discussion" with my sister. She wants to have her 13yo son IQ tested to show that his problem in school is cognitively based (ie she thinks he's below average). I am VERY MUCH against this idea. (I recommended testing for dyslexia, and other SPECIFIC learning problems). She wants to "show the school" that it's not her fault or his fault for him not learning. My argument hinged on the fact that this test will be a lose/lose situation for my nephew. If he does poorly - "see, he's an idiot. stop picking on him. he just can't understand. leave him alone." If he does well - "so, he's just a lazy slacker"

When my sisters and I were young, our grade school wanted to have everyone tested. My mother SPECIFICALLY argued against that and pulled us out of school for that day. Her thought was that she didn't want to set a bar on our potential (and with three competitive girls probably didn't want to hear the "Well, I'm smarter, DUMMY!" comments in the fights) My older sister has since taken an IQ test, but I have not. . . Unless you count those silly online things that probably don't really count.

We discussed this for probably close to an hour. Neither backing or bending. I'm just wondering, since she's so adamant on her view. . . might she be right? If this was your son, would you have him tested?

[BillyVance 34]

I would not have my child tested by the school system. Only by a private psychologist where the results are only known to the psychologist, me and the wife, and the child (who may or may not understand the scoring significance), and it would be nobody else's business to know what the score was unless a teacher or administrator absolutely needed to know.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[rehmwa 2]

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Her thought was that she didn't want to set a bar on our potential

nuts - we set our own bars by effort and attitude. IQ is just an assessment of potential, to make anything more of it is crazy.

I do think that a child with a mother that feels her child is below average will likely be below average regardless of his IQ. She needs to set expectations and support those expectations with 1 on 1 time sufficient to help him achieve those expectations. If he has low IQ, she'll have to invest more time, if he has high IQ, she'll have to invest less time.

But she's just looking for excuses to slack.

Test him. Or not. It's not the real issue.

(I think everyone should be tested, so we know how much work is in front of us - however, the kids don't necessarily need to to know their own scores - though encouraging high scoring kids to higher expectations is not out of line).

Edit: Billy's point is dead on target. That's a good way to handle it if you have people around you that aren't composed about these things.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[virgin-burner 1]

i got tested coz my teacher at the timedidnt want to promote me. my score was wasnt bad at all. must have been about the same age, maybe a bit younger.. you know the rest of my situation.

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

so, what you're saying is, someone with an iq of 75 could pass university? it'd only take them fourty years?

obviously you never took those tests, as time is also a counting factor..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[TrophyHusband 0]

there's a problem she's trying to solve, there's nothing wrong with having more information. i agree with billy that it should be done by an outside professional, and not the school.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[airtwardo 6]

I don't like them ...if the kid is having an ADD day or doesn't care about the test, they will score lower than their actual 'Q'.

Putting a number on a kids potential pigeon holes them possibly forever.

Remember...Einstein didn't test well either.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[kbordson 8]

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Edit: Billy's point is dead on target. That's a good way to handle it if you have people around you that aren't composed about these things.

I hadn't thought about recommending that he be tested privately and confidentially. That, at least, would be a bit more . . . . acceptable.

[BillyVance 34]

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so, what you're saying is, someone with an iq of 75 could pass university? it'd only take them fourty years?

obviously you never took those tests, as time is also a counting factor..

Consider that I scored higher on the IQ test than my brother did, at least 10 points higher. Not a lot of difference there, but he did end up being a mostly straight A student at a private college prep school, even acing Calculus 2. I struggled most of the time with B's C's D's and a few F's. Sure, being deaf skews the whole thing.

There is also the thing about being bored in class because you already know the stuff and don't even try for some higher IQ students.

All I see in the IQ test is how much work you'd have to do to get your kid to achieve his/her goals. Motivation is another factor, not just in the parent, but also in the kid. Work ethic is another factor. Get them in the mindset that hard work produces results, and make them earn it.

There's more, but I'd have to think it through.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[kbordson 8]

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there's a problem she's trying to solve, there's nothing wrong with having more information. i agree with billy that it should be done by an outside professional, and not the school.

Honestly, and this is ENTIRELY my bias, she's not looking to solve a problem. She's not doing this to help him learn, boost his confidence or make him feel better about himself. She's doing this to build an excuse. She claims to spend time helping him with his homework, but I know from others that live up there, that isn't true. In fact, when I went up to visit a few months back, she threw a significant temper tanturm (yes... 30+ and using such means to manipulate) to get me to come over and help him with his homework.

I wish she was doing this with HIS future in mind.

[TrophyHusband 0]

sounds like there is a much bigger problem than whether or not to get an iq test. it also sounds like she's making sure to activate her son's excuse gene. poor kid. hopefully you can be a good role model for him.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[kelpdiver 2]

The only reason to have a school run IQ test if it you stand to gain something for it, be it access to gifted classes, or access to 'special ed' classes. Otherwise, there's little upside, and high probability that teachers will pay less attention to him if their expectations are low.

If the whole point is to confirm he has a 95 IQ, what's the point? It won't change the world he lives in. Your idea of testing for learning disabilities is much more productive. So would afternoon classes from one of those growing number of private firms. There's very little material in the 7th or 8th grade that requires higher level thinking, just time working on it.

[kbordson 8]

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There's very little material in the 7th or 8th grade that requires higher level thinking, just time working on it.

Very good point!

[Conundrum 1]

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My argument hinged on the fact that this test will be a lose/lose situation for my nephew. If he does poorly - "see, he's an idiot. stop picking on him. he just can't understand. leave him alone." If he does well - "so, he's just a lazy slacker"

I vored DO NOT teste him for this exact reason.

[Shell666 0]

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My argument hinged on the fact that this test will be a lose/lose situation for my nephew. If he does poorly - "see, he's an idiot. stop picking on him. he just can't understand. leave him alone." If he does well - "so, he's just a lazy slacker"

I vored DO NOT teste him for this exact reason.

Me too.

Chelle, is the "teste" spelling because Doc is a Doc???

'Shell

[-Scatter- 0]

Is he a lazy slacker?

I don't see how he can lose being tested. Clearly, his mother already believes that he's slow. She's not going to change her bahaviour if this is confirmed. She's got no reason not to change her behaviour if its not tested. She's shown that she has faith in the results of this test, so if it turns out she's wrong, its a huge positive for him.

At the end of the day, its just a number. Some people chose to make that number their identity, usually because they have very little else going on in their lives. *coughMensacough*

Besides, even if he does test out with an IQ of 75, he could still grow up to be the president...

[Shell666 0]

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Is he a lazy slacker?

I don't see how he can lose being tested. Clearly, his mother already believes that he's slow. She's not going to change her bahaviour if this is confirmed. She's got no reason not to change her behaviour if its not tested. She's shown that she has faith in the results of this test, so if it turns out she's wrong, its a huge positive for him.

At the end of the day, its just a number. Some people chose to make that number their identity, usually because they have very little else going on in their lives. *coughMensacough*

Besides, even if he does test out with an IQ of 75, he could still grow up to be the president...

So what's your point for testing????

'Shell

[Conundrum 1]

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My argument hinged on the fact that this test will be a lose/lose situation for my nephew. If he does poorly - "see, he's an idiot. stop picking on him. he just can't understand. leave him alone." If he does well - "so, he's just a lazy slacker"

I vored DO NOT teste him for this exact reason.

Me too.

Chelle, is the "teste" spelling because Doc is a Doc???

Oh dammit, typo.

Maybe I need an IQ test.

[-Scatter- 0]

Because the mother will believe it. This obviously isn't about the son. Its about the mother.

*edit to elaborate*

For the purposes of discussion, lets ignore the whole "does IQ testing measure anything meaningful" and assume that a professionally given IQ test will give a reasonably accurate assessment of the kid's baseline intelligence.

The kid is not performing well in school right now. There are really two possible reasons why he isn't.

1) He's unintelligent, and performing according to his ability.

2) He's performing below his ability for some reason.

Mom clearly believes that #1 is true. I suspect that most of the people who have voted not to test believe #1 is true. The assumption is that if there's outside confirmattion that #1 is true, the kid's life is essentially written off.

But, what about if #2 is true? Quick personal anecdote. I transferred schools in 7th grade and throughout middle school was running about a C average. I got in about a dozen fights those two years. What would have happened if no one had ever said "John, you can do better"? I ended up being voted "most intelligent" of my graduating class in my senior yearbook...

I don't see the mom telling the son "You can do better" if she doesn't believe it. If he gets tested and suprises her (for whatever value of suprise. Maybe he's of average intelligence) then perhaps she'll reassess and tell him that. If he doesn't get tested, what evidence does she have that she's wrong?

[Shell666 0]

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Because the mother will believe it. This obviously isn't about the son. Its about the mother.

As you said, at the end of the day, it's just a number.

And I agree ... it's not about the child, it's about the mother. And, unfortunately, the number.

'Shell

[jcd11235 0]

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I think everyone should be tested, so we know how much work is in front of us - however, the kids don't necessarily need to to know their own scores - though encouraging high scoring kids to higher expectations is not out of line.

I was tested as a kid. I have no idea how I did.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Nightingale 0]

If the mother is as you describe, I don't think the test results will make a difference unless the kid somehow scores really well and it motivates him. I doubt it will make things any worse.

[Darktreader 0]

The IQ system is a flawed system. Its intent is to measure the potential learning capabilites of a person by testing what they should know given their age, education level, and location ,etc.. The test cannot be accurate all the time. There are way too many varibles that can distort the scoring process. Many people claim to have taken an "IQ test", however very few have taken the official IQ test the Wechsler_Adult_Intelligence_Scale, I have. Its a very exspensive test that lasts an average of 5 to 8 hours and can be done over 2 days, it has about a 4 hour written exam and about 2 hours of oral exams and can include a 1 hour psychological evalution. Testing from a private doctor range from 250 to upwards of 500 dollars, especially if a full psychological profile is done.
They should explain to her that if shes has him tested no matter what the results are at that point it can change thruout his life.
Its alot to go thru and while you may find that he not very receptive at the moment I dont think it will give an excuse for her. People can out grow things like ADD if you believe in that, people can train to learn different ways, certain learning disibilities can improve.

"Before we waste time talking and getting to know each other, let's just have sex once and see if we're compatible"

[kelpdiver 2]

> however very few have taken the official IQ test the Wechsler_Adult_Intelligence_Scale

And what makes that THE OFFICIAL test?

complexity, time, and cost doesn't make anything official, and not necessarily any more accurate either when test fatigue becomes a factor. Not to say the 8 minute variety you see on the web is preferable.

[billeisele 122]

seems like the mother needs some testing or counseling or both

if she is set on having him tested then do it privately, if the results are less than average then the mother should understand how best to communicate that to the kid - again she needs some counseling

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.