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Andybilly

Parachute packing

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Hi,
The easiest part of packing a canopy is to put the canopy in D-Bag!
Let me explain why!
One of the first thing you hear in a drop zone in relation of packing a canopy is how hard is to put the canopy in the bag. Not true!!
This is actually your brain recording somebody's frustation and your automatically think that it will happen to you too. True!!
I've teaching a lot of beginners and people that never skydived before as well.
So we can put as a 2 groups of people:
1-Beginners that were exposures to that comment above.
2-People that want to get a part-time job packing parachutes.
You know how hard it is to find a reliable packer!!!!
The group 2 never got exposured to that frustation comment from the group 1. So they don't have any problem to put "any" canopy in the bag.
I'm pretty sure you already heard that comment. That's why you're asking maybe, but remember, the easiest part of a packing job is to put the canopy in the bag.
It's all mental so have fun packing your gear for the next load. Remember, they'll not wait for you!!!!!
Cheers,
Gus Marinho
Rigging Solutions
Gus Marinho

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Man, you are cruel!

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One of the first thing you hear in a drop zone in relation of packing a canopy is how hard is to put the canopy in the bag. Not true!!
This is actually your brain recording somebody's frustation and your automatically think that it will happen to you too.



I'd rather take your years of experience away for days and having fun watching you to pack.

It could be realy long ago if you can not remember how to feel if you don't know what to keep, what to work with and what thing to take care in order to complete the packjob.

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You should publish your packing instructions!!! I'm sure that there is a great number of people that need to learn the easy way to get a brand new ZP chute into the d-bag.

I'm one of them! :)
"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

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Once you've packed it a few times, it really isn't all that bad. I've been a packer for a year and have a brand new Spectre. When I started packing, it would take an hour and a half to get that f-er in the bag sometimes:S I can now pack my main (and most other new ZP canopies) in 10 minutes or so.

Take your time, get all the air out as best you can. Find the balance between too much and not enough pressure with your knee when putting it in the bag. Try not to get frustrated when it takes you a few tries at first. Be patient with yourself.

Anyone who has seen me pack knows that the last two sentences above are what I preach, not what I always practice :P

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

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Can anyone give me an indication of how much harder it is for a newbie to pack a brand new ZP canopy compared to one that has been packed many times before



About 3 times as hard. But if you find packing old kit easy, then new stuff isnt that hard either.

Its just a matter of controling that top fold as youre putting it in the bag.

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Any suggestions on the top fold. I pro pack and I'm good all the way up to the last fold. Thats when I start running into problems. I have the sides push out, and it seems to inflate.....I also put both knees on directly after the last fold, and keep one knee onthe opposite side while putting in the bag.>:(

?????
SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

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Its hard to explain but heres what i do.

Im knealt on the first fold, one knee on each side of the lines so that bit is firm.

I then scoop the rest up off the floor with my forearms. forearms where the next fold is going to be.

Then I hold the material against my stomach with my left arm whilst i use my right arm to fold the top part back down.

The top flap of material is the bit that gets out of control, so i usually fold the corners in.

Ok somy left forearm is still in the fold and the rest is hanging over it. I use my right hand to tuck the right corner under and use my left hand to hold it there. Then i reach under the fold with my right hand and pull the left corner under.

Im left with a triangular top fold. Press it into the material thats against the stomach, take the fore arm out and hold it all together with the left hand.

Swap the knees for the right hand and fold the top bit down.

If its falling apart again put a knee in the middle and then tuck the corners back in, otherwise keep your left hand on top and slide the right one under.

I then press my chest on to the top of the canopy and lift it up between chest and right hand whilst pulling the bag under with my left. Put it on the bags flap then put a knee back on top.

get 1 corner in then the other. I usuall get the top flap in the bag then stand it up, hold it between my knees and push the 1st flap in further.

Thats probably a fairly worthless explanation but maybe theres something there you can use.

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Any suggestions on the top fold. I pro pack and I'm good all the way up to the last fold. Thats when I start running into problems. I have the sides push out, and it seems to inflate.....I also put both knees on directly after the last fold, and keep one knee onthe opposite side while putting in the bag.>:(

?????



Put the top fold in first. Hold it from underneath with one hand, S Fold the top fold and slide it into the bag. Slide the bag up on end and put the bottom S Fold in. That top fold is the one that wants to blow up, so get it out of the way first .......
Pete Draper,

Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right?

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That method works- also this one is one i was taught by a master rigger that helps me pack anything new- (I've been a packer for a year)


You basically make the two folds- and gently contain it. You open up your Dback so the bottom(back side) is on the floor, and than you tug on your lines (GENTLY ) 4 inches. You pick up the sfold and place it in the bag, and pull the corners around the package.

It works magic on slippery ZP fabric. I could never do the one fold- next fold thing to well- Id always make it a basketball.

Just what I do with new ZP.


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Put the top fold in first. Hold it from underneath with one hand, S Fold the top fold and slide it into the bag. Slide the bag up on end and put the bottom S Fold in. That top fold is the one that wants to blow up, so get it out of the way first .......



That's an excellent explanation!

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Come on Ian & Szelei, I just said what I see here and different DZ's all the times.
Tell me what was the first thing you heard about packing a brand new canopy in the bag!!!!
I had people here that never skydive before and learned to pack a canopy and guess what, they put the canopy in the bag in the first time without any problem. It's a fact that people say that to beginners.
Now, if you want me to teach you how to pack, it's not gonna be the same as your friend right beside you. Everybody has a particular technique to pack a chute.
Just watch your comments and use common sense dude!!!
Gus Marinho
Rigging Solutions
Gus Marinho

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I get them in the bag with skill (from practice) and determination.

You can strengthen your packing skills by giving free pack jobs to all your friends. B| That's what I do / did.

Technique is good but when I was a noob packer I couldn't implement a technique worth anything. I just had to keep packing whatever I could until I got the mad packing skeelz. (I'm still not lightning-fast, though, like a real pimp pro packer.)

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

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It can be a challenge to pack a new ZP canopy as the coating on the canopy makes it slippery and new packers don't typically have experience to know where to apply pressure and how much pressure to apply in order to control the fabric.

that said... with a little practice it becomes quite natural and not difficult.

Scott
Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

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Good luck, many jumpers have the same problem. The bagging begins with the gear. Is the canopies properly sized for the gear? If your having to pack 10lbs of shit into a 5 lb bag, ZP or F-111 will be difficult. F-111 still easier. If your packing the largest size main into the bag/ container it'll be difficult. New ZP as you know is very slippery. Learning to control that slippery chute is a task. Common problem I see is pressure,too much pressure being applied to slippery chute.Here's some general stuff. Once canopy is flaked and on the ground take a break. Get prepared to do the S-folds and bagging. Press air out very slowly, the more you rush the messier it gets. Be good at the S-folds. Once the S-fold is done use as light a pressure on the center of the S-folds as possible. Put too much pressure here and the canopy squirts to the sides then it's a mess. Try to make S-folds shape like a shoe box(rectangle) like the bag. It's good to have a bit of slack in the lines at this point as any tension pulled on the lines will cause the S-fold to come apart. Work one side of canopy and bag at a time. Slide bag under and over canopy one side at a time. Other than that observe others when you see it done well, try to learn from that person. If you ever run into me , ask.

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Come on Ian & Szelei, I just said what I see here and different DZ's all the times.
Tell me what was the first thing you heard about packing a brand new canopy in the bag!!!!
I had people here that never skydive before and learned to pack a canopy and guess what, they put the canopy in the bag in the first time without any problem. It's a fact that people say that to beginners.
Now, if you want me to teach you how to pack, it's not gonna be the same as your friend right beside you.



I disagree. Having trouble to bag a canopy is not a case of a mental fixation. I've seen student having trouble to bag a PD Navigator with some hundreds of jump into the right size of D-bag. Do you really think that hard for them because we told so? Nope. It hard for them, because they don't know how it should be done.

I do remember how was packing my brand new Pilot in September of 2004. It was really slippery from silicone and watching other to pack it did not really helped. I could see what they were doing, but I had no clue why, although I had 200-250 packjobs behind my back. I still remember how was packing my canopy with 9 jumps last spring when It was stored in a dry place.

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Everybody has a particular technique to pack a chute.


This is your true wisdom. Everybody should have a particular technique to pack a chute, or having problem with them. Or you can call it experience...

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This is your true wisdom. Everybody should have a particular technique to pack a chute, or having problem with them. Or you can call it experience...



Well said Szelei;)
I normally say to people that are learning to pack that I prefer to pack and deal with a brand new canopy than an old one. It's a good feeling to know you have a good chute over your head:)
Blue skies and be safe,
Gus Marinho
Rigging Solutions
Gus Marinho

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An Easy Way To Pack a Zero-P

by George Galloway
President, Precision Aerodynamics
Board of Directors , Parachute Industry Association
former Southern Regional Director, United States Parachute Association
This article appeared in December 1995 issue of Parachutist Magazine. I strongly encourage you to read the text of the article below, but if you prefer, you can skip straight to the step by step descriptions of the procedure.



It was many years ago when we received the first Strato Star in our area, complete with rings and ropes, and you never would have guessed that our small group of riggers had a combined experience of several thousand skydives, not to mention as much rigging and packing experience as most anybody else in the world. We must have really looked strange, the way we inspected, fondled, fumbled and speculated how this thing was supposed to go into that little backpack kind of thing that the manufacturer shipped with it. Of course, we hadn't yet considered looking at the Owners Manual; we wanted to figure it out by ourselves.

We all knew of the Barish Sailwings, and the Volplanes with hydraulic reefing. Some of us had even jumped the Para Sleds and Baby Planes, but none of us really knew anybody who had a lot of experience packing these things. These newfangled things. Back in those days, there were no packing videos. Very few companies published packing instructions with photographs. The ones that did, left it up to your own interpretation as how you were to get the canopy from "photo_A" to "photo_B". Many of the canopies which we used for both mains and reserves were simply packed as instructed, "pleat the gores in the normal manner", a phrase commonly quoted by many manufacturers in their instructions to riggers.

I remember one company that published its packing instructions on a little fold-out leaflet, so you could kinda carry it in your helmet to make sure you had it handy when it came time to fold the thing back up (the parachute) and put it into the container. The instruction sheet was harder to fold up than the canopy.

There were deployment devices such as sleeves, pods (para-opening-devices), bags, and slags (half sleeve/half bag). There were cones and grommets, and spring loaded everything, from pilotchutes to pack opening bands. There was no such thing as a pull-up cord, and I distinctly remember a kinda half hitch arrangement packed into the lines of one canopy to hold the bag closed which was referred to as the "dead-man knot". I know there are still a lot of people around who remember all of these things, but there are an awful lot of you who might not have a clue what all this mumbo-jumbo is about.

It's about packing canopies, of course, and mostly about packing square canopies in particular. Ram-air mains started catching on in the late 70s. Ram-air reserves started catching on in the early 80s. There have been as many different ways to pack a ram-air parachute as there have been models to choose from.

I personally know three different people who claim to be the inventor of the "propack", a method for packing ramairs which has become popular in recent years. I don't really have anything against the "propack", but what does that term really mean? If you ask ten different people to show you how to "propack", I will give you a dollar for each one who does it the same as the last. The "PRO" in propack is said to have been an acronym for "Proper Ram-air Organization". Maybe it should have stood for "Proper Ram-air Orientation" referring to the fact that for the first time a ram-air canopy was actually going into the container the way it was intended to come out. (You see, the early squares were packed by laying them on their sides before folding, a packjob which is still used quite successfully by many people. Some people erroneously think this "side-pack" method induces a 90 degree off heading opening. It's not true.) As I remember it, the original idea of the "propack" was to keep everything on heading, in theory, that is. That was a significant idea, and I agree that it worked to a degree, as long as aspect ratios were hovering around 2.0 and there were no coated fabrics or complex airfoils.

In the early days of propacking, there was no mention of awkward techniques like stuffing the leading edges into the center cell to "reduce opening shock", or rolling the nose past the "B" lines to ease the pain induced by the parachute opening sequence. These bastardizations to an otherwise pretty good packjob came along to help skydivers deal with more complex airfoils and fabrics. Talk about producing an off-heading opening! Some of the things we hear and see about how people are currently packing out there in the real world are a true test and testament to the reliability of the ram-air parachute.

Parachute packing procedures have continued to develop along with the development of new canopy designs. When we first started droptesting the Batwing , I wanted to have a pack job which produced consistent openings, of course, but it also had to be a packjob which wasn't such a hassle to get into the bag.

I started out by thinking I might have modify the parachute design to accommodate the problem of getting the trapped air out of the Zero-P canopy, but then, that didn't really make much sense. I had gone to a great deal of effort and calculation to design this airfoil, so why would I want to go and cut it full of vents just to get into the d-bag? What I needed to do was to develop a method of folding the canopy which exhausted all of the air out of the airfoil where it entered in the first place, at the leading edge.

A "regular" propack might have been OK, except that there was always this huge bulging bubble when I laid the canopy down on the ground. You all know what I'm talking about. There ought to be a name for this thing. I'll call it the "bubbulge". It is (was) a problem.

Another problem was that contortionist procedure thing I always had to do in order to get the canopy all stacked up so I could smash it down into this little bag. After the canopy is finally crammed in, the bag always looks like it is about half as big as it needs to be. That's because all that fabric is in there, slipping around on itself, trying to fill back up with air, and you don't have a new rubber band in your pocket! Damn!

What I ended up doing to remove all of this frustration is really simple. I will attempt to put it down into words, although I might run the risk of just confusing you more.

I have to say at the outset, that while this packjob has worked successfully for us in over a thousand documented deployments in the past year, neither I nor USPA can be responsible for you or your equipment if you try to pack this way. At Precision Aerodynamics, we pack all of our demo equipment this way, and we base the reputation of our product on its consistent results. You have to realize that your interpretation or misinterpretation of these words may lead to canopy damage, bodily injury or death. You must pack your parachute any way you want to. It's your canopy and you are the one who is jumping out of the airplane. Accept the risk and be responsible for yourself. Having said that, I will cautiously continue to try to describe the procedure.

It is always important to inspect the entire assembly and determine that the system is airworthy. Make sure that the canopy's direction of flight is correctly oriented to the harness. For the purpose of this article, I am going to simply focus on the "canopy folding procedure" which has been so very successful for us.

Lay the container on the floor, harness down, and stow the brakes in accordance with the container manufacturer's instructions. Split the line groups and run the slider up toward the canopy, observing that the leading edge of the canopy is hanging at your knees with the trailing edge of the canopy away from you. Work the fabric which is between the line groups to the outside of the lines, and continue for all sections of the canopy. This "accordion folding" A-B section, the B-C section, and the C-D section is intended to minimize fabric/line friction during extraction from the bag, as well as minimize the pack volume as a result. The idea here is to keep all of the line attachment points toward the center of the packjob, with the fabric folded to the outside.

It is important that you pay particular attention to the location of the "D" lines and the "control lines" in particular. It is imperative that you maintain the relative position of these and all lines throughout this process, or you might end up with a malfunction caused by these lines migrating up to and in front of the leading edge of the canopy during the rest of the process. The leading edge is neither rolled nor stuffed. Just leave it there exposed, even with convicted "hard-opening" canopies. We have seen this packjob tame even the baddest of the bad.

The slider is neatly "cloverleafed" into position so that it is quartered into the hanging canopy and against the slider stops. Bring the center of the trailing edge up and hold it under your thumb while you roll up the hanging sections of the trailing edge. So far, this resembles what is commonly referred to as a "propack".

Here is where everything changes. Flip the canopy around now, so that you are actually inducing a 180 degree line twist into the packjob. Continue to roll the canopy up at the trailing edge, which now overlays the leading edge. You are really creating a pretty tight cocoon. Now you should be standing there with the canopy hanging from your right hand, with your right hand still controlling the slider's position and the trailing edge, and your left hand controlling the cocoon. The bag and pilot chute are hanging from the bridle attachment point, and as you swing them out of the way, you flop the cocoon to the floor, retaining control over the position of the "D" lines and control lines with the placement of your left hand as the bundle hits the floor. You have maintained line tension with your right hand through this process, and the only difference in this and an otherwise "normal" propack is that now the container is looking down and the canopy is looking up. Don't worry about that for now.

Replace your right hand with your right knee and your left hand with your left knee to continue control of the bundle. You now have a triangular shaped bundle with the rolled trailing edge facing up, covering the leading edge of the canopy. Fold the "ears" in so that the entire canopy portion is slightly less than bag-width. Pull the bridle attachment point out to one side or the other, and start to roll the canopy up like a sleeping bag from the top to the bottom. Keep the roll tight, and maintain the roll to be the width of the bag. The bridle ring needs to be pulled far enough out from the center of the roll (the axle) that it can be wrapped around the outside of the roll and maintain contact the grommet in the bag. This is important.

When you roll the bundle all the way down to the point where the lines come out of the canopy fabric, it is quite easy to see that you can control this small bundle/roll with one hand, holding it like a football. While holding the canopy roll in your right hand, it is easy to slip the deployment bag over the roll, but make sure that you place the bag on "upside down" because, remember, the canopy is still 180 degrees out relating to the container. Now with the canopy in the deployment bag, you will notice that there is absolutely no tendency for the bagged canopy to fill with air. It is not trying to escape from the bag. It is not sliding all over itself making your life miserable.

This is the point at which people say, "What if you forget which way you turned it?", referring to the 180 degree half-twist you put into the lines a few minutes ago. Well, simply stated, just don't forget, because now is the time to take that half twist out by rotating the bag back to normal. (Note: if you accidentally do turn the bag the opposite direction, it should be very obvious that you have a severe line twist in your packjob.) Simply rotate it back the other way. If you have maintained sufficient line tension during the rollup process, this will not be a problem. If you are completely confused, start over.

Now close the bag, stow the lines, and close the container "in the normal manner".


There is a video on the Precision website that shows this method in detail, most people call it "Psycho packing" I have been doing this for about 4 years now and I always have soft, clean, and on heading openings, there are also pictures.

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I normally say to people that are learning to pack that I prefer to pack and deal with a brand new canopy than an old one.



I'm not an instructor, I teach packing from student time to time on student equipment. I think that should be the first step. It is not nice to throw non-swimmers in deep water.

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It's a good feeling to know you have a good chute over your


Yeah and you can render it to something else or lost it after cut-away.
A good chute is not necessarily a brand new one.

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Yeah. I've read it.

Sounds nice. I've asked about my ex-instructor/mentor.

I've got a strait answer. If I want to jump in that certain club I would not do psycho/precision-pack.

How does it sounds?

BTW I've tried to roll my canopy the way it was suggested. That was not any easier either.

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There is a video on the Precision website that shows this method in detail



http://www.precision.aero/packing/mvc-002v.ram

But unfortunatly, my real player says something about not being able to start up a browser....can't get the video running....

The photo's however at http://www.precision.aero/omega_pack.htm
show not only A and B but there are 28 of them, so you could say it is A to Z++...

Should be sufficient.... :)

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

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