wolfriverjoe 1,366 #26 September 21, 2010 QuoteQuote Spotting is not just looking out the aircraft at the ground and getting out over the correct location it is also determining where the spot is. And how do you do that? I sort of believed it would just become intuitive over time of being told where it was, but it doesn't seem any more intuitive than it used to.. is there some sort of formula for knowing this?? Some of us have much less positional/geographic instincts than others, so to some that might come naturally but to me that is something I will need to be taught and/or force myself to learn very intentionally and specifically. I am not disagreeing, I would like to know, but don't have any idea how one would go about teaching OR learning that...? The positional/geographic thing is mostly familiarity with your home DZ. What landmarks are 1 mile out? 2 miles? An overhead aerial photo of the DZ is a big help. Most places have one (East Troy does IIRC). Spend some time studying it. This Thread is kinda old, but has some good info in it. Post 9 covers a lot of both theory and practice."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #27 September 21, 2010 When I got on our jumprun last sunday my group was at the door and there was no visibility of the DZ....the light was on and everyone was yelling at us to exit...even though we couldnt see shit. We got down to around 7K and it took at least 'what felt like a good 10 seconds or so' just to get through the big puffy. I was slightly below my normal pull altitude just to get a clear shot of the dz below. Is this considered 'ok'? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrjny 0 #28 September 21, 2010 I did it once during AFF at zhills. I look down before I jump to find the DZ and a clear shot down between us. I was under the impression the green light was the pilot hitting some switch based upon his impression of where he is, GPS based or otherwise (slower flight too). Never been in a non-turbine plane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
727_Jumper 0 #29 September 21, 2010 Quote When I got on our jumprun last sunday my group was at the door and there was no visibility of the DZ....the light was on and everyone was yelling at us to exit...even though we couldnt see shit. We got down to around 7K and it took at least 'what felt like a good 10 seconds or so' just to get through the big puffy. I was slightly below my normal pull altitude just to get a clear shot of the dz below. Is this considered 'ok'? at least in the US, jumping through clouds and even close to them is a violation of Federal Regulations. any rumor of my having done it once or twice before is damn lie! youtube has video of said violations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #30 September 22, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Pull high enough and have enough canopy skills and spotting becomes a dead art. It is a dead art.... But I hope you are joking. It is far from a dead art....come back to a C-182 DZ that does IAD's or SL. ...and jump a ROUND! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #31 September 22, 2010 Obviously you have no SIM. Get one and read it. You'll be glad you did. You should already be familiar with spotting. It should have been part of your training already. For starters, read: Section 4, Cat D, part F Section 4, Cat E, part FMy reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #32 September 22, 2010 QuoteWhen I got on our jumprun last sunday my group was at the door and there was no visibility of the DZ....the light was on and everyone was yelling at us to exit...even though we couldnt see shit. We got down to around 7K and it took at least 'what felt like a good 10 seconds or so' just to get through the big puffy. I was slightly below my normal pull altitude just to get a clear shot of the dz below. Is this considered 'ok'? No it is NOT OK. Those idiots yelling "Go!" are just that...idiots. Who is wearing your parachute? That's the person that decides to go or not. If the guy wearing your chute doesn't feel comfortable exiting, he should stand aside and the let the lemmings go by.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeNReN 0 #33 September 22, 2010 Hey pops....what is it with the bullshit numbers for you? Why can't you post real numbers? Someone as vocal as you should post their real numbers or something close. or maybe we should all post bullshit... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cderham 0 #34 September 22, 2010 So I was at Skydive Chicago last Friday on a fun jump load where 3 Accuracy jumpers where getting out low to do what they do. Dennis Murphy was in the door. the door light comes on he opens the door and continues to look out. Now he is not looking inside and obviously not paying attention to the green light. When the green light does come on he "does not notice it" after about 5 seconds or so people from the back of the plane start asking does he know the light is on? after approx 10 seconds people seemed really concerned and holler... The green light is on you can go. HAHAHAHAHAHA Dennis does not even look up and continues to spot. after a few more seconds he looks back into the plane smiles and leaves. followed by the other two jumpers who each stopped and looked at their spot before exit. Now I am a relative newbie in the sport still in my mind. I love being around the "grey beards" of our sport and listening cause I always walk away learning something. But to sit at a turbine dz and listen to the new jumpers just not fully understand where we started? PRICELESS!! Sorry I just have to chuckle sometimes they are so damn cute. Chris It's Jimmy Time!! http://www.facebook.com/pages/Team-Fast-As-Fuck/6099474213 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philly51 0 #35 September 22, 2010 There are more than a few jumpers who get on a load without even looking at the posted winds aloft, let alone knowing how to spot. Of course many of these types are the same people who are screaming at me to "GO!" when the green thingie lights up. Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, Shouting "...holy shit...what a ride!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyflower_bloom 0 #36 September 22, 2010 Yes, I have no copy/paper SIM. I do have the link bookmarked on my browser though; specific section references are useful; thank you. In my post I did state that I felt I should already know more than I do and be comfortable spotting. I also attributed some of this to switching DZs, injury, travel, and multiple instructors, but commented that overall I would like to see more instructors who take the time to teach this, and BUILD on it, as well as recognized the need for me as a student to take initiative and seek out more training and info on something that I know I need to know but don't. Thanks for the refs in the SIM, I'll read through them right now. Also, thanks so much DeNReN and wolfriverjoe for the helpful input.. I definitely would like spotting and familiarity with these concepts to be something I focus my next few weekends of jumping on as I get near to the A licensing requirements, hoping to complete the A this season. The links and tips are all very helpful and give me plenty to read up on and discuss next time I am at the dz. Appreciate it! Better to know how to spot and not need it most of the time, than not know how and wind up needing it even once, for sure! And I think the basic mentality and awareness that goes along with it-- I would like to have that added dimension of control of visually referencing before exit and knowing that I am comfortable with what I see.. I do see it as an important skill despite technology.. it just doesn't seem to come as easy to me as to some but I will be working at it!"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #37 September 22, 2010 They taught me how to spot as part of my A-license. Pretty important and we always spot the load at my DZ. Something I do not have enough practice on (although it was taught on my A-license) is figuring out where the spot should be. One of the S&TAs or the pilot does it at the beginning of the day and then we adjust as the day goes on. I need to practice calculating that from the winds aloft report."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #38 September 22, 2010 QuoteHey pops....what is it with the bullshit numbers for you? Why can't you post real numbers? Someone as vocal as you should post their real numbers or something close. or maybe we should all post bullshit... - to give some people something to talk about because everyone recognizes that the numbers are, in fact, BS. - a severe lack of ego wrto jump numbers (call me crazy, eh?)My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #39 September 22, 2010 Quote I need to practice..... I love this attitude! You be 'da MAN!My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #40 September 22, 2010 I've seen four types of spotters recently: 1. Students under instruction 2. Instructors with students 3. Grey haired old farts (and those that wish they still had hair, grey or otherwise) and their female colleagues. 4. "Green Light Spotters" We talk about having people look for traffic at our 12 and 3 o'clock (assuming left side door)... hell, there's few that have their head out enough to see traffic at the 6. There are some that don't even look out enough to see traffic at their 9...JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #41 September 22, 2010 Quote Quote Hey pops....what is it with the bullshit numbers for you? Why can't you post real numbers? Someone as vocal as you should post their real numbers or something close. or maybe we should all post bullshit... - to give some people something to talk about because everyone recognizes that the numbers are, in fact, BS. - a severe lack of ego wrto jump numbers (call me crazy, eh?) You're too kind, Andy. I would have had some politically incorrect reply telling the jackwad to get off my ass. But that's just me.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
78RATS 0 #42 September 22, 2010 If the pilot says I can get out, I get out. Doesn't always work out perfectly but I get my skydive in. haha. Learned that at SUSA!! Rat for Life - Fly till I die When them stupid ass bitches ask why Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wings-n-Things 0 #43 September 22, 2010 Sounds like few even know what a wind drift indicator is. Does any dz even throw them anymore? We used to throw 'em before jumping every day!Card carrying member of the Nanny State Liberation Front Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
727_Jumper 0 #44 September 22, 2010 QuoteSounds like few even know what a wind drift indicator is. Does any dz even throw them anymore? We used to throw 'em before jumping every day! I know what they are, but I have never seen one used. in the military, we used to use an anemometer and send up special balloons, time the asscent and making note of which way it went to set up a DZ. The DZ was set up with markers for the JM to spot the drop with some accuracy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,366 #45 September 22, 2010 Quote Sounds like few even know what a wind drift indicator is. Does any dz even throw them anymore? We used to throw 'em before jumping every day! We don't use them. That's why the first load of the day is called the "wind dummy" load"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeNReN 0 #46 September 23, 2010 We will use WDI's if the 1st load of the day is a student load and the winds are moderate or higher or a odd wind shift before a student load. I have tossed maybe 10 this year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeNReN 0 #47 September 23, 2010 Quotejackwad Thats the best you can do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #48 September 23, 2010 QuoteQuotejackwad Thats the best you can do? Nope. That's all I have to do.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,463 #49 September 23, 2010 Your one warning. Cut it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #50 September 23, 2010 QuoteI spotted for my 3500 hop and pop, pilot waited about 10 seconds after I told him to cut before doing so (I guess is GPS is more accurate than me... :) ) SOME pilots have a tendency to give a climbing green light... Kinda sketchy stuff, just make sure you dive down. That is more the exception than the rule, I think I've only had 2-3 climbing hop&pop exits. It helps to know the feeling of the plane when it levels out."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
