Beer 0 #1 February 10, 2009 I thought there used to be a forum here for recovering alcoholics. My uncle is going thru some pretty rough shit right now and has turned back to the bottle. I'm trying to be there for him, giving him an open ear to talk to, but there is only so much I can do. I'm looking for some places online I can direct him to, weather they be chat rooms or message boards, where he can talk with other people that are or have gone thru similar things. He knows he has a problem. He's tried AA, but it seems the vast majority there are in the program because it is part of their probation. They go out and get trashed after the meetings. It hasn't done him much good. I really need to help him, I don't know where to turn. Learn to be happy. You can't be there for anybody else in life if you can't learn to be there for yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #2 February 10, 2009 and you turn to a SKYDIVING-forum, about an ALCOHOLproblem!? oh, the irony.. the subforum you meant was the drunk dial list probably, but those people actually enjoy getting drunk.. google is your friend “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piahenzi 0 #3 February 10, 2009 As the wife of a recovered/ing alcoholic of 12 years...who has sponsored many - I've seen rehab be a good start. - followed with an honest search for a good sponsor in AA. I can't believe that there is not ONE AA meeting that has real recovered /ing alcoholics that can help. You can always go to an Alanon meeting to get more information as well. If you want to talk more, pm me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micduran 0 #4 February 10, 2009 Tough road. I lived with an alcoholic parent for way too long. Recovery can't be done alone. Get some help. Alanon for you AA for him. Good luck.Be patient with the faults of others; they have to be patient with yours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #5 February 10, 2009 Most of my relatives are alcoholics. I watched my brother drink himself to death. My wife's dad did the same. He died alone at Christmas. AA can be a wonderful program. I'd look for another one to join. I wish I could have done more to save my brother. He never admitted he had a problem, right up to the end. He never joined AA either. I think with the right support, he may have been able to quit. Mental illness such as depression is often a factor that goes along with dependency issues. Many treatment centers only treat the addiction issue. These clients often return to drinking. They are self medicating their other problems..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LisaH 0 #6 February 10, 2009 AA is a wonderful avenue as is Al-Anon for you. Counseling for the underlying problem is something that should really be considered. Rehab programs provide this. Being a good support system is important, but there is only so much you can do. With as mean as it may sound, you can't hold his hand. Ultimately, he has to want to get help and get sober. Been there done that. Best of luck to you both.Be yourself! MooOOooOoo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #7 February 10, 2009 My Dad was a severe alcoholic. He realized his problem and tried to quit more than once. He went to treatment a couple times, and even quit for a year. During times of stress or turmoil he always returned to the bottle. It was like an old friend that never let him down. I think his real issue was growing up in a dysfunctional home. Actually it was growing up in a situation where noone wanted him and being moved from home to home at a young age. That is something you just don't get over. I noticed when he tried to quit drinking, after treatment, he was very very depressed. Too bad he couldn't have had ongoing therapy, support, and medication to help him get through life without alcohol. We now know more than we did then. We still have much more to learn. My father should have received dual diagnosis treatment. There are many treatment centers that do not look very deeply into a person's mental illness issues. Some think that drinking is the only real problem that needs treating. The treatment Dad went through involved drinking alcohol that had a chemical in it to make you vomit. I'm not sure if such treatment still exists, but it didn't work very well. My father never joined a support group such as AA. I'm sure it could have helped a lot. His real issue, underlying his drinking problem, was depression. It runs in our family. There may have also been some PTSD issues from his dysfunctional childhood. His mother died at a young age, and he did experience a lot of trauma for a kid. At any rate he ended up, later in life, becoming an alcoholic and a terrible parent..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #8 February 10, 2009 QuoteYou can always go to an Alanon meeting to get more information as well. ...although you might not want to mention that your screen name is "Beer". On the other hand, maybe you should. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #9 February 10, 2009 AA - well, I know just a very little about that organization. I researched it some back when I had an alcoholic partner for two years. I was disappointed that it seems to be an organization devoted to God. For example, here are the 12 steps of AA: Quote 1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable. 2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him. 4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. 5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. 6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. 7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings. 8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all. 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. 10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it. 11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His Will for us and the power to carry that out. 12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs. So that made me wonder, is there an AA for atheists? I mean, if you can't get to the point where you believe in God in the first place, how are you supposed to use him to stop drinking? My ex definitely didn't believe in God - I was willing to go with her and support her in the meetings, but I didn't want to participate in prayer sessions. I thought there should be an AAA (Atheist Alcoholics Anonymous), but if you have those stickers on you car, you are probably going to get towed.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,121 #10 February 10, 2009 A chapter sponsored by a Unitarian Universalist church is less likely to be as God-oriented. Regardless, if you ask at one, they can probably refer someone to a group that is less God-oriented. Some say "higher power" instead of God. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #11 February 10, 2009 The treatment Dad went through involved drinking alcohol that had a chemical in it to make you vomit. I'm not sure if such treatment still exists, but it didn't work very well. Antabuse® Naltrexone Campral® As far as it not working well, I had a friend that was on Antabuse...he drank anyway. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jamiem 1 #12 February 10, 2009 QuoteSo that made me wonder, is there an AA for atheists? I mean, if you can't get to the point where you believe in God in the first place, how are you supposed to use him to stop drinking? My ex definitely didn't believe in God - I was willing to go with her and support her in the meetings, but I didn't want to participate in prayer sessions. I thought there should be an AAA (Atheist Alcoholics Anonymous), but if you have those stickers on you car, you are probably going to get towed. It is still weird to me to this day to hear my Father say the serenity prayer. He is not religious at all...but it's not about God, it's about some form of higher power. They don't believe that "God" will save them, they just know that something bigger than them is controlling them with the alcohol and it's admitting that they can't do it alone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piahenzi 0 #13 February 10, 2009 It's God based and that's what makes it work for so many. That is for sure. I was uncomfortable with it myself when my husband went from staunch atheist to a fervent "born again" (He was not living with us during this transition). It was a difficult adjustment, but over the years, it has mellowed. I accepted it and the 12 steps and the tenets as written, because it worked for him (so far) and has kept him sober for over 12 years. The personal decision to accept God is just that, personal. The reasons for accepting God, especially when you've hit "bottom",and are really really ready to accept the alcoholic label, may be very different for a person than for someone who has not. As far as some accepting another "higher power" - no one that has been in our circle of recovered/ing for 10+ years has any other than God. AA, done "by the book", works as written in the strictest interpretation - this only from my perspective and experience but it's been a while now... I did not, however, find AlAnon to work for me, nor am I all that comfortable in the meetings I go to to present my husband his annual coin...but suck it up and I go, prayers and all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gravitysurfer 0 #14 February 10, 2009 Wendy's answer is dead on. I believe there's a chapter (4?) in the Alcoholics Anonymous Big Book directly addressing Athiests and Agnostics. For many their "higher power" is the AA group fellowship and it's experience, strength and hope in and of itself. AA is NOT a religious program, it's a spiritual one. Religious people are afraid of dying and going to hell. Spiritual people have already lived there. aloha. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piahenzi 0 #15 February 10, 2009 http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_bigbook_chapt4.pdf This is the section to Agnostics from the Big Book...for those interested in going a bit closer to the source. (I'm sorry, I don't know how to make it a clicky) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #16 February 10, 2009 QuoteAA is NOT a religious program, it's a spiritual one. And atheism is not spiritual. If you want to play both sides of the field, there are the agnostic and/or pantheism genres. I'm sure people that believe in mysticism of some sort can mold their beliefs enough to fit within the framework of AA. But Atheists? It sounds to me like AA is trying to push God in some form, shape or function.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #17 February 10, 2009 QuoteQuoteAA is NOT a religious program, it's a spiritual one. And atheism is not spiritual. If you want to play both sides of the field, there are the agnostic and/or pantheism genres. I'm sure people that believe in mysticism of some sort can mold their beliefs enough to fit within the framework of AA. But Atheists? It sounds to me like AA is trying to push God in some form, shape or function. Yes and no. The short version of the first 3 steps is: 1- I can't 2- He can 3- I'll let him. The alcoholic is someone unable to control their drinking. Accepting that lack of ability to control and surrendering it(first step) then requires that the control be given to someone or something else. (third step) In betwen is deciding who/what that power is. For most people, that is a god of some sort. But not everyone. Many people use the group as a higher power- This is a large group of people who have the ability to stay sober. Others use the sun (has the power to keep all life on earth going). It ultimately is an individual choice. Unfortunately, some groups forget that and insist that the god of their choosing must be the best one, and push it on all."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gravitysurfer 0 #18 February 10, 2009 Fair enough. I'm sure there's many others that feel the same as you. Are you an athiest? What alternative then would you recommend for the OP's uncle? aloha. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #19 February 10, 2009 As far as i've seen and read about the AA.... The AA are a group of people preying on the vulnurable. If someone told me im not bigger than my problem and need to accept "God" or a "higher power" to cure myself i'd throw my empty bottle at them.1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #20 February 10, 2009 QuoteAs far as i've seen and read about the AA.... The AA are a group of people preying on the vulnurable. If someone told me im not bigger than my problem and need to accept "God" or a "higher power" to cure myself i'd throw my empty bottle at them. Just out of curiosity, how are they preying? They are a group of people who have found a way to stop drinking, and offer it to anyone who wants it. No dues are required, a basket is passed. No attendance is taken, no tests are given. You don't even have to stop drinking. The only reqirement for membership is the desire to stop. They offer a solution, and have success- to the point that drug addicts, sex addicts, food addicts and gambling addicts use the same basic program."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #21 February 10, 2009 Its in their steps to accept God or a higher power, which is preying. If thats not preying on vulnurable people i dont know what is. It can be done without throwing religion or spirituality into it.1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beer 0 #22 February 10, 2009 Quote ...although you might not want to mention that your screen name is "Beer". On the other hand, maybe you should. I was wondering when someone was going to bring that up. Ironically I'm not really a big drinker. I home brew, bring crazy beers to share at the DZ, and have a fairly good amount of knowledge of what goes into making different styles of beer. Anyway, I know he won't get better if he isn't ready to give it up. He was talking about rehab. I think he was trying to find something today, with my mother's help. He definitely has people to support him when he needs it. Learn to be happy. You can't be there for anybody else in life if you can't learn to be there for yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gravitysurfer 0 #23 February 10, 2009 QuoteIt can be done without throwing religion or spirituality into it. And that is encouraging to hear. So I'll pose the question again. How? What successful alternatives are out there? I'm truly interested to learn. What can we recommend as a possible solution for Derek's uncle? aloha. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #24 February 10, 2009 This isn't rocket science, how about a self help group without God thrown in? I'm sure google will help and im too lazy. Empower the person, not take what little power they have left from them. I come from a long line of alcholics and none went to AA. They realised they had a problem and fixed it, others didnt. A friend of mine also used pills that would make him extremely sick. So sick he couldnt use body spray without feeling odd due to the alcohol in it.1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gravitysurfer 0 #25 February 10, 2009 It's good to hear that it worked for them to fix it. Though asking most alcoholics to just quit drinking is like asking them to just speak Russian. I personally haven't heard of any other self help groups with a success rate even close to AA but am interested to find any. At the risk of violating any of the 12 AA traditions I'm going to bow out now but thanks to all for your input. My personal program of recovery is working for me so I'm probably going to stick with it. Some day I wish I'll know the right words to share with the still suffering alcoholic that's completely turned off by the spiritual side of AA. I've just heard too many folks say that rehab, pyschiatrists, priests never worked in the long run and I don't know of many alternatives. If something works to keep them alive and to prevent them from hurting or killing others then I'm all behind it. My heart goes out to the OP's uncle. 'BEER' PM me if you'd like. aloha. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
