lintern 1 #1 July 8, 2004 I have just bought a used Wings container which has a soft pad reserve handle. Some people are advising me to get it changed to a metal D handle whilst others say don't bother. Does anyone have an opinion or advice on these soft pad reserve handles? I have actually had a malfunction (on static line RAPS - a lineover) and went through my reserve drills. However, the procedure I used was not the procedure I had been taught and practiced. I was originally taught to use 2 hands on each handle but when I cutaway for real I actually used 1 hand on each handle. Even so, my cutaway procedure did not go by the book.... probably due to the adrenalin etc. I forgot to peel the cutaway pad and just pulled it instead. Because of this the cutaway pad and cable only came so far out and I lost grip of the pad. I then had to go back and grab the pad to finish the cutaway. As I now have two pads to peel and punch (the cutaway AND now the reserve) I am a little concerned I may fumble with the peel and punch like I did when I had a mal. I know the soft pad reserve handles are suppose to be safer when freeflying but I have only just finished AFF so I won't be freeflying for a while ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #2 July 8, 2004 They aren't good or bad. Metal and soft reserve handles have advantages and disadvantages. You have to decide which is more appropriate for you. The easier you make a handle to grab, the easier it is to snag. The harder you make a handle to snag, the harder it is to grip. I figure, go with the design that is hardest to snag, but you can still get a solid grip on, whichever handle that may be for you. Remember, pillows for cutaway handles have worked for a long time and the cutaway handle is usually harder to pull than the reserve handle. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vt1977 0 #3 July 8, 2004 First thing to say – please spend some time with an instructor running over your emergency drills if you haven’t done so since you had your malfunction. Personally, I have chosen to go with a metal reserve handle rather than a pad – my reasons are as follows: 1. (Knock on wood!) I haven’t yet had to chop and I want the two handles to look and feel different. 2. I jump in the UK in winter and I’d prefer a handle that I can get a better grip on when I have very cold hands. 3. I don’t freefly. I don’t think there is really a right or wrong answer here – just personal preference. Vicki Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #4 July 8, 2004 I agree with Hooknswoop. Your call. I use a soft handle on the rig I use for AFF as I want less chance of it snaging or the student grabbing it. I use a D ring on the rig I use for wingsuit jumps - cos that hand is kinda full of Alti's and a GPS unit - and all I need is a thumb. If forced to choose one - I'd go with the D ring. Kinda tough to pull a pillow with a broken hand or something... tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflynick 0 #5 July 8, 2004 Food for thought.......... I was speaking to a Scottish jumper who told me that he once jumped and didn't realise how cold his hands were getting. Come pull time he couldn't grip anything. All that saved him was the fact that he could hook his thumb into his D-ring reserve handle and pull that. Think of a similar situation with a broken arm/hand/finger...... But as said.......easier to grip, easier to snag...... Also as said.......practice your drills regularly. Enjoy your Wings though!! Hobbes: "How come we play 'War' and not 'Peace'?" Calvin: "Too few role models." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #6 July 8, 2004 I agree with everything said by the posters above. After pulling 18 metal ripcord handles, I am too old a dog to change my ways. Early soft ripcord handles were too soft and difficult to grab with cold hands and winter gloves. The only soft handle I would trust is the Vector III, and it includes a huge chunk of 1 inch diameter steel pipe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #7 July 8, 2004 A couple posts by Bill Booth that won't answer the question for you, but are pretty informative about why the soft handle was invented in the first place for the cutaway handle... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=145540#145540 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=141603#141603 Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #8 July 8, 2004 I've also noticed that in photos of jumpers in freefall with soft handles, the handles are always out to the side - being moved around by the wind (see some of the pics of the arizona challenge in the latest skydiving magazine). Do the metal ones move about that much? I wouldn't think so but I dunno. I would rather have the thing where I last saw it, not floating around somewhere else. JumpScars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #9 July 8, 2004 at least one manufacturer will NOT give you a soft reserve handle. Also, considering what Bill Booth has said, I will stick with what I have - a D handle. My next rig will have one a low profile design. From the ground waiting to load, I have witnessed a low-time jumper kicking and screaming in freefall because he cut away and then could not find the reserve handle (not sure what kind it was) - then his cypres fired... rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #10 July 8, 2004 QuoteFrom the ground waiting to load, I have witnessed a low-time jumper kicking and screaming in freefall because he cut away and then could not find the reserve handle (not sure what kind it was) - then his cypres fired... How is that the handles fault? That could have happened with ANY reserve handle type. Also another reason why I'm in favor of the one hand on each handle cutaway method. Least I know I got em in my hands before I release my main. I've had a cutaway on each type of system, no noticable difference there for me on either system. I put my hand on each handle both times, and went through my procedures with no problem whatsoever. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #11 July 8, 2004 I didn't say it was the handles fault....picture this - spinning under a wound up highly loaded canopy, need two hands to cutaway, chest strap a little too loose, a double articulated rig and it shifts a bit, a baggy suit --- which handle would you prefer then? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #12 July 8, 2004 Honestly, while that's a shitty scenario I really don't want to be in, I'd still rather have that happen than my reserve deploy while my teammate has his foot in my cheststrap. Either scenario blows. Blue IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #13 July 8, 2004 QuoteI didn't say it was the handles fault....picture this - spinning under a wound up highly loaded canopy, need two hands to cutaway, chest strap a little too loose, a double articulated rig and it shifts a bit, a baggy suit --- which handle would you prefer then? I think you could be screwed then, since your cutaway handle is usually a pillow. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #14 July 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteI didn't say it was the handles fault....picture this - spinning under a wound up highly loaded canopy, need two hands to cutaway, chest strap a little too loose, a double articulated rig and it shifts a bit, a baggy suit --- which handle would you prefer then? I think you could be screwed then, since your cutaway handle is usually a pillow. Derek Yeah, in this situation I'd _definitely_ want a D-ring cutaway handle. As a separate reply to some posts, the link to the Bill Booth quotes on the choice of the pad for cutaway handle should not be optional reading. He prepares to say less and ends up saying more than most of our back-and-forth ranting. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #15 July 8, 2004 QuoteI didn't say it was the handles fault....picture this - spinning under a wound up highly loaded canopy, need two hands to cutaway, chest strap a little too loose, a double articulated rig and it shifts a bit, a baggy suit --- which handle would you prefer then? On my rig, I: * disconnect and flex riser ends every month * clean and lube cutaway cables with (precisely) food-grade silicone lubricant every month; wipe dry * have hard riser cutaway cable end inserts on my risers - just in case * am comfortable operating handles at any chest strap tightness on my rig * fit in the rig correctly; it was sized for me * discounted chest articulation because it could affect handle location without making rig that much more comfortable to me In the event I'm jumping someone else's rig that hasn't received proper three-ring / cutaway cable maintenance throughout its life, doesn't have the just-in-case riser inserts, and fits me imperfectly so the handles go all hither and dither when the fertilizer hits the prop, I don't think I'm going to have a choice about what kind of handle(s) are on it. But I guess if I had a strong preference about that, I could have avoided jumping that rig in the first place. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #16 July 8, 2004 QuoteYeah, in this situation I'd _definitely_ want a D-ring cutaway handle. Loop cutaway handles are another alternative.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 56 #17 July 8, 2004 Quote Loop cutaway handles are another alternative. Or metal D-ring cutaway handle - JumpShack offers them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #18 July 8, 2004 Some hard handle advantages: -Harder to "lose" if you're looking for it (won't blend in with your jumpsuit) -Less likely to get folded under your main lift web -Easier to pull if you are having other problems (like a broken hand) -Easier to find/pull with gloves on -Helps distinguish the two handles from each other; helpful for people like me who have mild dyslexia Some soft handle advantages: -Less likely to be pulled by accident -Better color coordination Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #19 July 9, 2004 QuoteI've also noticed that in photos of jumpers in freefall with soft handles, the handles are always out to the side - being moved around by the wind (see some of the pics of the arizona challenge in the latest skydiving magazine). Do the metal ones move about that much? I wouldn't think so but I dunno. I would rather have the thing where I last saw it, not floating around somewhere else. Jump >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The better soft ripcord handles contain plastic or metal stiffeners that make them lay flat against your chest. Also remember that many "soft" ripcord handles are not RSL-compatible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #20 July 9, 2004 I had a soft cutaway handle tuck under once..The problem was I needed it...And had to take my glove off to get it. If it had been my reserve handle that had tucked under...I would be dead now. The only reason that I can see for a soft handle is so that it is harder to snag....OK. That is a valid concern. I can see several advantages to the metal ring. Easier to find Eaiser to grab Can be grabbed with just a thumb or even pulled by just hooking it with a few fingers. Can be grabbed with either hand very easily. For me it's a simple choice. I don't freefly so there is a very small chance of getting the handle pulled...And BTW a buddy of mine died when a chain of events was started by his soft cutaway handle was accidently pulled...so it can happen with a soft handle also. I have, and will keep the metal D-ring."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
