Intervention Participation Refusal

[jakee 1,257]

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EVER have to DEAL with what's involved in a DWI or DUI charge?????? it sux.

Yeah? Good.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[catfishhunter 1]

Lots of good things have been said but coming from an addict who just celebrated 12 years clean I hope what I have to say carries some weight.

You cannot love him, threaten him, incarcerate him or treat him into recovery. Wont happen. You can pray for him and those around him but you absolutely cannot condone his behavior if you really feel it is a problem.

I don't know the man and it isn't my place to make any judgments on anyone else's state of mind or if they have the disease of addiction/alcoholism but I can tell you about my realization.

What is called the "bottom" doesn't mean what most people think. The bottom is where the pain of change is lesser then the pain of staying the same crosses paths. For me it was a realization that if I kept using my daughter was going to grow up without her dad. Others it takes losing everything and still the pain of change is more then staying the same.

So it sounds like every one is saying you can do nothing but sit back and watch or walk away. You don't have to either. You can pray. Prayer is a powerful tool. You can also lead by example. Living a clean, sober and enjoyable life is very attractive and attraction is a powerful emotion. It is proven every day in meeting around the world. Attraction not promotion...

I said you cannot condone or approve of the behavior. If there is alcohol at gathering stay away. If he is drunk or hung over tell him when he is sober you will be happy to hang out or talk but not while he is drunk/hung over. With this if at anytime he puts anyone else in danger you absolutely must report him period. There can be no leeway on that. Sure a DUI is costly and might cost your friendship but a dead kid...there is no coming back from that...

I wish you all the luck and love in the world. Miracles happen...one just replied to you....

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[Nataly 38]

Thank you so much for sharing that... Was there something in particular that triggered your realisation?? Was it a slow realisation or one of those "aha moments?"

Sorry to ask, but sometimes it feels so hopeless to watch a train-wreck destroying everything in its path. Sometimes you wish you knew how to stop the (inevitable?) crash...

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[catfishhunter 1]

The first time was when I watched my father die from cancer, I was high on meth as he took his last breathes/ I knew I had to do something different or I was going to die or end up in prison. I moved to Utah and got clean on my own but I didn't really do anything but stop using. I got married had a daughter, got divorced and jumped into a bottle of Jim Beam. In 9 months I was back to sticking needles in my arms and while I was a functioning (great liar)addict (always had been) I was right back to were I was when I left Vegas.

On 2/10/2002 I was in bed after having been high for nearly a week and I had vision. I real honest to goodness vision, of my daughter. She was asking her mother where her daddy was. I watched as she bent down and looked in my daughters eyes and told her " your daddy is dead because he used drugs" I immediately jumped out of bed and grabbed my insurance card and called for help.

The lady that answered the phone that day saved my life. She kept me on the phone for 2 hours until she found an outpatient treatment center I could go to that wouldn't give away that I was in treatment so I wouldn't lose my job. She even threatened to lose her job by violating the law and calling my employer If I hung or didn't go immediately to the appointment she got for me.

There are many miracles some small and some big and some HUGE that I have experienced since then and lots of them have been posted here over the years but none of them would have been possible without my daughter asking her mother where he dad was....I am truly a blessed man..I wish I could give that to everyone...reminds me I need to get to a meeting...

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

weaverd

***Narking on someone to the cops, possibly ruining their life and costing them thousands of dollars sure seems like a puss move to me.

Sometimes people's life problems are simply nunya.

I bet you wouldn't be saying that if it was your loved one killed by a drunk driver. Why don't you go somewhere else.


He's entitled to his opinion as much as you are. Why don't you go somewhere else.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

For what it's worth, you tried. You even talked to the guy personally. You can't help everyone. Maybe focus on helping the kid. Even if it means pissing the guy off big time or maybe try an anonymous call to the kids school counselor.

[Tink1717 2]

There is nothing you can do for him. Walk away and save yourself. If you feel you must do something, reach out to his son and try to help him. His father is commiting a slow motion suicide and there is no way to change that.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[skymama 35]

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They have to want the help, hate to say it you could always give an anonymous tip to the police that so and so is driving drunk, that might be a harsh wake up lesson.

Where did she say that he drinks and drives? It's entirely possible for someone to be an alcoholic and not get behind the wheel.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[ianyapxw 0]

Thanks for your sharing. Your story is inspirational and it's great things turned out this way
Sorry for sounding like a noob, but what does 'clean' mean? Does it mean absolutely no alcohol including fruit cakes and jolly shandy, no alcoholic drinks (beer) or something else?

[jimmytavino 16]

jakee

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EVER have to DEAL with what's involved in a DWI or DUI charge?????? it sux.

Yeah? Good.

Nice "holier than thou " reply...........

there was not much Good about it...but sorry to disappoint you,,,,, it wasn't ME.

rather, a family member who was in No position to manage the issue..
I stood by,,, physically, emotionally and financially, throughout...
We got him through it and there HAVE been changes...(well, maybe some good.)
long story.... best left Untold.

nice to know that some of our colleagues here, are sooo sympathetic...

jmy

[Boomerdog 0]

You have good intentions, your heart is in the right place. You are also putting yourself (metaphorically speaking) in the path of a large buzz saw at full throttle setting. Simply put, the person in question does not recognize the problem and simply has not hit rock bottom yet and it's anyone's guess when and if that person will hit rock bottom. The dynamic you describe is also insulated by two enabling relatives and the bottom line, the case as you describe is way beyond your best intentions and level of concern. This one is for professionals. The ONLY reason I can site the "rock bottom" and "enabler" concepts is because a good friend of mine is a highly trained professional substance abuse counselor and we've had discussions over this but a discussions does not make me an expert so I too have to be careful in my commentary. Is this person driving intoxicated? It would be sad to have this person hit rock bottom after severely injuring or killing people. Be careful. In spite of your intentions and concerns which I and perhaps many here applaud, you can get sucked into this and the unintended consequences of getting too close will probably not be something you ever wished happened. The stark and sad fact is that there are times people make the choice to go off the cliff without a rig so to speak. Make sure you're not so close where they can grab you and take you with them.

[Boomerdog 0]

+10

[amstalder 0]

I agree with those who said you can't force an intervention or recovery. I grew up with the sloppy drunks and married into a family of functioning alcoholics, there's nothing you can do, if they don't see the problem.

That said, if there's anyway you can help the son, do it.

[catfishhunter 1]

ianyapxw

Thanks for your sharing. Your story is inspirational and it's great things turned out this way
Sorry for sounding like a noob, but what does 'clean' mean? Does it mean absolutely no alcohol including fruit cakes and jolly shandy, no alcoholic drinks (beer) or something else?

Clean is how an addict lives where an alcoholic says they are sober. Clean is free from all mind altering substances (drugs) which includes alcohol as alcohol is a drug. The saying goes one is to many and a thousand never enough

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[Andy9o8 0]

ianyapxw

what does 'clean' mean? Does it mean absolutely no alcohol including fruit cakes and jolly shandy, no alcoholic drinks (beer) or something else?

(In addition to the above answer...)
This is only anecdotal, and I defer to those living it (I have not) or health professionals (which I'm not). But in addition to having worked a lot with substance abusers in my career (criminal justice, then legal), I've also been friends/acquainted with a number of people who are now-functioning recovering alcoholics. FWIW, each of them was fanatical about avoiding even the slightest amount of alcohol or "alcohol flavoring" (rum flavoring, etc.), for fear of triggering a relapse. So for them, that includes any desserts with alcohol (rum cake, rum raisin ice cream, creme de menthe syrup, etc.), anything with "real" flavor extract (like real vanilla extract, which has alcohol), medicines w/alcohol (Nyquil, lots of liquid cough/cold remedies), the slightest drop of alcohol in a beverage, etc.

[jakee 1,257]

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there was not much Good about it...

Yeah there is. Fuck up, break the law, put other people in danger, get punished. That's how it should work.

If your family member had been regularly driving drunk and was not caught or charged with a DUI, that would have been bad.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[airtwardo 6]

Andy9o8

*** what does 'clean' mean? Does it mean absolutely no alcohol including fruit cakes and jolly shandy, no alcoholic drinks (beer) or something else?

(In addition to the above answer...)
This is only anecdotal, and I defer to those living it (I have not) or health professionals (which I'm not). But in addition to having worked a lot with substance abusers in my career (criminal justice, then legal), I've also been friends/acquainted with a number of people who are now-functioning recovering alcoholics. FWIW, each of them was fanatical about avoiding even the slightest amount of alcohol or "alcohol flavoring" (rum flavoring, etc.), for fear of triggering a relapse. So for them, that includes any desserts with alcohol (rum cake, rum raisin ice cream, creme de menthe syrup, etc.), anything with "real" flavor extract (like real vanilla extract, which has alcohol), medicines w/alcohol (Nyquil, lots of liquid cough/cold remedies), the slightest drop of alcohol in a beverage, etc.

Also not personally having any experience with addiction to substances...I was pretty surprised at the extent to which a friend avoids any exposure whatsoever to alcohol, in food - drink- and even consciously 'ignoring' television ads for liquor products!

He's about ten years clean, from what I understand his boozing destroyed more lives than just his...

I naively asked once, and he told me that for some like him addiction is a near overwhelming struggle that goes on every single second of every day.

That it never gets 'easier', but addicts can find certain comfort zones that make the temptation a bit less.

He then said that we would stop talking about it now & never talk about it again - because just even doing THAT was causing cravings!

I had no idea alcoholism the disease, could BE such a debilitating sickness - my respect went through the roof for my friend once I understood the Hell he goes through minute by minute.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[wolfriverjoe 1,345]

ianyapxw

Thanks for your sharing. Your story is inspirational and it's great things turned out this way
Sorry for sounding like a noob, but what does 'clean' mean? Does it mean absolutely no alcohol including fruit cakes and jolly shandy, no alcoholic drinks (beer) or something else?

There have been a few different answers, which is typical, because different people have different opinions.

Most people in recovery (as Catfish said) avoid any and all mind or mood altering substances.
And as was mentioned, they can lurk in a lot of places. Mouthwash, cold medicines (Nyquil is 21% alcohol), flavor extracts, and a bunch of others.
Cooking usually boils the alcohol off, so stuff like beer battered fish or wine used in a sauce won't contain the actual alcohol, but many avoid them to avoid the taste.
So called "Non-Alcoholic Beer" actually does contain a small amount of it, throw in the taste and most consider it a bad idea.
Then there are things like prescription painkillers (narcotic). There's a huge difference of opinion on those. Some feel that they shouldn't ever be used, others say that as long as they are taken as prescribed, for the pain and not to get high, then they are ok. That's a very personal decision and up to the individual.

The whole concept of recovery, however, is to learn to live life without needing to use. Stuff like beer commercials, liquor stores, bars, beer displays at convenience and grocery stores, ect. don't disappear. There will always be some level of temptation, unless he moves to Greenland or something. And then some Eskimo will probably show up with a bottle.
Someone who doesn't even want to talk about it because it raises too many demons is troubling, because they are often "white knuckling" it, holding on by sheer willpower. And that isn't something that will last forever.
The need to sometimes be around it is unavoidable for most. Weddings, business gatherings, sporting events, even just going out to dinner where the next table has a glass of wine. Most in recovery find that the obsession is lifted, at least to some degree. It never completely goes away, but the freedom of being able to live life without fear of a random event triggering a binge is what it's really about.

And the term "Rock Bottom" is a misnomer. That implies that the alcoholic can't go any lower.
Many stop before that, which is their own "Bottom." Someone who decides that they've had enough before they lose everything, before they end up in prison, before they kill someone. Lucky's friend may get stopped for DUI and decide that's enough. His wife may say "If you don't quit, I'm leaving" and that may be enough. Or he could wake up one morning and decide that he is "sick and tired of being sick and tired" and seek help. Every bottom is different.
It's said to newcomers that "Your bottom is where you decide to stop digging. If you decide to go back out, you can always dig yourself deeper."
True "Rock Bottom" is six feet down. You can't dig yourself any deeper than the grave.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[ianyapxw 0]

Thanks everyone for all the replies
Especially wolfriverjoe, for going on about other relavent information

[BIGUN 1,059]

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is oldest son (14 years old) is crying out for help with Facebook posts about feeling unloved

Love him. The rest of them are in a cyclone of drama and negativity of which the vortex will suck you in, drain you and spit you out on the other side. Help the one asking for help. Be his friend.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[skygypsie 2]

Chiquita

Unfortunately, until something happens and they get arrested for a dui or hurt someone somehow, they probably won't see it as an issue.

You could do some research into the long term effects of drinking, like alcoholic dementia, pancreatitis (sp?), etc. But even that may not help. I have known many people that drink/drank to varying degrees and seen several different effects of most everything, things that have worked and things that have not. Alcoholism is a demon that most don't seem to be able beat.

I know a few people that have said they will not quit drinking because they don't like their life without it, even though they have been in the hospital with alcohol related issues. And a few of them the doctor said they will die if they keep drinking, but they still drink

Sadly, you are so right.
We have tried to intervene with my youngest sister, who is barely 40 & has had a severe drinking problem for years.
It became worse when her husband was killed in a car accident 1 mile from their home, a few years ago.
He was determined to be DOA / DUI
She now suffers from alcoholic seizures & has early stages of cirrhosis.
She has been a gorgeous, intelligent & kind hearted girl.
Her 3 minor children were taken from her 2 years ago.
2 are now adults.
4 of her 5 children will have nothing to do with her.
Her youngest just turned 11
He is being raised by another sister, who has permanent legal custody.
In a few days she goes for her sentencing hearing for her 4th OWI in less than 5 years with her BAC .38 .
She is looking at 3-6 years in prison.
Though she is out on absolute sobriety bond since her arrest, she continues to drink.
It appears realistically, her only salvation will be a lengthy incarceration, though she has already stated she just wants to be able to drink "socially" when she gets out

[wmw999 2,123]

I had a relative who was about like that; she died of an alcohol-induced head injury at 41. Her cirrhosis was more advanced; she needed medication. No one likes that medication, because it gives you the runs.

About a year and a half before she died, she was interned in the state mental hospital for 9 months. When she got out, she stayed sober for about 4 weeks, and I don't think I ever knew her to be prouder of anything, than the 10 months of sobriety she'd maintained. The fact that 9 of them were interned in a mental hospital was irrelevant. But as soon as she started letting all the old people into her life, she went back to it. Tried moving away, but her brain was far enough gone from the long-term abuse that she wasn't able to maintain her apartment. So she moved back in with her long-term boyfriend, and ended up dying on the sofa from a head injury, in a drunk haze.

Help the son; give or find him a safe place where he can just hang out, even though you don't have kids his age. Be his ride to Boy Scouts, or whatever other group he's interested in. And Al-a-teen can be useful, and provide friends. If his parents won't acknowledge there's a problem, they might not be willing for him to participate in that; if so, then he might talk to his school counselor to see if there are other counseling alternatives.

But any activities that take him out of the house for extended periods, and that build constructive social networks of his own, will be good. Doesn't make you responsible for being his social network, he needs kids for that. But if you can help him to find one, up to and including financing a week at YMCA camp or something like that in the summer (call it a "scholarship"), would be a kindness. He needs behavior models.

If his family has an association with any church whatsoever, that might be a good place for him to go to the teens' group and find some fun with his peers that takes him out of the house

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[skygypsie 2]

Wendy, it is hard & sad to watch.
"She" also has had severe brain injury (brain bleed) requiring surgery, her jaw & ribs broken from falls.
No doubt she has lost everything & most everybody
Unfortunately I live close to 400 miles away from her & my family, though I do stay in contact with her.
My sister & her husband who are now raising her son, are amazing 'parents' to him.
He was raised a farm boy & spends weekends at his father's family farm.
He is involved in quite a few activities & outings, though he still questions his Mom...
"when can I come back home ?"
I have a very big family, with 9 siblings, so he has many cousins around his age...most living in their area.
His aunts & uncles & older siblings also step up to help fill his void...
his father is dead, his mother is trying to be...so we all know what it is most likely do to him (them) inside
She has also had 2 suicide attempts in the past year.
Her last was her 4th DUI, when she intentionally slammed her car into the tree where her husband was killed.
She broke her neck & 7 ribs.
I've told her it would seem she is meant to "live" !
She will be sentenced this afternoon. Hopefully it will save her life !
She continues to remain in my prayers.
Your story & advice are much appreciated !

[soberamprat 0]

His exWife takes him to court for extra money at least 4 times a year and he's extremely hateful about her. I am thinking there is a huge problem. She is continually keeping him depressed and him trying to forget at least in the beginning. My son is in that same boat and is always bum out having to work up to 80hrs a week just to keep him self in a shit hole of a place to live knowing his ex (who married a millionaire) is living high on the hog. And no I am not making any excuses for him just looking at it from his point of view.

http://www.swoopstudios.com/videos/videos-rex.php

[LuckyMcSwervy 0]

Wow. I'm absolutely blown away and humbled by all of the heartfelt responses. I've read every single response and I apologize from the bottom of my heart for causing any triggers or bad memories to some of you. I never imagined there were so many of you that alcohol and/or drug abuse has touched. I wish everyone the strength to stay clean and sober or the fortitude to keep strong for loved ones fighting the fight. It's ugly.

That being said, I admit I'm mentally wiped out. A few nights ago it got ugly. I've copied and pasted part of my response to a PM because it pretty much just shoots from the hip how I was feeling at the time:

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He called me about an hour ago and motherfucked me up and down, called me a nosy fucking cunt, who did I think I was, I think I'm better than everyone else, for me to stay the fuck away from his friends and family, he can handle his alcohol, he's got money, and then says he's a piece of crap and I'm such a good person. He sounded a little slurry so I assume he was off today and already drinking.

I'm going to walk away and let him sink or swim. I have my own health issue with MS and stress is the worst thing for it in my case. No one talks to me the way he has and still gets any respect from me. Hell, when my exHusband and I were going through me finding out about his affair and then a nasty divorce we never ever yelled or raised our voices once. No one raises their voice to me.

I'm going to cut him out of my life entirely. I almost said to him this evening that now I know why your wife cheated on you and you guys got divorced. I'm not that mean to actually tell someone that mean thought.

One person alone can't help him when all of his family and friends are enablers, all party people, all big drinkers. I wasn't raised in a home where there was ever any alcohol. In fact, my Dad's Dad was a highly functioning alcoholic and my Dad despised drinking in general. So, I was never exposed to the bad behaviors that can come from it until I was a late teenager and being at parties and stuff like that.

After I wrote the above, the next day he called me again from number I didn't recognize but I picked up anyway thinking it was a call I'd been waiting for. He then threatened that if I made any more phone calls or emails to his family or friends, he was calling the police to tell them I was harassing him, he knows all the cops, etc. He knows one contact with law enforcement that isn't work related for me causes me to get my security clearances suspended, no questions asked, until it's sorted out by my superiors. He knows I'm smarter than that to think he could get anywhere legally with me, but to threaten my career and do something to maliciously fuck with my stellar reputation is beyond out of bounds.

The bottom line is he can go fuck himself. I'm out. I tried to be a good friend since it sure as hell looked like no one else cared enough to help. This is the thanks I get. Nice guys finish last.

I've had a headache for the last 4 days over the stress of someone twisting my good intentions to me being a nosy bitch. All I wanted is for someone who deep down is a good person not to end up facing an early death due to alcohol abuse. Silly me.

Always be kinder than you feel.