#of reserve repack's

[rangersergant 0]

So, I know if you ask the manufactures, they will tell you all the reasons, I on the other hand think marketing is the real reason. Why is it that the manufactures say only 40 reserve re-packs till you need a replacement canopy. What's up with that. Did they build a f-111 canopy as a main to only acept 40 jumps before it is replaced? I really don't want to hear that kind of logic. Yes, on the positive side we are looking at a 10 year life expectancy, why not, cypress is limited to a time frame, NOW. Yes, most people get new gear long before their 10 years are up, with the R&D that most reputable manufactures are doing, in ten years who knows what need there may be. After all Bird Man suits aren't landable...YET

[katzurki 0]

I think the 40 repacks life span is recommended, but is not enforced, and as long as a rigger says it's worthy, you can fly that...

I remember a very sad accident a year ago when the reserve plainly tore off the container on deployment due to age and wear in connecting points, but it was totally the manufacturer's fault (and the jumper's, for jumping unrealiable gear)...

[mark 103]

One way to look at it: we know that the process of packing a reserve increases fabric porosity, degrading performance on a parachute that is already frequently smaller and less aerodynamically efficient than the accompanying main.

Another way to look at it: 40 reserve packs is 3 per year for 13 years. PD's 40-pack/25-jump requirement is to have the canopy sent to the factory for inspection. Depending on condition, it may be returned to service. I don't think factory inspection for a 12- or 15-year-old emergency, last-chance canopy is unreasonable.

Contrast this with GQ Security's requirement to have its systems returned to the factory at 10 years, and retired at 15, regardless of condition.

You can always buy a competing canopy, and not have to know if it would meet factory standards..

Mark

[teason 0]

The life on a PD reserve is not really 40 repacks or 25 jumps. At that point it is not junked. The company simply requires that it is sent in for a porosity test to ensure that the canopy is still suitable for reserve activation. Seeing that 40 repacks will go 10+ years, UV damage (UVs can go right through a container), and other damage and wear that can happen, it is prudent.
The porosity of a canopy can affect opening time and flight characteristics. With more and more people highly loading their reserves, porosity could make the difference between a good landing and a broken ankle. Does anyone really want to land a bagged out F111 seven cell loaded at 1.5 to 1?

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[mjosparky 3]

Who are you?

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[noahgordon 0]

well does all this count for f-111? i was told that f-111 is more forgiving than zero p. but anyway, is there alimit on packs for a f-111 reserve? i was looking at buying a a strong g2r and it was made in 1990, think it's safe?

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

well does all this count for f-111? i was told that f-111 is more forgiving than zero p. but anyway, is there alimit on packs for a f-111 reserve? i was looking at buying a a strong g2r and it was made in 1990, think it's safe?

Almost all reserves are F-111 type material. (lo-po) I believe one company had a hybrid, ZP top skin, out at one time.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mark 103]

Quote

I was looking at a [fill in the blank]. Do you think it's safe?

Compared to what?

Skydiving equipment rarely fails catastrophically. Older designs are usually lower performance (less glide, less forgiving flare) than more recent designs. Older equipment probably has more packs and more jumps than a newer, and that will affects performance too. If you use an older canopy, you'll have an increased chance of mishap on landing.

Only you can decide if you are willing to take the increased risk in exchange for a lower price. It may be that you load the canopy lightly enough that there is little increase in risk.

No amount of money will guarantee safety.

With respect to F-111 reserves: almost all reserves are made from F-111 or the equivalent. Except for Performance Designs (and Aerodyne?), no manufacturer of sport reserves requires factory service.

With respect to the Strong G2R Spirit: if you buy this canopy, make sure it packs with a freebag, not diaper.

Mark

[slotperfect 7]

Quote

Who are you?

rangersergant - Sparky means it would be helpful for both yourself and us if you completed your profile. It gives us an idea of who we are talking to, helps us believe that you are a legitimate forum participants (there are some phonies here), and helps lend you some credibility here in the forums no matter what your experience level is.

Arrive Safely

John

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

Quote

Who are you?

rangersergant - Sparky means it would be helpful for both yourself and us if you completed your profile. It gives us an idea of who we are talking to, helps us believe that you are a legitimate forum participants (there are some phonies here), and helps lend you some credibility here in the forums no matter what your experience level is.

Yea, what he said.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[masterrig 1]

As was mentioned, after 40-re-packs and 25-jumps, with PD reserves. the manufacturer requires the reserve be returned to them for airworthy testing. Here in the States, airworthiness of parachute equipment is left to us riggers unless, otherwise specified by the manufacturer. We follow requirements of the FAA and manufacturer's in regard to parachute equipment. Hope, this helps.

Chuck

[billvon 2,434]

>Why is it that the manufactures say only 40 reserve re-packs till you
> need a replacement canopy.

No manufacturers say that.

>Did they build a f-111 canopy as a main to only acept 40 jumps
> before it is replaced?

I wouldn't jump a PD-120 for more than about 100 jumps before I replaced it; heavily loaded F-111's simply don't perform well with even a little extra porosity. I had problems with a PD-170 at 600 jumps.

>I really don't want to hear that kind of logic.

No problem! No one uses that sort of logic.

[councilman24 36]

If you packed reserves you'd know that after a numer of years you CAN tell the difference just by feel. When the material starts feeling limp it's hard to ignore. Packing DOES damage non-zp canopies. Personally I can't believe the 25 openings part. Two or three or four or five depending on type would start me wondering.

Yes we riggers are certifying the airworthiness, but to some extent it's an educated guess. We can test a harness (even if we had the equipment) except to failure. I recently had a 12 year old ramair reserve fail tensle testing, at about 4 lb's, but only in one area.

If you want your last chance to live to be "iffy" pick up an original swift for $100.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[riggerrob 558]

Quote

Quote

well does all this count for f-111? i was told that f-111 is more forgiving than zero p. but anyway, is there alimit on packs for a f-111 reserve? i was looking at buying a a strong g2r and it was made in 1990, think it's safe?

Almost all reserves are F-111 type material. (lo-po) I believe one company had a hybrid, ZP top skin, out at one time.

Sparky

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


To answer the first question: F-111 canopies are only forgiving if you load them less than one pound per square foot.

To answer the second question:
Yes,
Precision Aerodynamics made (1997 to 2003) a few Raven Dash-MZ reserves with ZP top skins and F-111 fabric everywhere else.
I have packed 3 or 4 Raven Dash-MZ reserves. My regular methods and clamps worked just fine, but I did cheat by leaving a sand bag on the freebag while I ate lunch.
Hee! Hee!
I doubt that they opened or landed much differently than similar-sized Raven Dash-M reserves made of F-111 fabric.
However, so many riggers whined so long and so loud that they could not pack them - with old-school techniques - that Precision never sold very many.

I suspect that Precision just wanted to gain some experience with ZP reserves because they were afraid that mills would stop manufacturing F-111 fabric.