packing a PD Sabre1...

[mattjw916 2]

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If the original Sabre is such a horrible main, wouldn't all those people who put hundreds and thousands of jumps on them be saying the same thing you are?

O RLY!!?

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Sabres do bang open on occasions - one damaged my neck and I was wearing a normal helmet’

“I saw video of a sabre opening that resembled a bomb going off:”

“ The hard openings got so bad that I began to have a phobia about deploying.”

“I got a enormous spanking on a jump in Skydive Arizona a couple of years back. Was in such agony i had to spiral down to get the weight on my feet and *off* the inside of my thighs. Bruising was quite bad”

“Upon deployment I got absolutely SPANKED!!! Sore back, risers grazed my face and gave me a gash over my eye, threw my goggles around so I couldn't even identify my canopy's condition...I mean SPANKED”

“I bought a brand new Sabre 135 in Jan 2000, and it often opened hard, and really beat the shit out of my neck on one jump”

“Sabres have been known to slam their fair share of jumpers, “

“I had a Sabre and experienced a lot of hard openings”

“I would say I have had half a dozen hard openings, but when it slams, it slams”

“my first canopy was a saber 150 and it slammed me all the time! “

“ “When I had it relined, that's when it really started to pound me.”

“I have seen a Sabre open in about 50 feet. I was videoing the student and he didn't have line dump. It was a brutal opening.”

“I had a Sabre 190 which gave me a mild concussion on opening once”

“So far, the only actual account we have as to what "might" have occurred at opening time is from the person involved -………..
He is in ICU and in a few days we'll talk with him again to see if he can recall anything else.”

“i fractured my c6 on opening with a sabre135.”

“Every 30 or 40th or so opening would either slam me or be a rock and roll ride“

”although I did get slammed so hard it ripped my helmet right off once! “

“I have 150 jumps on one. The hard openings got so bad that I began to have a phobia about deploying “

“I had a Sabre and experienced a lot of hard openings. Didn't seem to matter how I packed it.”

“on the 170 its smack smack smack.”

“I have a Y2K Sabre150 with 200 jumps. The darn thing started spanking me BAD!”

“The Sabre was notorious for hard openings. I spent a couple of days on a couch with ice on my neck.”

“I've got about 50 jumps on Sabres, whacked four or five times out of that. No, I never could pack it not to whack,”

“ have a sabre 150 and have something like 150 jumps on it and I've only had two or three extremely hard openings.”

Sabres have a reputation for opening hard on occasions, and in my experience (250 jumps on Sabres), this is definitely deserved,”

“I don't care HOW you packed them, eventually you were going to get the shit smacked out of you.”

“I aquired bruises on my inner thighs and hips from one hard ass slammer Sabre opening....”


“had an extremely hard opening... And got knocked unconscious. When I woke up, I couldn't see anymore... “

“it was a massively hard opening. I've seen pics of ripped canopies but nothing like this.”

“I heard they will have hard openings... they weren't kidding. I jumped this canopy twice and the second opening rocked me.”

“I used to just cringe right before I threw the PC when I had my Sabre. You just knew it was coming and there was nothing you could do.”

“I packed his Sabre 170 ,to make a long story short he left in a van with lots of pretty lites on it “

“Yeah Sabres will do that. I had a hard opening on mine. 170, 1.45:1, opened so hard it broke the skin on my legs and left an outline of my legstraps.”

“I would still get an occasional spanker even with a pocket slider,”

“I have a Sabre 170 loaded at 1:1, and about 5 weeks ago I too had an opening that was so hard it left me groggy for a few moments. After about 230 uneventful jumps on that canopy, I had 2 brutal openings in 2 months”

“I had a VERY hard opening about 5 weeks ago. Didn't fully lose consciousness, but was unresponsive for some unknown amount of time. No serious injuries--very painful stress fracture of the sternum kept me on Vicoden for 3 weeks.”

“You may get slammed on occasion”

“The Sabre 1 is known for slamming people”

“Yes, sabres open hard from time to time.”

“yes sabres's are know to whack ya every once in a while”

“Yeah they open hard unexpectedly sometimes,”

“Sabres will occasionally open hard,”

“By reputation, some sabres open harder than others. “

“I got really hard openings every jump. “

“I got my teeth rattled a few times.”

“My back -- like 4 years later -- is still sore from a sabre opening”

“I don't like Sabress. All my experiences with Sabres's have been unpleasant. I primarily mean the openings,”

“I have experienced the Sabre Spank' on a 150, and have the X-rays to prove it..”

“I have a Sabre 190, and most of my opennigs just beat the crap out of me!!!”

“I jump a sabre-1 and it's given me bruises a couple times,”

“I have video of a sabre opening in about 75 feet, extremely hard “

“Openings were problematic at first,”

“A lot of people complain of hard openings,”

“Lots of u guys out there r trying to blame your hard Sabre openings on the pack job...”

“I have approximately 1,100 total jumps on sabre 150's and sabre 135's and have
experienced a handful of rather brisk openings and 2 of them were excruciating and kept me from jumping for the rest of the day.”

“Openings are not so great. In my opinion it would be one thing if it opened hard all the time or soft all the time but it does not. Some openings are good others are not”

“Pack carefully, handle the wraped up slider as you would an atomic bomb - as thats what it is! Let the thing slip everywhere then shove in the bag; You will be sorry..”

“but about 75% of the time, I get these opening that make me flinch and tighten up every muscle in my body in fear of the opening. Most Sunday nights, when I am driving home, my neck hurts like I was in a car accident, and I have bruises on the insides of my legs that just shouldn't be there... I have tried everything- rolling the nose 4-4, tight rolling the nose together, tight rolling the tail, stowing my lines tight, etc... Nothing helps, don't know what to say about the opening, but I can't wait until I get my PISA Hornet...”

“Openings have been brisk, but I've never been slammed (although I lent my rig to a friend and she said she was).”

“I've had a very bad opening about every two or three. No matter what I did, tens of rolls everywere or no rolls, spend 1 hour and a half packing it,use the tighest rubber bands ever, it used to hit me.”

“I had an instant canopy that knocked the wind from my body. I was in such pain that all I wanted to do was land. After landing discovered the leg straps had grazed the skin from my inner thighs. The next day I was barely able to stand and the black bruising around my thighs meant I looked like I was still wearing my harness.”

“I was wacked so hard that I had a compression fracture of T6 and a cracked T12 along with a neck sprain.”

“in my 90 jumps on it, I had 3 soft openings. This thing was killing me. I had it relined by PD as soon as I bought it and no matter who's advice I took or what I did, I was constantly seeing stars. I tried rolling the nose tightly all to one side and going to the back, I tried nothing with the nose, I tried splitting the nose, I rolled the tail unbelievably tight and still the openings stunk. After an opening where the slider came down fast enough to rip the rubber stops and put a rip in the slider and wrap itself around my face, so all I saw was the orange slider (nice backdrop for the stars), I got rid of it and bought a spectre 150, and will never look back.”

”Most of the openings on Sabres are ok, but it's those slammers! One in every 70 or so jumps, no matter how carefully you've packed, even if you've packed exactly the same as the last 70 pack jobs they can bite. I had one opening on my Sabre 135 that was so hard I thought I had broken a rib! I could give you plenty of examples of experiences friends of mine have had with bad Sabre openings... by and large the openings on the Sabre are fine but when they bite they're nasty!”

“Used to fly a Sabre, and the openings where so bad I had no intentions of ever buying another one”

“I jumped my 170 Sabre for about 40 times until I realized that my neck could handle about 50 more openings.”

“harder than the saber i used to fly and that spanked me on a regular basis.”


“This was welcome from the ever surprising Sabre slam that comes when you least expect it. “

“It just comes out of no where. Don't do anything different packing,and all the sudden your looking for the train....”

“the sabre has a reputation for hard openings”

“Any canopy that requires a modification to the slider to tame the openings has more than packing issues”


”i wouldn't wish one on my worst enemy....ok, maybe on my worst enemy, but nobody else...”

“it is the lightly loaded sabre's that tend to be more violent openings. “

“I have been whacked a few times on the 150 and 107”

“I've had a few harder openings,”

“I had one that tried to kill me. Saw a Racer completely ripped apart by one.Met a girl from Virginia that has scars on her head from the halo head thingy after breaking her neck.All on 170s.”

"Sabre 1 - reputation for hard openings - not all examples - can easily be tamed “

“My personal opinion is that the Sabre sucks. I can count the number of times I've been whacked under canopy on one hand and I think 4 out of the 5 whackers were under a Sabre.”

”I experienced the hard openings, still 'enjoying' one I had more than a month ago”

“I'm getting a bit scared to pull: my poor back.”

“best way to make a sabre open softer...
Sell it.”

“My Sabre 150 used to whack me every once in a while (bruised rib)”

“Mine didn't slam me too badly until I had it relined”

“I have had one extremely hard opening that about broke me in half,”

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[NelKel 0]

You cann add these to your list if you want.

1 opened so hard it totaly knocked all the wind out of me, left me gasping for air, panting.

2 opened so hard it hyperextended my left knee, left me so daised and confussed I chopped linetwist at 1800 ft. couldn't get the momentium to kick out with the damanaged knee, couldn't figure what else to do.

_________________________________________

Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan

[davelepka 4]

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burying the slider as deeply in the canopy as possible

Thats not helping anyone.

The idea with the slider is to allow it to A) catch as much air as possible, and B) to block some of the air from the nose.

Packing wise, the slider is THE key to good openings, more so than nose treatments. Make sure that it is firmly on the stops, and quartered evenly between all line groups. Be sure that the center of the slider is pushed down all the way. Then, when you go to wrap the tail around the pack job, get it most of the way around, and do one last check the center of the slider is still down, and (without distorting the rest of the slider too much) pul a little more of the slider towards the nose. Now spread that part fo sldier out sideways so it looks like it will catch air.

Take care during the rest of the pack job to be gentle with everytning. Tossing the canopy down, or being sloppy with pushing out the air or folding it, will just ruin the pack job you just did.

If you do consider another slider, which can work, make sure it's the same size spanwise (left to right). A bigger spanwise measurment allows the line groups to spread further apart, and seems to allow the nose to open up a little more, which will speed up the openings.

An extra inch or two chordwise (front to back) will help to hold the slider uplonger and keep the nose in check during opening.

The bottom line is that you are dealing with a canopy that is 'opening challenged'. ou can take steps to make it better, but if you forget a step, it may hurt. If you should end up with a rouge hard opening it will really hurt. The best choice is to find a canopy that seems to open slower without the special treatment.

[davelepka 4]

Lets keep in mind when you get down on the Sabre that it most likey has some of the highest production numbers of any ZP canopy. The more of them there are, and the more jumps that are put on them, the more problems you will see.

Also, they're all getting old, and not everyone relines their canopies the way they should. Often times it is a price motivated purchase, and with a well used Sabre selling for $400, the cost of a reline really increases the cost factor.

Lets remember too that they are often bought as first canopies, which means sloppy and inconsistant packing. Many of the Sabre supporters are either more experienced, or use a good packer.

It's true that the design is older, and the parameters for good openings on ZP were a little different back in the day. People didn't expect an 800 ft snivel, and manufacturers didn't work toward that. Compare the size of a Sabre slider to a similarly sized newer canopy, and you'll see that sliders have grown. Alot.

I have owned two Sabres, a 135 and a 107. Both of them treated me well, with one or two hard openings out of 500 and 700 jumps on them. I was more experienced when I was jumping them, and I always packed carefully, and didn't use a packer.

A well packed, and well maintained Sabre will give you the same occurance of hard openings as any other canopy.

[skybytch 259]

How many of those openings were packed according to the manufacturer's instructions? How many of those canopies that opened hard had line sets that were out of trim? How many of those canopies had pocket sliders installed? How many of those hard openings could have been caused by line dump? How many of those hard openings could have been caused by pitching in a steep track? How many of those hard openings could have been caused by sloppy packing?

I could go on, but since you've already made up your mind and I've already made up my mind there's no point.

[arlo 0]

ask someone to show both of you how to "quarter the slider." quartering the slider allows it to do its job (which is to slow down the opening).

also, make sure the slider grommets remain firm against the slider stops on the canopy up to and including its insertion into the d-bag.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

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...yeah get rid of it and buy a modern canopy.

For some people buying a "modern" canopy is not an option. An original Sabre is a good choice for those who can't afford a newer design used zp canopy but don't want to buy a much older design F111 canopy.

I'm still trying to get my arms around the statement that a Sabre-1 isn't a "modern" canopy, but then again I've been in the sport longer then the average 5 to 6 years...

[n23x 0]

Good god, are we on this bandwagon AGAIN!?

Just to throw in my 0.02$, I think the Sabre can be a fine canopy, and don't think it's trash. I agree that some can slam, but I don't think that it's an unfixable issue. Nor is it a killer issue.

To skybytch:

I owned both a Spectre and original Sabres, and I can honestly say that the Spectre has whacked me the hardest. I couldn't agree more with what you said.

To the original poster:

A lot of things can affect how these canopies open, and there are a lot of different options to modify the openings to your own comfort level.

Just don't jump on the "Sabres will break into your house, steal cash from your dresser, and knock up your daughter" mentality, like SOME people on this forum.

Approach it analytically, involve an experienced rigger/packer for slider/packing help, and then enjoy the hell out of that canopy.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[Elisha 1]

Again, those such as skybytch and hookitt have much more credibility than you and your undue paranoia. You can spew all the anecdotes you want, but the simple facts of the number of Sabre1s sold due to length of Production ('89 to '01) and Performance Designs having top market share combined with a higher propensity to have hard openings would produce anecdotes like you show. I'm sure we can construct a similar list with a Spectre from known hard openings.

I demoed a Safire2 at Eloy and thought it sniveled too long! I'd like to get something a size down from my Sabre (e.g. Sabre2-135), but more due to perfomance . I'm not worried about my openings and my Sabre was manufactured 3/91.

[mdrejhon 8]

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Some Sabres just do that and you have to live with it or get a new canopy. We have a Sabre that we have tried every known technique to slow down openings and it still kicks peoples ass.

Which one would that be, so I can avoid it?

FWIW, I fly a Sabre 170. The openings are brisk but I am okay with them (opens in 600-700 feet.)

[skyfreek 1]

i had problems with my sabre 120. opened hard. it is old and might need a new lineset. i called pd and they sent a new bigger slider to me. problem solved! soft , slow openings now

[Elisha 1]

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FWIW, I fly a Sabre 170. The openings are brisk but I am okay with them (opens in 600-700 feet.)

That sounds nice - not "Brisk"!

[mattjw916 2]

Made any skydives recently? Nope? Still dispensing advise, huh? Yeup, nothing has changed.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[teason 0]

His comments were valid, don't throw stones.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

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Made any skydives recently? Nope? Still dispensing advise, huh? Yeup, nothing has changed.

Matt,

How many jumps do you have and how many years in the sport? Just currious since its not in your profile and you seem to base the value of what someone has to say on how much they jump.

[mattjw916 2]

Zig,

My profile has as much information in it as I care to share. Having witnessed several negative incidents over the years on this forum (Aggiedave's and PhillyKev's to name a few) I choose not to fill in any additional information. End of story.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

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Zig,

My profile has as much information in it as I care to share. Having witnessed several negative incidents over the years on this forum (Aggiedave's and PhillyKev's to name a few) I choose not to fill in any additional information. End of story.

Fair enough... but you may wish to not leverage your comments (posts) vs. others based simply on whether or not you're more current / have more jump numbers then someone else as you did with your reply to N23X even with your personal decissions on how much information to disclose to insulate yourself from what ever negativeity it is you wish to avoid and still be taken seriously.

Sorry, its a "pet-peave" with me when I see other jumpers play the "I've got more jumps then you" or "I'm current, you're not" card. Sure, there are situations where this carries weight... but most don't... however, that behavior is somewhat pervasive here in DZ.Com and its frustraiting.

[justinb138 0]

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How many jumps do you have and how many years in the sport? Just currious since its not in your profile and you seem to base the value of what someone has to say on how much they jump.

He started AFF at the end of June '04 so he probably hasn't made thousands of jumps (I'd guess around 400 so far). He finished AFF in a week or so. He hit 40 jumps around Sept '04. non-jumping related stuff edited out He loads his Nitron around 1.2.

[PROGRESSIVE 0]

Take a small piece of webbing, big enough to stow a rubber band on it and stitch it to the nose of the center cell.

When you bring up the slider, stow a byte of the slider in the band a couple of times. This would hold the slider up until the canopy begins to inflate.

Just my idea.

[mattjw916 2]

Congratulations, you contributed nothing useful to the thread, and most of the information is plain wrong...

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[justinb138 0]

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Congratulations, you contributed nothing useful to the thread, and most of the information is plain wrong...

The infomation I posted was only stuff you posted on here personally, so either it's accurate or you're a habitual liar.

The threat via PM was a nice touch too.



There are plenty of people at my home DZ that jump Sabre 1's, and are very happy with them.

Since you seem to hate them so much, have you ever even jumped one?

[mattjw916 2]

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There are plenty of people at my home DZ that jump Sabre 1's, and are very happy with them.

Why don't you ask the guy that femured right in front of me at your home dropzone how much he loved his Sabre, or maybe why he was loading it at ~1.4 at ~100 jumps.

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Since you seem to hate them so much, have you ever even jumped one?

I haven't jumped a Nova either, does that disqualify me from making a recommendation to someone jumping one that he should shelve it immediately lest it kill him? One does not need to hold ones hand in fire to know it _will_ burn.

Since you have already proven your skill at using the search button, why don't you do some searches on Sabre hard openings and report back what you find.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[justinb138 0]

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Why don't you ask the guy that femured right in front of me at your home dropzone how much he loved his Sabre, or maybe why he was loading it at ~1.4 at ~100 jumps.

1. I don't know who you're talking about.
2. Why would that make the Sabre a bad canopy?

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I haven't jumped a Nova either, does that disqualify me from making a recommendation to someone jumping one that he should shelve it immediately lest it kill him? One does not need to hold ones hand in fire to know it _will_ burn.

No, but were not talking about Novas, we're talking about Sabres.

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Since you have already proven your skill at using the search button, why don't you do some searches on Sabre hard openings and report back what you find.

No need to. I've seen plenty of threads about hard openings, including threads about Sabre2s, Safires, Stilletos, Velocitys, VX's and other canopies.

Statistically speaking, there are a hell of alot of Sabres out there, which means that there are probably going to be more hard openings from Sabres than other canopies, it doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

[mattjw916 2]

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There are plenty of people at my home DZ that jump Sabre 1's, and are very happy with them.

I can name dropzones that do all kinds of extremely dangerous and scary things, does that make it okay for everyone?

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Why would that make the Sabre a bad canopy?

It shows a lack of mentoring that lead to an incident.

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No need to. I've seen plenty of threads about hard openings, including threads about Sabre2s, Safires, Stilletos, Velocitys, VX's and other canopies.

Statistically speaking, there are a hell of alot of Sabres out there, which means that there are probably going to be more hard openings from Sabres than other canopies, it doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

Obviously you know nothing about statistics since generally you have to calculate them before you use them to refute something. I'll do it for you then... if you add up all the threads about Safires, Stilletos, Velocitys, FXs, VXs, and just about any other canopy you can think of it won't even come close to equalling the number of threads about Sabres opening hard. Hmmm... that argument seems to be getting a little weak.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[Feeblemind 1]

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Good god, are we on this bandwagon AGAIN!?

Just to throw in my 0.02$, I think the Sabre can be a fine canopy, and don't think it's trash. I agree that some can slam, but I don't think that it's an unfixable issue. Nor is it a killer issue.

To skybytch:

I owned both a Spectre and original Sabres, and I can honestly say that the Spectre has whacked me the hardest. I couldn't agree more with what you said.

To the original poster:

A lot of things can affect how these canopies open, and there are a lot of different options to modify the openings to your own comfort level.

Just don't jump on the "Sabres will break into your house, steal cash from your dresser, and knock up your daughter" mentality, like SOME people on this forum.

Approach it analytically, involve an experienced rigger/packer for slider/packing help, and then enjoy the hell out of that canopy.



.jim

Sorry to be the voice of reason here, but looking at you numbers and ratings (or lack there of) I would take Bytch advice over yours hands down. But that's just me.

Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked