Tailgate for Skydiving Reserves

[ryan_turner 0]

Does anyone know if reserve manufacturers have considered using a tailgate to help control the lines? I was repacking my reserve last night and it would have been really nice to wrap something around some of the lines and make sure they stayed in the center.

[Treejumps 0]

The tailgate was designed for slider down deployments. It has no real effect (although some have started putting it on for good measure) on slider up deployment.

Are you really having that much trouble keeping the lines in the middle, or are you just worried about a random line over?

[ryan_turner 0]

I am not having any problems keeping the lines in the middle, but I think having a tailgate on it would add a little bit of security.

[Treejumps 0]

Any security would be a false sense of, which is better than nothing, but in reality it won't help. If its your gear though, do as you wish.

Cya

[460 0]

I would rather use a slider gate than a tailgate system. But I don't think either would be acceptable to an FAA examiner because it is not in the packing instructions.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[hookitt 0]

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Any security would be a false sense of, which is better than nothing, but in reality it won't help.

What's your reasoning behind that direct statement?

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[hookitt 0]

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I would rather use a slider gate than a tailgate system.

Why would a slider gate be better?

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Treejumps 0]

Because a tailgate doesn't affect a slider up deployment? As I acknowledged above, I understand that there are folks who believe that the TG is beneficial on slider ups. I can't see it hurting anything, but the slider is there to reef the canopy, and the TG as a backup isn't going to do a better job than the slider.

Or did you mean the false sense of security? A false sense of security is better than none at all. (this nugget of wisdom courtesy of Yuri)

Cya

[ryan_turner 0]

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I would rather use a slider gate than a tailgate system. But I don't think either would be acceptable to an FAA examiner because it is not in the packing instructions.

I agree and I always pack according to the manufacturers packing instructions. I was just wondering if any manufacturer has ever considered the addition of a tailgate.

[TomAiello 25]

I've moved this from BASE, and left a pointer in BASE.

It seems like the question ("has a manufacturer considered...?") is better asked in Gear and Rigging than in BASE.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[riggerrob 558]

I tried asking Todd Shoebotham (of BASIC Research) about adding a tail gate to a Stiletto, and he did not think it would help a main with a slider.

[linestretch 0]

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It has no real effect (although some have started putting it on for good measure) on slider up deployment.

if that was the case, then why are there still line over's on mains with sliders?

I've often wondered why reserves don't use them either.

my pics & stuff!

[diablopilot 2]

Because they are caused durring packing. A tailgate won't prevent that. A tailgat will help when you have a non-reefed packjob like a freepacked BASE canopy.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[linestretch 0]

so you are saying they will do NO good at all......really.....

my pics & stuff!

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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It has no real effect (although some have started putting it on for good measure) on slider up deployment.

if that was the case, then why are there still line over's on mains with sliders

[darkwing 4]

I don't have any data, but I still second your question. IF a tailgate helps prevent lineovers (which do happen on sport mains, and with lesser frequency on reserves), then perhaps consider them. At least we could get some hard data.

From observing MANY main pack jobs, I think it is largely (but not completely) an illusion that the lines stay in the middle of the pack job. The real question I have is how important is that to the development of line overs. Some version of a tailgate is well worth trying.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[diablopilot 2]

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so you are saying they will do NO good at all......really.....

IMO no. And the added complexity does not need to be added to what should remain a straightfoward and simple system.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[linestretch 0]

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to what should remain a straightfoward and simple system.

Yeah, totally agree.....assuming lineovers NEVER happen on sport mains....basically the same system as a reserve. I'm not saying they should be used or not be used. More of 'why not'.

And a tailgate isn't comlex by any means.

And if that was the attitude, then what would you have to say about the skyhook?

my pics & stuff!

[diablopilot 2]

No it's not complex, and I didn't say it was.


Anytime you add another complexity (even something as simple as a tailgate) you increase the chance of some sort of failure.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[rigger_john 0]

Here at my DZ we have a loop of tape on the rear of the slider, we put a rubber band on that and the control lines are held in the band.

This in on the student main canopies, similar idea to a tailgate, but easier.

I don't really know if it helps reduce or eliminate line over mals as I don't have the stats from before it came into use. But we rarely see them now, and even when they are reported I tent to find that it is more likely to have been some sort of entagelment in the susspension lines that has been the real cause of the mal.

_________________________________________

Nullius in Verba

[riggermick 6]

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to what should remain a straightfoward and simple system.

Yeah, totally agree.....assuming lineovers NEVER happen on sport mains....basically the same system as a reserve. I'm not saying they should be used or not be used. More of 'why not'.

And a tailgate isn't comlex by any means.

And if that was the attitude, then what would you have to say about the skyhook?

Line over mals on reserves are extremely rare. The current free bag/ line stow pouch system is more relaible than any of it's predecessors, statstics bear this out. Most line over mals are packing induced they don't "just happen" more often than not there is a cause and effect to this situation. Most line overs are generally brake line involved, meaning that proper line management was not used during packing. Riggers, in contrast to most jumpers are very cognizant about control lines and their placement during the packing process. They are fully aware that a sloppy mistake one may make on a main pack job causing a cut away will KILL someone if it happens on a reserve. As far as most riggers are concerned tail pockets add little to no value and will add more steps to an already complex procedure.

Mick.

[mnealtx 0]

Could someone post some pictures? I sort of have an idea what y'all are talking about, but would like to see one stowed/unstowed to get a better idea

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706