Mozencrath 0 #1 December 2, 2005 I am undecided between purchasing a Microraven Reserve or a Smart reserve.....Which way would you guys lean? My dropzone is closed for the winter so I really have no one to ask... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spoons 0 #2 December 2, 2005 If i were buying a new reserve (out of the two choicies) - I would buy a Smart reserve since I've heard good things about them and they have good reinforcment too (spanwise). Just my opinion. Maybe worth searching the forums on both the reserves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canuck 0 #3 December 2, 2005 Smart, hands down. If anything from Precision, then get a R-max. Why no PD? Price? You'll get it all back on resale... Canuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mozencrath 0 #4 December 2, 2005 QuoteSmart, hands down. If anything from Precision, then get a R-max. Why no PD? Price? You'll get it all back on resale... Canuck Yes, price basically.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #5 December 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteSmart, hands down. If anything from Precision, then get a R-max. Why no PD? Price? You'll get it all back on resale... Canuck Yes, price basically.... What size are you looking for? I've seen a few used PDR and Smart reserves for sale over the past few weeks. Edit: Nevermind, saw the wanted ad. Try these: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=28698&d=1 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=28099&d=1 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=27950&d=1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #6 December 2, 2005 PD-R's are worth every penny. Don't let price hold you back from a good container or reserve. Your life is on the line. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #7 December 2, 2005 Quote QuotePD-R's are worth every penny. Don't let price hold you back from a good container or reserve. Your life is on the line. Could not agree more. MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #8 December 2, 2005 Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks 0 #9 December 2, 2005 you two get a room! with that said. i have to agree. but i have heard good things about the smart. hmmm im going to get them to send me a demo.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #10 December 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteSmart, hands down. If anything from Precision, then get a R-max. Why no PD? Price? You'll get it all back on resale... Canuck Yes, price basically.... Your reserve is not the item to be cutting costs on. I am not endorsing PD, Smart or Precision. But you should make your decision on quality not the cost. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mostly_Harmless 0 #11 December 2, 2005 Check out the skydivestore (www.skydivestore.com). Art is having a sale on precision canopies, including the reserves! Right now they are selling brand new for under $1,000._________________________________________ www.myspace.com/termvelocity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peckerhead 0 #12 December 2, 2005 Both Precision and Aerodyne make nice reserves. Don't get fooled into thinking you have to buy the most expensive reserve to be "safe" PD makes a nice reserve but the Smart is also a very well built, safe, and reliable reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #13 December 2, 2005 Quote Both Precision and Aerodyne make nice reserves. Don't get fooled into thinking you have to buy the most expensive reserve to be "safe" PD makes a nice reserve but the Smart is also a very well built, safe, and reliable reserve. The MicroRaven is not a nice reserve. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #14 December 2, 2005 QuoteYes, price basically How much more is a PDR going to cost? $200? $300? Take that money from somewhere else in your rig budget. Maybe reduce your budget for your main, you'll be buying used and replacing it before too long anayway. You'll be able to hold in to the reserve for longer than a main, and when you sell, you'll get the money back (but you'll turn around and spend it on a smaller PD reserve). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #15 December 2, 2005 If your profile is correct (42 jumps/4 years), you might want to ask an instructor about the size of the reserve you're looking for. A 126 is a pretty small canopy, even if you're a lightweight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,435 #16 December 2, 2005 >Both Precision and Aerodyne make nice reserves. I've seen several people hurt themselves trying to land Raven/SuperRaven type reserves. I don't recommend them to people any more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #17 December 2, 2005 At one time I was a micro-raven fan but that has changed. One problems people have with them is the control stroke is very short. Most canopies have a long control stroke and that's what jumpers are used to. A usual scenario: A malfunction occurs and the jumper cuts away and goes to reserve. They fly back to the landing zone with out giving a control check and they flare hard right before landing. The control stroke on a raven is so short that it stalls rapidly and dumps the jumper onto his back. PD has a a longer control range and great flight characteristics. A panic flare on a PD generally will not cause the canopy to simply fold up behind you. I would suggest a PD over a micro raven any day. I have not flown an R-Max. I have flown a micro raven 135, 120 and 109. Also a PD-R 106. The 106 was much easier to fly and land. The control range was quite long for such a highly loaded canopy and the stall point was much lower. It was easy to land. Remember, no matter what reserve you choose, if you find yourself under it, do a canopy contol check. TimMy grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #18 December 2, 2005 Also FWIW, if you have a chance to demo your choice of reserve before you buy one, it's a good idea to do so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nicknitro71 0 #19 December 2, 2005 The new R-max, the Smart, and the PDR are all great modern reverves that will even tollerate dumb-ass overloading. I'd jump any of those. Just keep mine below 1.3 Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peckerhead 0 #20 December 2, 2005 Quote>I've seen several people hurt themselves trying to land Raven/SuperRaven type reserves. I don't recommend them to people any more. Interesting.....I have made over 800 jumps on a super raven as a main canopy and always had great landings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #21 December 2, 2005 Any thing works well if you fly it on a regular basis. If you are used to say, a sabre 2 or pilot with a long control range, then find yourself under a raven (especially one smaller than the main) for the first time and panic flare it, it will fold up and dump you on your back. I agree that it's a good parachute but I still wouldn't recommend it for a newer jumper. Trends are now that the reserve tends to be smaller than the main, at least until the jumper has more experience. Take that scenario and flare too hard. I've watched several people flare last moment and find themselves lying on their backs with the wind knocked out of them. Even though it's pilot error for over flaring, why have one when there are much better flying/flaring reserves?My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peckerhead 0 #22 December 3, 2005 I don't understand this. I have always considered the raven to be a docile, predictable , and easy to flare canopy. The two reserve rides I have had on ravens were soft, tippy-toe stand-ups. Maybe I just had better training Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #23 December 3, 2005 What's your wingload Load it up and then just cram on the brakes and watch it fall off backwards. I've landed a 109, 120, 135 and it was fine. Then again, my first landing on a 135 was after 1200 jumps. It flared at my shoulders and the remaining range was very small. It would begin to stall just past my shoulders. The ad for the R-Max shows a jumper landing in the peas with his arms fully extended. There's a reason for that ad. The short control range that everyone complains about has been addressed. Do the same thing on a Super Raven. I dare ya My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 70sdiver 0 #24 December 3, 2005 call ralph hatley in oregon he has a lot of pd reserves .He gets good deals from pd on reserves that are new bit maybe 2 years old.Thats where i got mine for a big discount. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 561 #25 December 3, 2005 QuoteI don't understand this. I have always considered the raven to be a docile, predictable , and easy to flare canopy. The two reserve rides I have had on ravens were soft, tippy-toe stand-ups. Maybe I just had better training >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of the people who complain about Raven reserves load them more than the manufacturer recommends. Ravens were originally designed to be loaded about 0.8 pounds per square foot and not much more than 1:1 as reserves. Even Chris - at the factory - admitted that Ravens fly poorly when loaded beyond 1.4. Then he launched into a sales pitch about how Precision's new R-Max reserves fly so much better. He was right. I hopelessly over-loaded an R-Max 118 last month. Since I had it open by 2,000, I had plenty of time for practice flares and chasing my cutaway main. After three practice flares, I concluded that it was best to flare the R-Max to the bottom of my ribs. I landed in softly in a muddy farmer's field, only went down on one knee. Conclusion, if you are dumb enough to load a Precision reserve beyond manufacturer's recommendations, buy an R-Max. 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marks 0 #9 December 2, 2005 you two get a room! with that said. i have to agree. but i have heard good things about the smart. hmmm im going to get them to send me a demo.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #10 December 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteSmart, hands down. If anything from Precision, then get a R-max. Why no PD? Price? You'll get it all back on resale... Canuck Yes, price basically.... Your reserve is not the item to be cutting costs on. I am not endorsing PD, Smart or Precision. But you should make your decision on quality not the cost. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mostly_Harmless 0 #11 December 2, 2005 Check out the skydivestore (www.skydivestore.com). Art is having a sale on precision canopies, including the reserves! Right now they are selling brand new for under $1,000._________________________________________ www.myspace.com/termvelocity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peckerhead 0 #12 December 2, 2005 Both Precision and Aerodyne make nice reserves. Don't get fooled into thinking you have to buy the most expensive reserve to be "safe" PD makes a nice reserve but the Smart is also a very well built, safe, and reliable reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #13 December 2, 2005 Quote Both Precision and Aerodyne make nice reserves. Don't get fooled into thinking you have to buy the most expensive reserve to be "safe" PD makes a nice reserve but the Smart is also a very well built, safe, and reliable reserve. The MicroRaven is not a nice reserve. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #14 December 2, 2005 QuoteYes, price basically How much more is a PDR going to cost? $200? $300? Take that money from somewhere else in your rig budget. Maybe reduce your budget for your main, you'll be buying used and replacing it before too long anayway. You'll be able to hold in to the reserve for longer than a main, and when you sell, you'll get the money back (but you'll turn around and spend it on a smaller PD reserve). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #15 December 2, 2005 If your profile is correct (42 jumps/4 years), you might want to ask an instructor about the size of the reserve you're looking for. A 126 is a pretty small canopy, even if you're a lightweight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #16 December 2, 2005 >Both Precision and Aerodyne make nice reserves. I've seen several people hurt themselves trying to land Raven/SuperRaven type reserves. I don't recommend them to people any more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #17 December 2, 2005 At one time I was a micro-raven fan but that has changed. One problems people have with them is the control stroke is very short. Most canopies have a long control stroke and that's what jumpers are used to. A usual scenario: A malfunction occurs and the jumper cuts away and goes to reserve. They fly back to the landing zone with out giving a control check and they flare hard right before landing. The control stroke on a raven is so short that it stalls rapidly and dumps the jumper onto his back. PD has a a longer control range and great flight characteristics. A panic flare on a PD generally will not cause the canopy to simply fold up behind you. I would suggest a PD over a micro raven any day. I have not flown an R-Max. I have flown a micro raven 135, 120 and 109. Also a PD-R 106. The 106 was much easier to fly and land. The control range was quite long for such a highly loaded canopy and the stall point was much lower. It was easy to land. Remember, no matter what reserve you choose, if you find yourself under it, do a canopy contol check. TimMy grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #18 December 2, 2005 Also FWIW, if you have a chance to demo your choice of reserve before you buy one, it's a good idea to do so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #19 December 2, 2005 The new R-max, the Smart, and the PDR are all great modern reverves that will even tollerate dumb-ass overloading. I'd jump any of those. Just keep mine below 1.3 Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peckerhead 0 #20 December 2, 2005 Quote>I've seen several people hurt themselves trying to land Raven/SuperRaven type reserves. I don't recommend them to people any more. Interesting.....I have made over 800 jumps on a super raven as a main canopy and always had great landings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #21 December 2, 2005 Any thing works well if you fly it on a regular basis. If you are used to say, a sabre 2 or pilot with a long control range, then find yourself under a raven (especially one smaller than the main) for the first time and panic flare it, it will fold up and dump you on your back. I agree that it's a good parachute but I still wouldn't recommend it for a newer jumper. Trends are now that the reserve tends to be smaller than the main, at least until the jumper has more experience. Take that scenario and flare too hard. I've watched several people flare last moment and find themselves lying on their backs with the wind knocked out of them. Even though it's pilot error for over flaring, why have one when there are much better flying/flaring reserves?My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peckerhead 0 #22 December 3, 2005 I don't understand this. I have always considered the raven to be a docile, predictable , and easy to flare canopy. The two reserve rides I have had on ravens were soft, tippy-toe stand-ups. Maybe I just had better training Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #23 December 3, 2005 What's your wingload Load it up and then just cram on the brakes and watch it fall off backwards. I've landed a 109, 120, 135 and it was fine. Then again, my first landing on a 135 was after 1200 jumps. It flared at my shoulders and the remaining range was very small. It would begin to stall just past my shoulders. The ad for the R-Max shows a jumper landing in the peas with his arms fully extended. There's a reason for that ad. The short control range that everyone complains about has been addressed. Do the same thing on a Super Raven. I dare ya My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
70sdiver 0 #24 December 3, 2005 call ralph hatley in oregon he has a lot of pd reserves .He gets good deals from pd on reserves that are new bit maybe 2 years old.Thats where i got mine for a big discount. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #25 December 3, 2005 QuoteI don't understand this. I have always considered the raven to be a docile, predictable , and easy to flare canopy. The two reserve rides I have had on ravens were soft, tippy-toe stand-ups. Maybe I just had better training >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of the people who complain about Raven reserves load them more than the manufacturer recommends. Ravens were originally designed to be loaded about 0.8 pounds per square foot and not much more than 1:1 as reserves. Even Chris - at the factory - admitted that Ravens fly poorly when loaded beyond 1.4. Then he launched into a sales pitch about how Precision's new R-Max reserves fly so much better. He was right. I hopelessly over-loaded an R-Max 118 last month. Since I had it open by 2,000, I had plenty of time for practice flares and chasing my cutaway main. After three practice flares, I concluded that it was best to flare the R-Max to the bottom of my ribs. I landed in softly in a muddy farmer's field, only went down on one knee. Conclusion, if you are dumb enough to load a Precision reserve beyond manufacturer's recommendations, buy an R-Max. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
