Experience with headhunters for jobs

[shah269 0]

Experience with headhunters for jobs.

Who has had experiences with head hunters with respect to placement. I've been working in a given field for the past decade and due to my years of experience as an engineer I have very little line of sight outside of my industry.

I've been told that though the internet is very nice it is not truly set up for finding higher paying jobs and that I should look for a head hunter. Only problem is this. Where do you find a head hunter? The preverbal catch 22.

Thus, how have you found a headhunter and what has been your experience?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[Amazon 7]

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Experience with headhunters for jobs.

Who has had experiences with head hunters with respect to placement. I've been working in a given field for the past decade and due to my years of experience as an engineer I have very little line of sight outside of my industry.

I've been told that though the internet is very nice it is not truly set up for finding higher paying jobs and that I should look for a head hunter. Only problem is this. Where do you find a head hunter? The preverbal catch 22.

Thus, how have you found a headhunter and what has been your experience?

It has been my experience... that if you have marketable skills that are in demand... they will find you. I posted a resume on Monster many YEARS ago... and it got into some headhunters databases. I get so many emails from them all year.. I can pick and choose which projects I wish to work on.

[shah269 0]

Amazon,
Thank you. I half expected that's how it worked.
I'm currently looking at utilizing ladders to obtain exposure.
Just wasn't sure.
And your experience has been positive?
Also did they place you in a company as a contractor or full time.
Due to liabilities I'm not comfortable as living as an "at will" contractor.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Amazon,
Thank you. I half expected that's how it worked.
I'm currently looking at utilizing ladders to obtain exposure.
Just wasn't sure.
And your experience has been positive?
Also did they place you in a company as a contractor or full time.
Due to liabilities I'm not comfortable as living as an "at will" contractor.

Most of my experiences have been quite positive, many of the companys seem to want to hire as a contractor to make a judgement call on if you meet their standards and then approach you for full time.

In many cases I was VERY not interested in their full time package that was offered. I did take a full time gig with The Evil Empire... since it looked good on the resume but the lateral moves they wished me to make in subsequent years with more and more responsibility and time consuming duties( 60 hour plus workweeks)... were not matched with an increasing offer of financial reward. I left and took a gig at Boeing working on the 787 project with a 50% pay raise and have since been back at The Evil Empire working on several fun projects with the higher rates still intact but I will stick with being a contractor.

Oh.. and I also have monthly obligations (liabilities) and I have yet managed to never miss one of those in 20 years of moving from project to project.

[shah269 0]

Amazon,
Thank you.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[wmw999 2,141]

The company I was recently working for was in the position of having to lay off the majority of their workers; they invested a lot into helping us find something else (if you want a good textbook on how to do massive layoffs right, it'd be hard to find a better example).

The conventional wisdom as put forward to us was to use sites like LinkedIn aggressively; i.e. put yourself into them, and look for discussions of things that interest you, to see what industries they represent.

Then get to know those people. It's all about who you know any more, because with the internet, the market is so big, some sort of discerning factor is needed. And that's generally contacts, unless you have extremely specialized skills that people can search for.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Remster 24]

Some headhunters are just resume chasers. Others, once they find you, will spend a considerable amount of time coaching you and working with you.

LinkedIn and, yes, Monster are the places that they seem to find me more than others. That, and through personal references. And like Amazon said: if you skills match what's in demand right now, they will find you.

Also, if a head hunter who seems to know what they are talking about contacts you, and you are either not interested, or the fit isnt right, try and find a name or 2 to pass on to him/her (or vice versa: I prefer to pass the name of the HH to my contacts).

Remster

[NWFlyer 2]

Headhunters don't work for you, they work for the company that hires them to find someone.

Good ones are rare. The Ladders ... well, read some of this. It's a blog category called "Job Scams" and notice how many entries are about The Ladders?

http://corcodilos.com/blog/category/job-scams

And read the rest of this site, too. It's a pretty good source of info on how people really find a job (in a word: network).

http://www.asktheheadhunter.com/

The way I use "the internet" to find high-paying jobs? I use it to identify target companies and learn more about them. I look directly at company web sites and job listings. I use LinkedIn (and sometimes Facebook) to find connections at target companies, then I work with those connections to find my way to hiring managers. I do not use any of the big job boards. I don't pay to list my resume anywhere. I will sometimes look at LinkedIn job postings (I find the signal-to-noise ratio is better there and I can usually find a connection at the company so I'm not doing a blind submission of my resume). I use email (how old school!) to reach out to people I've worked with, people I know from college and grad school, people I've met through skydiving and other activities to find and follow up on leads.

My current job came about this way. I was looking to relocate from Seattle to the Bay Area. Called an old friend from college who lives in San Francisco just to catch up and get his take on the local market. We chat for a while, he offers a couple leads, says "Let me give it some more thought and get back to you." Next day he emails me and says "Can't believe I forgot about this guy - my friend is the finance guy for the new VP of IT at [target company in my industry]." Email and quick phone call to this guy later and my resume is on the desk of said VP ... within a week I'm being called to talk about my current job. (Actually I take that back. They called me to talk about a different job - when I came in for the interview with the hiring manager, he suggested the job that I now have as a much better fit. Just goes to show don't totally write something off if it doesn't sound perfect at first).

At the time I accepted this one I was looking at two other opportunities seriously. One was working for a former vendor of a past employer of mine - they were consdiering me for a job that was a big switch from what I'd done in the past but because I was a somewhat known quantity, we talked. Another was working for a startup I found listed on LinkedIn ... by searching my network on LinkedIn, I found out that a guy who was a year behind me at my business school also happened to work there, so of course I reached out to him. ALL about working those connections to get noticed.

So far, I've not worked with a head hunter who's added any value. YMMV.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[shah269 0]

Wendy
NWFlyer
Thank you

Specialized skills...I have a few but some will not translate into the civilian world.
I have a BS in mechanical engineering with 8 years of experience in what would be called middle management.
I have a six sigma black belt. A few patents under my employer and will be getting my EMBA this December.
My issue is visibility. I have very little idea of what is going on in the outside world. And that' is 100% my fault. I just focused on what was needed to develop successful teams within my environment that I forgot to pay attention to what was going on in the outside. Right now I'm thinking of trying Ladders and see where that goes. I'm also leveraging my connections at the university where I will obtain my MBA.
I have no clue what my skills are worth and don’t wish to be a "cheap date" on the other hand I have no idea where I would fit in.
I'm one of those pesky innovators who keeps finding out of the box solutions that scare upper management but deliver above expected returns.
Case in point utilizing Ipad II's to run applications to survey customers and to determine customer expectations and behavior to develop a model to predict future customer needs.
Ever tell a supervisor you need to barrow the company card to pick up 6 Ipads for a test? And to within two weeks have hard data predicting future trends of the market? Yeah I'm that guy. But how the heck does that translate into other industries?
Thus why I'm thinking head hunters may be the way to go?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[wmw999 2,141]

You're going to have to find out what you're interested in; that's very possibly the hardest part. If you're picky, then it might take a long time. If you're not as picky, then it won't necessarily take all that long.

Basically, do you want to do engineering (and have your PM, MBA & BB as added assets), or do you want to do PM (and have engineering, MBA, and BB as added assets). You probably ought to head down one path or the other if you want to progress within a company, unless it's pretty specialized.

It's work to figure it out; talk to the other folks in your EMBA program and see what they're doing. And if your current employer is paying for your EMBA, you might owe them some time after it's complete as part of a contractual thing. Look into it.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[shah269 0]

Wendy
Well I know I'm done with engineer.
It was fun, got to patents, had a blast but...yeah I'm done with it.
Just no respect or pay in the field.
So I'm looking at PM gigs....I think?
The question is what industry?
Though I'm an engineer I don't look or act or sound like the "AVERAGE" engineer.
As I put it to a friend "I'm the management to engineer interface. My job is to translate what engineers say into words and concepts that are easily digested by non technical individuals." But that's due to the Six Sigma Black belt. Not the easiest thing in the world but very rewarding.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[monkycndo 0]

I think that is the perfect job for you. You do such a great job communicating on here. Or did I miss understand what you were thinking?

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[JohnMitchell 14]

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I think that is the perfect job for you. You do such a great job communicating on here. Or did I miss understand what you were thinking?

So you think you can read his F-ing mind?!?!

[pyrotech 0]

Before I got my current job, I was an independent contractor, though sometimes would get a short-term gig through a headhunter / recruiter. In the tech field, it is very popular to get contracts this way.

However, with your experience, I wouldn't go that route. You'll run into a lot of recruiters that aren't very knowledgeable in the tech field and are not able to sell your skills the way you would be able to. You will more than likely not find a gig that will pay your wages, and will have to make sacrifices that you (at your experience level) would not want to afford.

LinkedIn is a great social networking site that will make you come up relatively easy in a google search and will show a quick run-through of your resume. If you haven't already mentioned your patents on a LinkedIn profile, you'll want to do that. I've been contacted based on my LinkedIn profile a couple of times, but it was usually by headhunters that know nothing about software development, see a keyword on my resume, and instantly jump at the chance to tell me they have a PERFECT opportunity waiting for me, when I have little experience or desire for the skill they are looking for.

My favorite site to look for work or contracts on is Indeed.com. They have tons of tech jobs, many of which are looking for full-time / salaried positions. It pulls from several other job search sites and compiles them into a list based on keywords and location. I've gotten a few jobs from here.

However, to get my current job, and other jobs that have paid well with interesting people, it took networking. I met this guy at a bar who was a systems administrator for a company I wanted to work for as a software engineer. We talked about my skill set and my requirements in a job, and decided to hold off until a higher technical position opened for what they had. A few weeks later, a few of his friends at another company mentioned they were looking for a software developer. He gave them my name and resume, and now I sit comfortably in their building looking out at a beautiful scenic view, writing this reply.

I think with your experience level, you should start letting friends and colleagues know you may be looking for something as another position. Who knows? There may be something internal that you can move up into with more benefits than what you're currently getting.

[shah269 0]

pyrotech
Thank you
Shah

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Experience with headhunters for jobs.

Who has had experiences with head hunters with respect to placement. I've been working in a given field for the past decade and due to my years of experience as an engineer I have very little line of sight outside of my industry.

I've been told that though the internet is very nice it is not truly set up for finding higher paying jobs and that I should look for a head hunter.

If you have skills which are in demand creating a Linkedin profile is all you need to create a constant stream of E-mails from recruiters some of which involve positions which will be interesting and lucrative and many of which are crap you want to ignore.

With that and basic cover letter + resume writing skills you can get high-paying jobs advertised on craigslist, theladders.com (but this seems to have cratered), etc. when they don't find you first.

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Only problem is this. Where do you find a head hunter? The preverbal catch 22.

They find you. If they do a decent job sending you positions you'd find interesting that are appropriate for your seniority level you give them a call or E-mail the next time you're looking for work. If they use the shotgun approach with vague job descriptions where you'd need to call to decide if you'd want to talk with some one you ignore them.

Or they're contracted for a position you'd find interesting, you find them through other means like craigslist, and ask them what else they have if that's not a good fit.

Getting jobs through your personal network is better because you usually have more visibility into what's going on at the company but becomes non-viable when you're relocating or looking for positions that are too different.

[pyrotech 0]

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Thus, how have you found a headhunter and what has been your experience?

You can also do a search for "recruiters (your area)" and maybe throw in the area of expertise you want to find work. When you get a list of recruiting agencies, ask around to see if anyone has had success with them in your area. I found a local recruiting agency that has helped me get several contracts when my own resources were tapped at the time.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Due to liabilities I'm not comfortable as living as an "at will" contractor.

At your pay grade you have at-will employment regardless of whether the guys currently paying the bills call you an employee or contractor.

The reasons for job changes and how much warning you have to find the next position will vary (a big company acquires you and closes the office, you "finish" your big company project so it gets sent to India for maintenance and the organization/project you get moved to is sub-optimal, your contract ends, the company runs out of money) but job security isn't different between employee/contractor or small company/big company.

As a (real, as opposed to being called one because your employer would like to weasel out of paying employment taxes) contractor you might have more security because

1) You have the latitude to work for multiple clients at once, and when you're keeping them happy any one client will be happy to have you full-time or more.

2) Your rates have padding to include the time you might spend doing business development. I've charged 50% more hourly than the sum of the salary I'd earn as an employee at 1850 hours a year, benefits, employment taxes, and other costs like my accountant's bills. When you do that you can afford 1/3 your time to be un-billable although in practice you just get paid more.

[pyrotech 0]

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You have the latitude to work for multiple clients at once, and when you're keeping them happy any one client will be happy to have you full-time or more.

100 times this.

When I was a contractor, part of the joy was being able to take multiple projects on at once. There were multiple streams of income coming in, which I feel is far more secure than one large source of income. Think of it as stocks... You can risk a lot putting all of your investments into one company, but if you diversify, your risk is lower with the potential for greater returns. Working as an employee at a company, if your boss is a jerk, you either have to find a different full-time gig, hope your boss gets promoted, hope they get fired, or try to move to a different department if there is one available. If a client is being a jerk, you can fire them as a client and move on.

As for health insurance benefits, I was paying about the same amount for individual health insurance (with dental) that I am in my group policy, which offer roughly the same benefits. No real gain there by being employed.

If you want a pay raise as an employee, you have to hope your boss is willing to give you a few extra dollars a week due to you working your ass off and acquiring new skills as an employee. When you want a raise as a contractor / consultant, you raise your rates or find new clients. Hell, do both.

I'll admit, I've run into clients that don't like to pay their invoices on time, but that just comes with the territory. They've all eventually paid, only sometimes it was a week (in one case an entire month) late. It was annoying, but I definitely made a lot more money for the amount of time / work I put into the project than I would have if I were expecting a full-time employer to pay me.

I really miss being a contractor sometimes. Being an employee is cool too I guess, being as I get to work on cool projects where I'm currently at, but if it were at a place where the work bored me, I don't know that I'd be able to keep doing it long.

[shah269 0]

Everyone,
I greatly appreciate the info and the advice.
I've updated my linked in and am working on personal contacts.
Though the thought of being an independent contractor does sound very sexy I'm not sure I could at the moment. My outstanding liability with respect to my mortgage is a PITA.
As soon as I off load this condo I will be in a better position to contemplate being a free agent.

I guess over all I'm not in a bad spot. I'm about to get my EMBA from a very good university known for it's entrepreneurship and forward thinking to management and i have almost a decade of engineering and process work behind me.

Thank you.
I will look around and leverage my contacts as well as the net.
Shah

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[shah269 0]

Well there goes that!
Looks as if Linkedin is now doing the "ladders" thing.
They to now have a paid $100k job search option.
From $19.95 for basic all the way up to $49.95 for premium.
Makes you wonder if it's worth it or just another scam?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[NWFlyer 2]

I've never paid for LinkedIn and I've gotten a ton of value out of it. Give the free version some time before you hop on the paid bandwagon.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[shah269 0]

NWFlyer
I agree 100% that is my plan. Just noting something new.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[Nataly 38]

Lots of good advice on here.

I would add this: HAVE A GOOD CV (I think you call them resumes in the US). Don't underestimate the value of a well-worded/formated resume.

Best thing to do is to look up a bunch of jobs that interest you and make sure you use the same lingo as they do on your resume - talk the talk.

If you apply directly, tailor your resume to the job - use the same words/descriptions if you have the exact experience; also be sure to put the most relevant skills (for that job) at the top of each job description. Yes, it may take half an hour for each application, but this method ensures a MUCH better chance of getting an interview compared to just sending the same thing to 20 different companies.

Have a professional LinkedIn/Monster profile. Also, know that headhunters / recruiters pay most attention to monster on Mondays - so update one or two things on your profile on Sunday night to put your resume at the top of the list on Monday morning.

After that, if the recruiters don't contact you, you either don't have the skills or they don't have the roles.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
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