Container size

[Dyouz 0]

I recentley had my first rig put together. I have a spectre 170 in a javelin j1 container. The container is actually made for a 150 canopy. My rigger said that it is not a problem and the canopy would just fit tight in the conatiner...which it does. It fits so tight that the grommit holes don't fully line up when the rig is fully packed, but the closing pin does come out as normal and does not give me any problems. I guess i'm just looking for other opinions on this. I trust my rigger but i just want to hear what others might have to say about this.

[PhreeZone 15]

I used the same combo for over 200 jumps. A little longer closing loop and the issue is'nt that bad. Trust your rigger.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[dqpacker 7]

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A little longer closing loop and the issue is'nt that bad. Trust your rigger.

dido that

[Dyouz 0]

Thanx for the quick reply...already feeling better about it.

[diablopilot 2]

Sunpath's recomendations have always seemed a little "loose" to me. If your rigger is ok with it, I'd say you're ok. Had a J1 sety up for a customer with a 181Raven and 170 Diablo. Was tight for sure, but worked well for many jumps.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Tink1717 2]

You should be able to go up or down one size (from the size the container is made for) on any given container with little or no problem.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[SSkydiver 0]

I currently jump a J1 with a Sabre2 170 and a 181 Raven reserve. It is snug but i never have had a problem with it. Like the reply above, trust your rigger.

[riggerrob 558]

Can you pick the rig up by the main bridle?
Do you need more than 22 pounds to release the reserve ripcord?
If not, then go jump it!

[jumperconway 0]

In my first new rig I had from a 170 Silohuette to a Crossfire 99 no problem except the rig looked like the hunchback with a PD 150 reserve!

[GaryP 0]

Ditto exactly what riggerrob said.

Place the rig on the ground - packed as you would (except P/C) and try to pick it up using the bridle - if the rig pops and the bag lifts out then go jump it. Bear in mind that pin pressure will be less during this test than when you are wearing the rig - try to keep this in mind when testing.

Also - the spec's he gives on the reserve is also correct and important.

The grommets don't need to line up and from most rigs I've seen - rarely do. You do have a bit of leeway by lengthening the loop but dont do by more than 10mm without getting another opinion. This should be enough to handle an extra 20sq/ft in most containers. Also- don't worry if the bag seems tight in the tray - as long as it lifts off with the above test.

The combination of a stiff and much too long a closing loop has caused total pack closures but it sounds as if you are nowhere near this problem yet. The person that's in the best position to ok your rig is the rigger that's viewed it - whilst it's important to take nothing as gospel in this sport and to question advice at all times you have to put trust in those that have experience until you gain the experience yourself to make you own informed choices.

Go jump!

Have fun

g.

"Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it"

.

[Dyouz 0]

thanks for all the great advise from all of you.

[upndownshop 0]

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You should be able to go up or down one size (from the size the container is made for) on any given container with little or no problem.

That is not so true anymore. I use to believe the same thing two years ago when I was selling gear but since my time with the manufacturers and the new sizes this is not the case anymore.

Javelin and RWS have become more canopy specific.
There are more canopy specific sized containers in their lines than what there used to be, thus they no longer recommend that.

The J1KS is built for a 143R and up to 150 main while the J1KL is for a 143R and a 170 main.

Javelin has almost always been canopy specific, more so than the other manufacturers. What has happened is that the other manufacturers always seem to have more tolerance so Javelin got put into that category and yet it wasn't true. Then people complain about riser covers, pin protectors, and cosmetics by saying that they don't work.

People would say oh Javelin isn't "Freefly Friendly" yet most of the champions were using them???

Just FYI to all concerned, things have changed and that rule of thumb is not so true anymore, please check out current sizing charts, you will see quite a few more sizes than before.

In regards to Dyouz, not sure what year your rig is , not that it really matters but keep on eye on your covers, if you start to have a problem, your main will probably be part if not all of your problem.
Sounds like your rigger has done a good job just keep on eye on them.

Hope this helps.

Blue skies to all.

[Dyouz 0]

My container is actually a 1994 J1. It is not labeled as a J1KS or J1KL. This is probably where the confusion comes into play. When I check sunpath's sizing chart, it only shows the "newer" sizes of the KS and KL but no mention of just the plain old J1. Thanks for the concern and the tips from everyone.

[upndownshop 0]

Your 1994 J1 is the same size as the J1KS so the same "rules" apply.

Also double check with your rigger that the closing loop mod has been performed on that rig. That is a very improtant mod for that container.

Have a great day.

[Dyouz 0]

Thanks to all who gave their input on the subject matter. I had my first chance to jump my new epuipment this weekend and everything was perfect. And I already baught beer so don't ask for any more.

[Squeak 17]

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Javelin has almost always been canopy specific, more so than the other manufacturers. What has happened is that the other manufacturers always seem to have more tolerance so Javelin got put into that category and yet it wasn't true. Then people complain about riser covers, pin protectors, and cosmetics by saying that they don't work.
Blue skies to all.

Whilst I agree that Javs have always been specific in their stated max size. I disagree with the point that over size mains or reserves cause riser cover problems.
I own a '93 J1 in mint condition and it houses a Hornet 150 and MR150, and I have had nothing but problems with the riser coevers. When I was at the Factory in January, they admited that it was a problem on older Javs but when I asked for a written fix to be emailed to me they said they would but it's still not here, and I've reminded them twice. It's one of the factors that lead me to order a Micron as my next container.(Even though I'm told that both Subpath and RWS are under the same company umbrella, not certain of the validity of that)

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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[upndownshop 0]

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Javelin has almost always been canopy specific, more so than the other manufacturers. What has happened is that the other manufacturers always seem to have more tolerance so Javelin got put into that category and yet it wasn't true. Then people complain about riser covers, pin protectors, and cosmetics by saying that they don't work.
Blue skies to all.

Whilst I agree that Javs have always been specific in their stated max size. I disagree with the point that over size mains or reserves cause riser cover problems.
I own a '93 J1 in mint condition and it houses a Hornet 150 and MR150, and I have had nothing but problems with the riser coevers. When I was at the Factory in January, they admited that it was a problem on older Javs but when I asked for a written fix to be emailed to me they said they would but it's still not here, and I've reminded them twice. It's one of the factors that lead me to order a Micron as my next container.(Even though I'm told that both Subpath and RWS are under the same company umbrella, not certain of the validity of that)

From what I have learned the older products were a hit and miss situation on that issue.
There are plenty of older ones with no problems. Some times the reserve packing can affect them, along with plenty of other factors as we both know.

My last G4 right cover would come open when diving to the formation.
Of course I am all Javelin now.

I think all the Mfrs. go through some sort of learning stage in this sport, I guess we are all just test pilots for the equipment in some way.


RWS and SP are not under the same umbrella, but we do build Military equipment together and work closely in the sport market.

Just curious why you would change brands based on a 13 year old product, don't most products improve over time? Again that is just an assumption on my part that you are basing your decision on that.

This is kind of interesting, I was demonstrating the proper way to close the riser covers last weekend to a group of packers on a brand new rig. You would think this wouldn't be a big deal 'Its just a tuck tab".
They pack the first 4 jumps on this rig and each time I had to correct the covers because they weren't tucked properly, but the problem is that it will take on the improper shape if continued and ultimately fail in time.

I have come to learn that these products tend to be pretty sensitive, even the "simple" things that we take for granted.

Blue skies to you

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[Squeak 17]

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Just curious why you would change brands based on a 13 year old product, don't most products improve over time? Again that is just an assumption on my part that you are basing your decision on that.

Blue skies to you

It wasn't my sole deciding factor, but I see the Vector 3(micron) as having an all over better finish and in my limited opinion better riser covers.
That and I got a good price on mine. However the only 3 rigs that I was even considering were RWS Micron, Javelin Odessy and Mirage G4. Micron won out for a few reasons

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[upndownshop 0]

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Just curious why you would change brands based on a 13 year old product, don't most products improve over time? Again that is just an assumption on my part that you are basing your decision on that.

Blue skies to you

It wasn't my sole deciding factor, but I see the Vector 3(micron) as having an all over better finish and in my limited opinion better riser covers.
That and I got a good price on mine. However the only 3 rigs that I was even considering were RWS Micron, Javelin Odessy and Mirage G4. Micron won out for a few reasons

Yeah I didn't think that was the only reason.
Did you get the Skyhook? I was never an RSL fan but after spending time with Derek Thomas and Bill Booth I am totaly for it.