kjarv 0 #1 October 24, 2004 I am currently living in Italy and came up on a silly italian rule. As it turns out, in italy, they will only allow your rig to be used for 2 years from when it entered the country before your rig has to be 'registered' with the italian government. Trouble is, this registration costs 140 euro, and I'm generally opposed to spending money for no return on investment. All you get for your money is an italian log book that is pretty much just an equivalent to a US packing data card. So my options are: 1. Go back to the US and get my rig inspected/repacked--- trip back to the US will cost at least $500 so not a great plan. 2. Ship my rig back to the US for an inspection repack, which will cost money in shipping, and expose my rig to the US postal system and leave me without it for untold weeks :( 3. Follow the rules and waste 140 euro. 4. Fake an entry on my packing data card to make it look like my rig was inspected/repacked in the US--- FREE! To be clear, I have no interest or intent on skipping any repack cycles. This came up at my italian DZ doing my last repack and the DZO informed me that he wouldn't be able to do another repack or allow me to jump there anymore when my rig reaches the 2 year point in italy (this Dec). Is there anything I need to know before I do choose option 4? Any tips on faking an entry? DZO requires that we operate the handles on a reserve repack so I could kipe the riggers seal before they get their hands on it. Is there anything that gets done on a reserve repack in the US that they might not do here in Italy? thanks -kjarv Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloggy 1 #2 October 24, 2004 Option 1 + boogie somewhere? Couldn't you have your repack done in Europe somewhere (lower shipping cost/time)? Don't know if that would be OK with USPA regulations though. Option 4 could have some insurance implications... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kjarv 0 #3 October 24, 2004 I've had my rig inspected/repacked here in italy for the past 1.5 years--- it's the 2 year point that's the problem. Per italian law, I gotta get a logbook here or get the rig inspected/repacked once every 2 years in the U.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #4 October 24, 2004 Who has enough time on their hands to make a dumb ass law like that??? Especially on a not so popular sport like this. Do they require the same thing on footballs and frizbeessss? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #5 October 24, 2004 The law may be related to an import duty on nylon, and the two years allows visitors and temporary residents to avoid the charge. My hunch is this fee is a tax with a very unusual name/collection method. If you are in the country and intend to remain in country, I would go ahead and pay the tax. A nice alternative would be to check with the national skydiving group, or the importer of parachute equipment. It may be that the tax is unlawful under current trade agreements, and nobody has looked at it from this perspective. Or, it may be a means of raising funds for a targeted purpose that is legal and appropriate.Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kjarv 0 #6 October 24, 2004 Hadn't thought of that--- a tax on nylon--- I need to get a chute made of somethin' else Actually, my understanding of italian law (what I can determine from my extremely weak italian translation skills) is skydiving gear is treated and tracked exactly like an aircraft (I would get a maintenance logbook, similar to one for an airplane) I'm sure the money goes into paying whatever beuracracy that is their aviation system (or maybe it's just funnelled directly to aliatalia to try to bail them out If I was a lifer here in italy, I'd probably just pay the tax and be done with it, but as I'm just here for another 6-10 months, I can't help thinking it's a waste of dinero. ------------------- to hijack my own thread: It sure would be nice if USPA would publish foreign country skydiving rules/laws especially if the DZ's are claiming to be USPA members. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #7 October 24, 2004 You are so BUSTED! Now that you have made you illegal intentions public, no Italian DZ can allow you to get away with pencil packing. Sorry to disillusion you, but far more Italians read English than Americans read Italian. ... and Italian DZs attract far more than their share of polyglot Italians. A few of those polyglot Italians visit this forum on a regular basis. And why do yo have to mail your rig back to the USA? There are plenty of honest riggers in France, Switzerland, Austria, Croatia, etc. ... and I have only named countries that border on Italy. If you attended a weekend boogie in any of those countries, you could get your reserve LEGALLY repacked and heaven-forbid (!) you might actually learn something new about skydiving! What did Jesus say? ... something about "when in Rome do as the Romans do" ... or was it "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #8 October 24, 2004 It doesn't really matter what you think about their law. It's there law and their country. This is one reason Americans have such a bad reputation around the world, we think we are above other countries petty little laws. Would you try a pull that crap in the US? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #9 October 24, 2004 QuoteIt doesn't really matter what you think about their law. It's there law and their country. This is one reason Americans have such a bad reputation around the world, we think we are above other countries petty little laws. you hit the nail on the head there. i Have been travelling different countries for years and the first thing you need to do before you go to another country is realise that you MUST follow their laws, or do not go there. I am thinking that in italy you only repack every 6 months....so you can look at this as a return investment if you are staying there a while instead of the U.S silly rule of repacking every 3 months. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pms07 3 #10 October 24, 2004 Having lived and jumped and Europe, my experience is that it's easier to go along with the local rules...even if it costs a little bit of cash. 140Euros really isn't that dramatic. If you can't live with the rules, don't jump. Or, as is always an alternative, don't get caught... pms Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #11 October 24, 2004 I just read your profile. You are not only an American living in Italy, you are a member of the Military service. We are paying you to represent us to the rest of the world. Do it right.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kosanke 0 #12 October 24, 2004 the italians should waive to fee for military personnel. after all, if it was'nt for the US, you'd be paying in marks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meandean 0 #13 October 25, 2004 I thought in the U.S. the repack cycle is 120 days, closer to 4 months? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #14 October 25, 2004 QuoteI thought in the U.S. the repack cycle is 120 days, closer to 4 months? You are correct, Bigway was not.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kjarv 0 #15 October 25, 2004 There seems to be confusion--- I'm not skipping repack cycles, I've been faithful to both mine and their cycles (120 days). If I just have to have my rig repacked in a country OTHER than italy, I'd go for it, but it was explained to me that I must return the rig to the USA for at least one repack every 2 years , but that would mean going to a boogie and hoping that there is a US rigger there (I don't know how many of ya are out thereso when I return to the DZ in italy I must have a repack entry that is from a US rigger.... if anyone knows someone with a US ticket somewhere in europe, I'll put those 140 euro's right into a trip...money well spent Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kjarv 0 #16 October 25, 2004 I just read your profile. You are not only an American living in Italy, you are a member of the Military service. We are paying you to represent us to the rest of the world. Do it right. Quote Send me 140 euro's and I'll be happy to It's so much easier to be virtuous when it doesn't cost anything And no, you're not paying us to represent the US to the rest of the world, those guys are called ambassadors. You're paying us military types to kill people and break their stuff on behalf of the US Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kjarv 0 #17 October 25, 2004 It doesn't really matter what you think about their law. It's there law and their country. This is one reason Americans have such a bad reputation around the world, we think we are above other countries petty little laws. Would you try a pull that crap in the US? Quote Oddly enough, why yes, I think we all pull that crap in the US--- do you comply with all laws you think are silly? Do you always follow our silly speed limits or do you do a risk vs benefit--- 59 in a 55 perhaps? who's gonna pull you over for 4 mph? I apply my silly law rule to all countries equally. If a rule is silly, weigh the risks then ignore it or find a way around it--- or if risk is too great, then comply and complain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WeakMindedFool 0 #18 October 25, 2004 ROFL!!! You rule!Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #19 October 25, 2004 QuoteI just read your profile. You are not only an American living in Italy, you are a member of the Military service. We are paying you to represent us to the rest of the world. Do it right. Quote Send me 140 euro's and I'll be happy to It's so much easier to be virtuous when it doesn't cost anything And no, you're not paying us to represent the US to the rest of the world, those guys are called ambassadors. You're paying us military types to kill people and break their stuff on behalf of the US As I said before, it is Americans with your attitude that make the rest of the world dislike all Americans. I won't send you any money, but what I can do is send a note to your CO and get his response to how this situation should be handled. There is a large difference between going 4 or 5 miles over the speed limit and falsifying a document in a foreign country. And it has nothing to do with being "virtuous", but it has everything to do with being Honest. You might try it sometime.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ematteo 0 #20 October 25, 2004 Do you have access to a rigger on base? Someone who does ejection seat repacks, PJ rigger, etc? Sounds like you may just need a US seal. For what it is worth, US military bases and consulates are often considered to be "US soil." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tombuch 0 #21 October 25, 2004 QuoteDo you have access to a rigger on base? Someone who does ejection seat repacks, PJ rigger, etc? Sounds like you may just need a US seal. Now there is a great suggestion. Contact the folks in life support. You may find a military rigger who also has his FAA rigging certificate. -tb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kjarv 0 #22 October 25, 2004 Do you have access to a rigger on base? Someone who does ejection seat repacks, PJ rigger, etc? Sounds like you may just need a US seal. For what it is worth, US military bases and consulates are often considered to be "US soil." Quote YAY! A good way out. I knew the forums would digup a more reasonable solution--- off to find a rigger in life support. THANKS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #23 October 25, 2004 You could always hop across the med to Empuriabrava on the North East coast of Spain. It's nice and close so you should be able to do it very cheaply on a budget airline and it would be a great short break. The DZ's BPA afilliated so ought to have a BPA rigger. Then you'd get your rig repacked by someone outside of Italy AND it would have a 6 month life span on it (assuming Italy will honour that). Hell for that matter I believe there's a German rigger there and their repacks are good for longer too (again assuming Italy honours the longer period). If you run out in Dec why not have your trip co-incide with the Christmas Boogie Empuria is having. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kjarv 0 #24 October 25, 2004 As I said before, it is Americans with your attitude that make the rest of the world dislike all Americans. Quote An interesting position-- I would submit that someone who uses threats of force e.g. "Call my CO" versus simple appeasement "Sending me 140 euro" would be more akin to the attitude that europeans don't like Nope, not that much difference in 4-5 mph over the speed limit versus falsifying a document in this particular instance-- both harmless, both illegal. However, I will concede that falsing an entry on a doc is indeed a lie whereas speeding, well that usually doesn't become a lie until you are pulled over and the police start asking tough questions like "Do you know how fast you were going?". Curses, foiled again by ethics And finally, CO has no UCMJ juristiction over civil affairs and certainly could do nothing until an actual crime was committed-- he might be able to prevent said crime though-maybe you could send him/her the 140 euro relax, really, I'm teasing In this particular case, if I did indeed forge the doc, CO would have to go send the case to OSI. OSI couldn't prosecute though as it is a civil matter but my guess is they could alert authorities to my alleged evildoings. Then, assuming I was evil, and did get prosecuted in a civil court and was found guilty (FAA? I wonder where this would fall), the military would then have evidence that I falsified a doc - and could begin to proceed with UCMJ action. Of course there's always "Conduct Unbecoming" but I don't think even this discussion would warrant that ps really I meant this reply to be friendly picking on ya, I'll buy you a beer sometime if I really offended! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kjarv 0 #25 October 25, 2004 WAHOOO, Christmas boogie in Empuria-- I love it there, GREAT excuse for a trip and leaves my honor intact THANKS! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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kjarv 0 #16 October 25, 2004 I just read your profile. You are not only an American living in Italy, you are a member of the Military service. We are paying you to represent us to the rest of the world. Do it right. Quote Send me 140 euro's and I'll be happy to It's so much easier to be virtuous when it doesn't cost anything And no, you're not paying us to represent the US to the rest of the world, those guys are called ambassadors. You're paying us military types to kill people and break their stuff on behalf of the US Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kjarv 0 #17 October 25, 2004 It doesn't really matter what you think about their law. It's there law and their country. This is one reason Americans have such a bad reputation around the world, we think we are above other countries petty little laws. Would you try a pull that crap in the US? Quote Oddly enough, why yes, I think we all pull that crap in the US--- do you comply with all laws you think are silly? Do you always follow our silly speed limits or do you do a risk vs benefit--- 59 in a 55 perhaps? who's gonna pull you over for 4 mph? I apply my silly law rule to all countries equally. If a rule is silly, weigh the risks then ignore it or find a way around it--- or if risk is too great, then comply and complain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WeakMindedFool 0 #18 October 25, 2004 ROFL!!! You rule!Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #19 October 25, 2004 QuoteI just read your profile. You are not only an American living in Italy, you are a member of the Military service. We are paying you to represent us to the rest of the world. Do it right. Quote Send me 140 euro's and I'll be happy to It's so much easier to be virtuous when it doesn't cost anything And no, you're not paying us to represent the US to the rest of the world, those guys are called ambassadors. You're paying us military types to kill people and break their stuff on behalf of the US As I said before, it is Americans with your attitude that make the rest of the world dislike all Americans. I won't send you any money, but what I can do is send a note to your CO and get his response to how this situation should be handled. There is a large difference between going 4 or 5 miles over the speed limit and falsifying a document in a foreign country. And it has nothing to do with being "virtuous", but it has everything to do with being Honest. You might try it sometime.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ematteo 0 #20 October 25, 2004 Do you have access to a rigger on base? Someone who does ejection seat repacks, PJ rigger, etc? Sounds like you may just need a US seal. For what it is worth, US military bases and consulates are often considered to be "US soil." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tombuch 0 #21 October 25, 2004 QuoteDo you have access to a rigger on base? Someone who does ejection seat repacks, PJ rigger, etc? Sounds like you may just need a US seal. Now there is a great suggestion. Contact the folks in life support. You may find a military rigger who also has his FAA rigging certificate. -tb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kjarv 0 #22 October 25, 2004 Do you have access to a rigger on base? Someone who does ejection seat repacks, PJ rigger, etc? Sounds like you may just need a US seal. For what it is worth, US military bases and consulates are often considered to be "US soil." Quote YAY! A good way out. I knew the forums would digup a more reasonable solution--- off to find a rigger in life support. THANKS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #23 October 25, 2004 You could always hop across the med to Empuriabrava on the North East coast of Spain. It's nice and close so you should be able to do it very cheaply on a budget airline and it would be a great short break. The DZ's BPA afilliated so ought to have a BPA rigger. Then you'd get your rig repacked by someone outside of Italy AND it would have a 6 month life span on it (assuming Italy will honour that). Hell for that matter I believe there's a German rigger there and their repacks are good for longer too (again assuming Italy honours the longer period). If you run out in Dec why not have your trip co-incide with the Christmas Boogie Empuria is having. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kjarv 0 #24 October 25, 2004 As I said before, it is Americans with your attitude that make the rest of the world dislike all Americans. Quote An interesting position-- I would submit that someone who uses threats of force e.g. "Call my CO" versus simple appeasement "Sending me 140 euro" would be more akin to the attitude that europeans don't like Nope, not that much difference in 4-5 mph over the speed limit versus falsifying a document in this particular instance-- both harmless, both illegal. However, I will concede that falsing an entry on a doc is indeed a lie whereas speeding, well that usually doesn't become a lie until you are pulled over and the police start asking tough questions like "Do you know how fast you were going?". Curses, foiled again by ethics And finally, CO has no UCMJ juristiction over civil affairs and certainly could do nothing until an actual crime was committed-- he might be able to prevent said crime though-maybe you could send him/her the 140 euro relax, really, I'm teasing In this particular case, if I did indeed forge the doc, CO would have to go send the case to OSI. OSI couldn't prosecute though as it is a civil matter but my guess is they could alert authorities to my alleged evildoings. Then, assuming I was evil, and did get prosecuted in a civil court and was found guilty (FAA? I wonder where this would fall), the military would then have evidence that I falsified a doc - and could begin to proceed with UCMJ action. Of course there's always "Conduct Unbecoming" but I don't think even this discussion would warrant that ps really I meant this reply to be friendly picking on ya, I'll buy you a beer sometime if I really offended! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kjarv 0 #25 October 25, 2004 WAHOOO, Christmas boogie in Empuria-- I love it there, GREAT excuse for a trip and leaves my honor intact THANKS! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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kjarv 0 #17 October 25, 2004 It doesn't really matter what you think about their law. It's there law and their country. This is one reason Americans have such a bad reputation around the world, we think we are above other countries petty little laws. Would you try a pull that crap in the US? Quote Oddly enough, why yes, I think we all pull that crap in the US--- do you comply with all laws you think are silly? Do you always follow our silly speed limits or do you do a risk vs benefit--- 59 in a 55 perhaps? who's gonna pull you over for 4 mph? I apply my silly law rule to all countries equally. If a rule is silly, weigh the risks then ignore it or find a way around it--- or if risk is too great, then comply and complain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WeakMindedFool 0 #18 October 25, 2004 ROFL!!! You rule!Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #19 October 25, 2004 QuoteI just read your profile. You are not only an American living in Italy, you are a member of the Military service. We are paying you to represent us to the rest of the world. Do it right. Quote Send me 140 euro's and I'll be happy to It's so much easier to be virtuous when it doesn't cost anything And no, you're not paying us to represent the US to the rest of the world, those guys are called ambassadors. You're paying us military types to kill people and break their stuff on behalf of the US As I said before, it is Americans with your attitude that make the rest of the world dislike all Americans. I won't send you any money, but what I can do is send a note to your CO and get his response to how this situation should be handled. There is a large difference between going 4 or 5 miles over the speed limit and falsifying a document in a foreign country. And it has nothing to do with being "virtuous", but it has everything to do with being Honest. You might try it sometime.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ematteo 0 #20 October 25, 2004 Do you have access to a rigger on base? Someone who does ejection seat repacks, PJ rigger, etc? Sounds like you may just need a US seal. For what it is worth, US military bases and consulates are often considered to be "US soil." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tombuch 0 #21 October 25, 2004 QuoteDo you have access to a rigger on base? Someone who does ejection seat repacks, PJ rigger, etc? Sounds like you may just need a US seal. Now there is a great suggestion. Contact the folks in life support. You may find a military rigger who also has his FAA rigging certificate. -tb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kjarv 0 #22 October 25, 2004 Do you have access to a rigger on base? Someone who does ejection seat repacks, PJ rigger, etc? Sounds like you may just need a US seal. For what it is worth, US military bases and consulates are often considered to be "US soil." Quote YAY! A good way out. I knew the forums would digup a more reasonable solution--- off to find a rigger in life support. THANKS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #23 October 25, 2004 You could always hop across the med to Empuriabrava on the North East coast of Spain. It's nice and close so you should be able to do it very cheaply on a budget airline and it would be a great short break. The DZ's BPA afilliated so ought to have a BPA rigger. Then you'd get your rig repacked by someone outside of Italy AND it would have a 6 month life span on it (assuming Italy will honour that). Hell for that matter I believe there's a German rigger there and their repacks are good for longer too (again assuming Italy honours the longer period). If you run out in Dec why not have your trip co-incide with the Christmas Boogie Empuria is having. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kjarv 0 #24 October 25, 2004 As I said before, it is Americans with your attitude that make the rest of the world dislike all Americans. Quote An interesting position-- I would submit that someone who uses threats of force e.g. "Call my CO" versus simple appeasement "Sending me 140 euro" would be more akin to the attitude that europeans don't like Nope, not that much difference in 4-5 mph over the speed limit versus falsifying a document in this particular instance-- both harmless, both illegal. However, I will concede that falsing an entry on a doc is indeed a lie whereas speeding, well that usually doesn't become a lie until you are pulled over and the police start asking tough questions like "Do you know how fast you were going?". Curses, foiled again by ethics And finally, CO has no UCMJ juristiction over civil affairs and certainly could do nothing until an actual crime was committed-- he might be able to prevent said crime though-maybe you could send him/her the 140 euro relax, really, I'm teasing In this particular case, if I did indeed forge the doc, CO would have to go send the case to OSI. OSI couldn't prosecute though as it is a civil matter but my guess is they could alert authorities to my alleged evildoings. Then, assuming I was evil, and did get prosecuted in a civil court and was found guilty (FAA? I wonder where this would fall), the military would then have evidence that I falsified a doc - and could begin to proceed with UCMJ action. Of course there's always "Conduct Unbecoming" but I don't think even this discussion would warrant that ps really I meant this reply to be friendly picking on ya, I'll buy you a beer sometime if I really offended! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kjarv 0 #25 October 25, 2004 WAHOOO, Christmas boogie in Empuria-- I love it there, GREAT excuse for a trip and leaves my honor intact THANKS! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing × Sign In Sign Up Forums Dropzones Classifieds Gear Indoor Articles Photos Videos Calendar Stolen Fatalities Leaderboard Activity Back Activity All Activity My Activity Streams Unread Content Content I Started
WeakMindedFool 0 #18 October 25, 2004 ROFL!!! You rule!Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #19 October 25, 2004 QuoteI just read your profile. You are not only an American living in Italy, you are a member of the Military service. We are paying you to represent us to the rest of the world. Do it right. Quote Send me 140 euro's and I'll be happy to It's so much easier to be virtuous when it doesn't cost anything And no, you're not paying us to represent the US to the rest of the world, those guys are called ambassadors. You're paying us military types to kill people and break their stuff on behalf of the US As I said before, it is Americans with your attitude that make the rest of the world dislike all Americans. I won't send you any money, but what I can do is send a note to your CO and get his response to how this situation should be handled. There is a large difference between going 4 or 5 miles over the speed limit and falsifying a document in a foreign country. And it has nothing to do with being "virtuous", but it has everything to do with being Honest. You might try it sometime.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ematteo 0 #20 October 25, 2004 Do you have access to a rigger on base? Someone who does ejection seat repacks, PJ rigger, etc? Sounds like you may just need a US seal. For what it is worth, US military bases and consulates are often considered to be "US soil." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tombuch 0 #21 October 25, 2004 QuoteDo you have access to a rigger on base? Someone who does ejection seat repacks, PJ rigger, etc? Sounds like you may just need a US seal. Now there is a great suggestion. Contact the folks in life support. You may find a military rigger who also has his FAA rigging certificate. -tb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kjarv 0 #22 October 25, 2004 Do you have access to a rigger on base? Someone who does ejection seat repacks, PJ rigger, etc? Sounds like you may just need a US seal. For what it is worth, US military bases and consulates are often considered to be "US soil." Quote YAY! A good way out. I knew the forums would digup a more reasonable solution--- off to find a rigger in life support. THANKS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #23 October 25, 2004 You could always hop across the med to Empuriabrava on the North East coast of Spain. It's nice and close so you should be able to do it very cheaply on a budget airline and it would be a great short break. The DZ's BPA afilliated so ought to have a BPA rigger. Then you'd get your rig repacked by someone outside of Italy AND it would have a 6 month life span on it (assuming Italy will honour that). Hell for that matter I believe there's a German rigger there and their repacks are good for longer too (again assuming Italy honours the longer period). If you run out in Dec why not have your trip co-incide with the Christmas Boogie Empuria is having. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kjarv 0 #24 October 25, 2004 As I said before, it is Americans with your attitude that make the rest of the world dislike all Americans. Quote An interesting position-- I would submit that someone who uses threats of force e.g. "Call my CO" versus simple appeasement "Sending me 140 euro" would be more akin to the attitude that europeans don't like Nope, not that much difference in 4-5 mph over the speed limit versus falsifying a document in this particular instance-- both harmless, both illegal. However, I will concede that falsing an entry on a doc is indeed a lie whereas speeding, well that usually doesn't become a lie until you are pulled over and the police start asking tough questions like "Do you know how fast you were going?". Curses, foiled again by ethics And finally, CO has no UCMJ juristiction over civil affairs and certainly could do nothing until an actual crime was committed-- he might be able to prevent said crime though-maybe you could send him/her the 140 euro relax, really, I'm teasing In this particular case, if I did indeed forge the doc, CO would have to go send the case to OSI. OSI couldn't prosecute though as it is a civil matter but my guess is they could alert authorities to my alleged evildoings. Then, assuming I was evil, and did get prosecuted in a civil court and was found guilty (FAA? I wonder where this would fall), the military would then have evidence that I falsified a doc - and could begin to proceed with UCMJ action. Of course there's always "Conduct Unbecoming" but I don't think even this discussion would warrant that ps really I meant this reply to be friendly picking on ya, I'll buy you a beer sometime if I really offended! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kjarv 0 #25 October 25, 2004 WAHOOO, Christmas boogie in Empuria-- I love it there, GREAT excuse for a trip and leaves my honor intact THANKS! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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ematteo 0 #20 October 25, 2004 Do you have access to a rigger on base? Someone who does ejection seat repacks, PJ rigger, etc? Sounds like you may just need a US seal. For what it is worth, US military bases and consulates are often considered to be "US soil." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #21 October 25, 2004 QuoteDo you have access to a rigger on base? Someone who does ejection seat repacks, PJ rigger, etc? Sounds like you may just need a US seal. Now there is a great suggestion. Contact the folks in life support. You may find a military rigger who also has his FAA rigging certificate. -tb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kjarv 0 #22 October 25, 2004 Do you have access to a rigger on base? Someone who does ejection seat repacks, PJ rigger, etc? Sounds like you may just need a US seal. For what it is worth, US military bases and consulates are often considered to be "US soil." Quote YAY! A good way out. I knew the forums would digup a more reasonable solution--- off to find a rigger in life support. THANKS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #23 October 25, 2004 You could always hop across the med to Empuriabrava on the North East coast of Spain. It's nice and close so you should be able to do it very cheaply on a budget airline and it would be a great short break. The DZ's BPA afilliated so ought to have a BPA rigger. Then you'd get your rig repacked by someone outside of Italy AND it would have a 6 month life span on it (assuming Italy will honour that). Hell for that matter I believe there's a German rigger there and their repacks are good for longer too (again assuming Italy honours the longer period). If you run out in Dec why not have your trip co-incide with the Christmas Boogie Empuria is having. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kjarv 0 #24 October 25, 2004 As I said before, it is Americans with your attitude that make the rest of the world dislike all Americans. Quote An interesting position-- I would submit that someone who uses threats of force e.g. "Call my CO" versus simple appeasement "Sending me 140 euro" would be more akin to the attitude that europeans don't like Nope, not that much difference in 4-5 mph over the speed limit versus falsifying a document in this particular instance-- both harmless, both illegal. However, I will concede that falsing an entry on a doc is indeed a lie whereas speeding, well that usually doesn't become a lie until you are pulled over and the police start asking tough questions like "Do you know how fast you were going?". Curses, foiled again by ethics And finally, CO has no UCMJ juristiction over civil affairs and certainly could do nothing until an actual crime was committed-- he might be able to prevent said crime though-maybe you could send him/her the 140 euro relax, really, I'm teasing In this particular case, if I did indeed forge the doc, CO would have to go send the case to OSI. OSI couldn't prosecute though as it is a civil matter but my guess is they could alert authorities to my alleged evildoings. Then, assuming I was evil, and did get prosecuted in a civil court and was found guilty (FAA? I wonder where this would fall), the military would then have evidence that I falsified a doc - and could begin to proceed with UCMJ action. Of course there's always "Conduct Unbecoming" but I don't think even this discussion would warrant that ps really I meant this reply to be friendly picking on ya, I'll buy you a beer sometime if I really offended! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kjarv 0 #25 October 25, 2004 WAHOOO, Christmas boogie in Empuria-- I love it there, GREAT excuse for a trip and leaves my honor intact THANKS! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
mr2mk1g 10 #23 October 25, 2004 You could always hop across the med to Empuriabrava on the North East coast of Spain. It's nice and close so you should be able to do it very cheaply on a budget airline and it would be a great short break. The DZ's BPA afilliated so ought to have a BPA rigger. Then you'd get your rig repacked by someone outside of Italy AND it would have a 6 month life span on it (assuming Italy will honour that). Hell for that matter I believe there's a German rigger there and their repacks are good for longer too (again assuming Italy honours the longer period). If you run out in Dec why not have your trip co-incide with the Christmas Boogie Empuria is having. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kjarv 0 #24 October 25, 2004 As I said before, it is Americans with your attitude that make the rest of the world dislike all Americans. Quote An interesting position-- I would submit that someone who uses threats of force e.g. "Call my CO" versus simple appeasement "Sending me 140 euro" would be more akin to the attitude that europeans don't like Nope, not that much difference in 4-5 mph over the speed limit versus falsifying a document in this particular instance-- both harmless, both illegal. However, I will concede that falsing an entry on a doc is indeed a lie whereas speeding, well that usually doesn't become a lie until you are pulled over and the police start asking tough questions like "Do you know how fast you were going?". Curses, foiled again by ethics And finally, CO has no UCMJ juristiction over civil affairs and certainly could do nothing until an actual crime was committed-- he might be able to prevent said crime though-maybe you could send him/her the 140 euro relax, really, I'm teasing In this particular case, if I did indeed forge the doc, CO would have to go send the case to OSI. OSI couldn't prosecute though as it is a civil matter but my guess is they could alert authorities to my alleged evildoings. Then, assuming I was evil, and did get prosecuted in a civil court and was found guilty (FAA? I wonder where this would fall), the military would then have evidence that I falsified a doc - and could begin to proceed with UCMJ action. Of course there's always "Conduct Unbecoming" but I don't think even this discussion would warrant that ps really I meant this reply to be friendly picking on ya, I'll buy you a beer sometime if I really offended! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kjarv 0 #25 October 25, 2004 WAHOOO, Christmas boogie in Empuria-- I love it there, GREAT excuse for a trip and leaves my honor intact THANKS! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
kjarv 0 #25 October 25, 2004 WAHOOO, Christmas boogie in Empuria-- I love it there, GREAT excuse for a trip and leaves my honor intact THANKS! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
