Argus AAD

[Ron 7]

Just met with Karel Goorts this Saturday at the wind tunnel about the Argus AAD.

I'm not sponsored, I'm not an owner...ect. So I have no reason to like it, other than what I have seen and what I have been told...(OK, they did give me a Tshirt, but its an XL...So the first big guy I see that wants it, gets it).

It seems like a good unit. He sat down and showed me a test unit and it seems pretty damn easy to use.

Some things I liked:

Easy battery replacement, and its a battery that you can get for 10 bucks at Walmart. Seems like it will need to replaced every year, but at 10 bucks a pop its not bad.

It can have several modes: Standard, Tandem, Student, Swoop. But it only comes with one. So you only have to stock one type of unit, and then you can load the other ones that you want. It costs more for the loads, but most people will not need them, so why have them?

It will have a checkup that will need to be done. But it will be done locally by trained riggers with the right equipment.

The company seems to be really testing the hell out of these things. They are going to release about 50 to jumpers that jump tons and send another 50 to a lab to get tested till destruction.

The projected cost was less than both the CYPRES and the Vigil....But I'll wait to see when it actually is for sale to see if that stays true.

The unit I looked at was still a prototype, and the proof will be in the testing.

But it looks pretty good to me so far.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[ryoder 1,400]

Now can someone 'splain to me the difference between "Standard" and "Swoop" when the specs in the FAQ are exactly the same?

http://www.argus-aad.com/FAQ.asp

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Ron 7]

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Now can someone 'splain to me the difference between "Standard" and "Swoop" when the specs in the FAQ are exactly the same?

I think the Swoop mode the ADD turns inactive once the main canopy is open.

So if you were to open then cutaway...No AAD will fire.

It was set up that way since some modern canopies could fire an AAD in a hook turn.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[tso-d_chris 0]

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I think the Swoop mode the ADD turns inactive once the main canopy is open.

So if you were to open then cutaway...No AAD will fire.

It was set up that way since some modern canopies could fire an AAD in a hook turn.

That is how I understood the swoop mode as well when I saw the Argus.

It will give people another choice, with some different features that other brands don't offer. While it will probably be competitive, I don't expect it to dominate the AAD market. Some of the new features will be seen as improvements by some people. Others will likely view them as steps backwards.

The bad news (for US jumpers) is the price will be, like the CYPRES, based on the Euro/dollar exchange rate.

For Great Deals on Gear

[kelpdiver 2]

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Easy battery replacement, and its a battery that you can get for 10 bucks at Walmart. Seems like it will need to replaced every year, but at 10 bucks a pop its not bad.

Is that a good thing? Seems like too many people have learned the wrong way that before a night dive is a good time to change the battery in their wrist mounted neptune. If it's a lithium battery, it's challenging to predict future endurance.

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It can have several modes: Standard, Tandem, Student, Swoop. But it only comes with one. So you only have to stock one type of unit, and then you can load the other ones that you want. It costs more for the loads, but most people will not need them, so why have them?

This does seem better to avoid the mistakes people have made with the Vigil, unintentionally going up in tandem mode.

[Ron 7]

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Is that a good thing? Seems like too many people have learned the wrong way that before a night dive is a good time to change the battery in their wrist mounted neptune. If it's a lithium battery, it's challenging to predict future endurance.

Its in the reserve tray. So its not like people can just pop it out.

Its going to be a job for a rigger.

But cheaper batteries is a good thing. The part about the checkup being done locally is a good thing since it will not have to be sent off in major markets.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[tso-d_chris 0]

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But cheaper batteries is a good thing

Agreed, but so is the sealed battery that the Vigil has. Unfortunately, we can't have it both ways, at least at this point in time.

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[kelpdiver 2]

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Its in the reserve tray. So its not like people can just pop it out.

Its going to be a job for a rigger.

There goes easy replacement!

But you're right - $10 per year is much more reasonable than the $80 equilivent of two C batteries in the Cypres1. And you figure 15 years of battery advancement has brought better options.

But a battery that is only good for a year makes me nervous, unless that's a very aggressive prediction on lifespan. I'd be particularly nervous about using a rental rig with one. I've seen enough products with 'bad' battery level checks when it comes to lithium because of its flat discharge map.

[nate_1979 9]

Ya know, if I had an AAD that said "replace the battery every year" and it only costs $10 to do it, and it was easy, I'd probably just have it done every / every other repack...What's 10 bucks?

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[kelpdiver 2]

yep. I think a stated year lifespan would drive a lot of people in that direction.

But assuming the rigger just rolls that work into the cost of a repack, it's $180 in batteries over the 12 years that the C2 costs nothing.

[nate_1979 9]

The C2 has to be shipped away from your rig, which if you jump at a DZ that requires an AAD like mine, or if you dont wanna jump without a cypress (also describes me), that means no jumping your gear while your cypress gets serviced... I do like the idea of local servicing.

How much rental gear costs you figure you can build up while your rig sits around... I know I just spent $75 on monday because I dont have a freebag anymore

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[cpoxon 0]

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But it looks pretty good to me so far.

But you still wouldn't jump one until a couple of years after they had been released and ironed out the bugs?

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[arlo 0]

hey ron-

so did this guy call you out specifically because he knows what you think about vigils and figured you'd be the perfect person to promote his product? did you know this guy from before?

i know you understand where i'm coming from.

cya this weekend...

a

[kelpdiver 2]

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The C2 has to be shipped away from your rig, which if you jump at a DZ that requires an AAD like mine, or if you dont wanna jump without a cypress (also describes me), that means no jumping your gear while your cypress gets serviced... I do like the idea of local servicing.

True, if it plays out that the Vigil and the Argus don't end up needing the equilivent of 4 year servicing. Figure it would take about 6 years of GA to find out.

[nate_1979 9]

True, and I've got about 10 years to figure out what my next AADs gonna be

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[Ron 7]

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But a battery that is only good for a year makes me nervous, unless that's a very aggressive prediction on lifespan. I'd be particularly nervous about using a rental rig with one. I've seen enough products with 'bad' battery level checks when it comes to lithium because of its flat discharge map.

Very true, and I don't know what they are planning. Like I said I don't have anything to do with them.

The next phase will flesh out some of the opportunities.

Cheap batteries are good, but not if they only last a mth. But we will have to wait to see how these test.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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But you still wouldn't jump one until a couple of years after they had been released and ironed out the bugs?

Probley not. Im not a fan of "new" things that can kill you.

However, I like how the company is being really open and honest. If the test units have no problems....Or even better, if they HAVE a problem and the company is open, honest, and quick to handle it....Who knows, I need another AAD. But I think its pretty safe to say that I am not going to be a tester.

The first round of testing will be with the loop around the cutter. (I'd have no problem jumping it like that)

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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so did this guy call you out specifically because he knows what you think about vigils and figured you'd be the perfect person to promote his product? did you know this guy from before?

I assume he knows how I feel about anything new.

If you remember, I had some issues with the CYPRES2 also.....And they had some issues I was quick to jump on.

The CYPRES2 had an edge that VIGIL didn't have in the fact that it had almost 12 years of a really good AAD behind it....And they STILL had issues (Screen problems...And honestly the "solution" was not very good).

VIGIL seems to have most of the problems fixed. My biggest problem with VIGIL was they didn't admit they had a problem for a really long time.

Trust me...You know me, and I am not about to keep quite just because he gave me a t-shirt and a presentation.

But I like how he seems to be really open....And if he follows through with the testing he claims they are gonna do....Well I'll be impressed with the company.

BTW I wanted another AAD for my second rig....I thought about buying a VIGIL, then decided that I didn't really need an AAD for a rig that will sit 90% of the time in my closet.

I am waiting to see if Argus has any issues....And waiting to see how the company handles them if they have any.

Again, I didn't get anything out of Karel but a tshirt (Thats too big for me).

I am not recomending this product yet.....Just wanted to give some folks my first impression with it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Stumpy 256]

hey Ron - will it have a lifespan or is that not clear yet?

thanks

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Ron 7]

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hey Ron - will it have a lifespan or is that not clear yet?

I don't know.

Check the website http://www.argus-aad.com/homepage.asp

Found it:

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What is the life time expectancy of the Argus?
The service life for the Argus is set at 12 years and 3 months counting from the first time it has been switched on.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Stumpy 256]

Cheers! (sorry - too lazy!)

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[tbrown 26]

I think it's great, we may soon have three serious competitors in the field. And I wouldn't mind seeing a SERIOUS price cut in the 30-40% range either. I mean, figure it took years and years for somebody to finally come up with an AAD that most jumpers would take seriously (Cypres) and for their hard work they got a virtual monopoly for twelve or so years. Then after a rough start, the Vigil's looking like a real alternative. And now the Argus. Hey, I'm all for it, anything that makes all three of them work harder to make better and safer AADs at a lower price (ahem....), is better for all of us. I mean if you look around, we don't have just one canopy maker, or rig maker, or jumpsuit, altimeter, or helmet maker. So aside from the tricky technology, why should AADs be any different, This IS the 21st century, ain't it ??

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[pbla4024 0]

We already have three serious competitors. You should not forget about MPAAD.

Fido

[Kris 0]

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We already have three serious competitors. You should not forget about MPAAD.

I don't know if the MPAAD can be counted yet. The Cypres, Vigil, and Argus will all fit in existing Cypres-ready rigs.

The design of the MPAAD looks like it's going to require some serious retrofit.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[PhreeZone 15]

Don't count on it. There used to be a time when the Cypres was able to be purchased at 30% less then its current price. Its all in the exchange rate, as long as the AAD's are manufactored in Europe and the dollar is weak, those jumpers in the States have to pay the current exchange rate and there for much higher costs. A small price difference might be able to happen, but the larger difference would occur if the Dollar regained strength against the EU.

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And tomorrow is a mystery

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