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pimpin8ez

???Can I FF my new (old) Talon???

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I just bought my first rig, which is an old Talon. I believe the DOM is '88. The rig was owned by a rigger, was gently used, and is in excellent condition. It is off getting a cypres put in, and a reserve repack done right now.

BUT...Is it FF friendly??? If not, can it be modified to be FF friendly? I plan on asking the previous owner and others at the DZ these questions, but I would appreciate any oppinions out there!

I'll really be dissapointed if I can't make this rig work for what I want to do.


"I poop too much...and then I get tired." -Beavis

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>>I'll really be dissapointed if I can't make this rig work for what I want to do. <<

In the future, I would recommend you perform the following steps in the following order when making major purchases:

1. Decide what you want to use it for.
2. Get equipment appropriate to that use.

Brent

----------------------------------
www.jumpelvis.com

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You *can* FF in anything, although its just not smart to in the majority of older rigs out there. Not smart as in potental premies, which can do a lot of bad things ranging from death, death of a jump buddy and you or possibly just a sore neck.

Have your rigger look at it and explain if it is or isn't FF safe and explain why.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Okay!

I just spoke with the master rigger who has my rig right now. Apparently, there are no riser covers or tuck tabs on the system right now, making FF questionable. BUT, he is going to install the necessary modifications to make it safe.

Whew!...I think I got a little lucky.


"I poop too much...and then I get tired." -Beavis

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No riser covers? That must be a misunderstanding.

Safe?... maybe.

Old Talons are generally large. The Main has to be large enough to ensure the closing loop is tight. Other wise the loop is about 1/2 inch long and relying on only the width of the flaps grommets to keep the thing closed. It's not very tolerant of too small of a main.

The Reserve cover flap is Velcro so it will need to be held closed with a rubber band.

The riser covers are probably velcro closed. Tabs can be added but the original Tab design wasn't adequate. If additional velcro is added, you'll get by ... temporarily.

You may have some luck with it because the Riser covers are short. There isn't a large amount of exposed riser. However, if the covers blow open, risers and toggles may be free to properly malfunction your main. Been there done that and seen it plenty on other rigs with longer riser covers.

Bridle will be exposed so ensure there is a cover flap installed or brand new velcro to stick it down. Velcor wears out quick so it's not really a good option.

Good luck
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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If not, can it be modified to be FF friendly?



Hi, I used an original Talon (1989) for headup flying for two years with no ill results. Get your rigger to contact Sandy Reid at Rigging Innovations (Talon manufacturers) and ask about putting the Voodoo style tuck tabs on the reserve flap. He did it for mine when I was over in Eloy, and it worked a treat :))
---
Swoopert, CS-Aiiiiiii!
Piccies

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If not, can it be modified to be FF friendly?


Properly maintaining all the velcro on your rig will keep it safe for head-up flying, but IMNSHO Stay off your Head! As mentioned above, open riser covers can be nasty!
Quote



Thanks for all the great advice!!! Can you explain for me why head down could still be dangerous even with these mods?



"I poop too much...and then I get tired." -Beavis

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Can you explain for me why head down could still be dangerous even with these mods?



Why yes!

For an old style talon, "the double teflon pins for your main pin, a la tandem kit", sounds like a good Idea. The main container needs to be filled out completely to maintain enough pin tension. The deflon pins will keep it shut even if the main is a bit smaller than it should be.

Riser covers: Velcro Peels. Properly maintained velcro peels. So, get on your head, the wind will eventually if not immeadiatly, push the riser covers open exposing the risers and toggles.

Parachutes do funny things on deployment when a toggle escapes into the air stream. Not only is the toggle a hazzard because it's free to smack you in the head, snag a camera ... etc... the brake on that side is no longer set. People get flung into line twists sometimes when one toggle is unstowed.

I've chopped one canopy because a toggle escaped and flung me into unrecoverable line twists. Back on my very first cutaway, the toggle escaped and very oddly went through the lines above, and below the slider. To counter steer, I had to hold the left toggle down to my shoulder. That was too much for me to deal with by my hard deck so I gave up and cutaway.

(I've never had a malfunction while jumping my old Talon. I used it for around 500 ish jumps. It went through 3 more owners afterwards including my brother)
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One Mod that I did for my old talon was to 2 inch velcro onto a length of type 12. Then sew it onto the riser covers increasing the amount of velcro. You have to taper the additional velcro piece other wish the riser will destroy it pretty rapidly.

It works but it's temporary. As stated earlier, the riser covers are short. They stay shut a little better than other velcro closed riser covers. It's not great but it will get you by for a short time as you get some jumps under your belt and prepare to upgrade to a new style rig.

One major key to success is to keep every thing closed until you want it open. Old style talons are practically bullet proof for durability but when it was designed, no one thought about people flying at 200 mph straight down.

Good luck!
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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I did hundreds of FF jumps on an original Talon ( I still have the rig though its a secondary one now ).

I kept the velcro maintained, used an elastic on the reserve to keep the flap shut, had it converted to BOC and flew HD with the chest strap tight.

The biggest scare was during a Headdown dive, the chest strap must have worked a bit loose and I had both shoulder straps slip down to my elbows ... Yoikes .. end of dive, transit to sit and get may gear back on properly

You can use it to Freefly but as everyone will tell you a more modern rig will be safer however I would'nt see a talon properly setup as a FF deathtrap.

PtL

No, Not without incident

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The biggest scare was during a Headdown dive, the chest strap must have worked a bit loose and I had both shoulder straps slip down to my elbows ... Yoikes .. end of dive, transit to sit and get may gear back on properly



You were head down, your harness slipped off your shoulders and was caught on your elbows? Dude, I got a cold chill just reading that!

Everyone will tell you a more modern freefly friendly rig will be safer because it is true. Why compromise? Use the right tool for the right job.

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I did hundreds of FF jumps on an original Talon ( I still have the rig though its a secondary one now ).

I kept the velcro maintained, used an elastic on the reserve to keep the flap shut, had it converted to BOC and flew HD with the chest strap tight.

The biggest scare was during a Headdown dive, the chest strap must have worked a bit loose and I had both shoulder straps slip down to my elbows ... Yoikes .. end of dive, transit to sit and get may gear back on properly

You can use it to Freefly but as everyone will tell you a more modern rig will be safer however I would'nt see a talon properly setup as a FF deathtrap.

PtL



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That is a case where a thin Type 8 chest strap is too loose in the buckle. Some people wrap an extra black elastic strap keeper around the buckle to prevent slippage.
I sewed an extra layer of type 8 webbing on the chest strap of my Talon 2 to "bulk out" the buckle and prevent slippage.
Another solution is the double layer of Type 17 used by many manufacturers.

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Hey all,
I just got the rig back this weekend from the rigger. This guy is an master rigger and also has more than 6000 jumps. He also owns an original Talon himself and does FF in it...he says I should have nothing to worry about, although tuck tabs and more velcro in the future isn't a bad idea..............


"I poop too much...and then I get tired." -Beavis

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I did hundreds of FF jumps on an original Talon ( I still have the rig though its a secondary one now ).

I kept the velcro maintained, used an elastic on the reserve to keep the flap shut, had it converted to BOC and flew HD with the chest strap tight.

The biggest scare was during a Headdown dive, the chest strap must have worked a bit loose and I had both shoulder straps slip down to my elbows ... Yoikes .. end of dive, transit to sit and get may gear back on properly

You can use it to Freefly but as everyone will tell you a more modern rig will be safer however I would'nt see a talon properly setup as a FF deathtrap.

PtL



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That is a case where a thin Type 8 chest strap is too loose in the buckle.



No, I had the wide chest strap with two elastics, its just that if I tightened the strap comfortably to where the shoulder straps were perpendicular to my shoulders, the rig could slowly work itself down off my shoulders.

As a rule, I would cinch the chest strap real tight to where the shoulder straps bent in like an hour glass shape(nowadays they're cut into that shape).

It only ever happened once, that I left it loose enough for it to work itself down.

..And once was enough

P.t.L

No, Not without incident

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