Spectre 170 with PD 160 reserve

[guerramb 0]

I have noticed that this seems to be a popular main/reserve configuration but I just want to make sure that it is appropriate for me before I purchase my new rig this summer.

Currently, I have about 90 jumps, 60 of which have been on my Sabre2 190. I have landed the Sabre2 in a variety of conditions and have always had a stand up landing. I am now going to start working on Bill von's checklist to make sure that I can safely perform all of the manuevers before I downsize in a couple of months.

I am sure that I will be ready to downsize to the Spectre 170 by late May/early June (when my new rig gets here), but my concern is with the PD 160 reserve. I know that the PIA chart says that the PD 160 is 174 square feet when measured by their method, but I want to make sure that I am not making a mistake by getting a 160 reserve. I plan on making a few demo jumps on the 160 before I make my final decision (gotta love the PD demo program) but outside input never hurts. Let me know what you think.

Marcos

[jejejelle 0]

pd 160 is a very nice canopy... mine is some sort of yellow... it flies great. landings are great. had to land it down wind and was no problem

edit: in combination with a sabre170 ,
ps it is the only reserve i have jumped so far , jump 90 was my 2nd ride

[nacmacfeegle 0]

To give complete advice people may need to know your wing loading, currency, and maybe even your DZs altitude.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[wonko 0]

No worries,

btw, spectre is a nice choice - mastering 7-cell landings will give a good preparation for reserve rides ;-)

villem
life is what you make it to be
http://www.youtube.com/villu357
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[chuckbrown 0]

My .02 would be not to go below a 1:1 wingloading on the reserve until you get more experience, especially on a 7 cell (which has a steeper glide path than a 9 cell). Everybody I know who has landed a reserve loaded higher than 1:1 got pounded, mainly because they were used to the flare of a ZP canopy while reserves are made of F-111. One buddy busted his ankle. Of course if you're getting experience jumping the PD160R and can land it, go for it.

[AggieDave 6]

Have you talked to the experienced folks/instructors at your DZ? Talk to Jeff (Brains) and Robert and Brian, I'm sure they've seen you land and can give you good advice.

If Allen Flynn is still coming around, get him to watch you land as well, he can help you out as well.

In the end, no matter what folks tell you here, the experienced jumpers and instructors around you that know you and watch you land are the ones you should really listen to.

Although, they may tell you something you don't like, such as "you're not ready for that." If that's the case, suck it up and don't downsize, since all they're trying to do is keep you from getter hurt. Especially since all of us have seen it happen and have lost friends in this sport from canopy stuff.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[CanuckInUSA 0]

If you are concerned about having compatable canopy sizes, then you shouldn't worry. I have a similar setup using a Crossfire2 139 and a Spectre 150 both in rigs with PD143R reserve canopies.

But if you are more concerned with whether or not you can safely land that PD160R in the worst possible conditions (landing downwind in a tight area being knocked out or injured to the point where you can not flare), then that is a whole different can of worms.

From my limited real reserve ride + demo reserve ride experiences (only three jumps using a demo reserve), the reserve canopy will come in a lot steeper than even your 7 cell Spectre will and the flare will be different. To date I have stood up my four reserve canopy jumps, but what would happen to me if I couldn't flare? Hmmm ... I don't even want to think about it.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[guerramb 0]

My exit weight is about 190-195 pounds and my dropzone is pretty close to sea level (central Texas). I am not as current as I would like to be right now (5-10 jumps per month since December), but that will quickly change once this semester's finals are over (at least a month before I downsize).

Dave, I will definitely be talking to Allen and Jeff about this before I make any decisions, but since I won't be able to get to the DZ before Friday I thought I would get some input from here first.

[payback462 0]

Quote

Everybody I know who has landed a reserve loaded higher than 1:1 got pounded, mainly because they were used to the flare of a ZP canopy while reserves are made of F-111

ive landed my 160 loaded at 1.5:1 and a 176 loaded at 1.36:1 and never got pounded. ive seen others land PD reserves at above 1.8:1 and they had no problem landing them
not to say that its a good idea to heavily load a reserve, but just stating that it can be done, with experience.

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

ive landed my 160 loaded at 1.5:1 and a 176 loaded at 1.36:1 and never got pounded.

It would be nice to know what your experience level is. Jumping a reserve loaded that high is a little risky.
guerramb has 90 jumps and would be loading a 160 to about 1.34:1. Just a bit high for my liking.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[skybytch 259]

Quote

guerramb has 90 jumps and would be loading a 160 to about 1.34:1.

Actually he said his exit weight is 190-195; at that he'd be loading a 160 at a bit less than 1.2. Still higher than I'd advise someone with 90 jumps who I haven't seen land a parachute to go for but not out of the question.

I think getting a 160R demo from PD and jumping it a least a few times is the hot tip. Jump it in perfect conditions (ie middle of the day, light winds, hop and pop, perfect spot) first; if that goes okay then jump it in not-so-perfect conditions (ie sunset load, no wind). Really fly it while you're under it too; I think you'll be surprised at how well it performs considering it's an "F111 seven cell."

On at least one jump put a target out in the landing area if your dz doesn't have a pea pit. Make it a pretty small target too - think the size of a backyard. If you can't put it into that area in good conditions you may want to consider getting a 176R instead... I'm big on being sure that you can put your reserve down safely even in a worst case scenario, and landing in an area the size of someone's backyard is about as bad as I can imagine it getting.

[mjosparky 3]

I read it twice and still got it wrong. My bad.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[guerramb 0]

My high wingloading under a PD "160" is also one of the things that I was concerned with, which is why I mentioned the PIA measurement of the PD 160 reserve. According to the PIA measurement, the PD 160 is 174 square feet when compared with other canopies and this is a much more reasonable wingloading for my experience level.

There is no doubt that my 190 lb. exit weight with a 160 reserve, wingloading = 1.19, is too high for my comfort. But with the PIA measurement of 174, my wingloading would be 1.09 which is much more reasonable for my experience.

Thanks to all that have replied thus far, and please keep your thoughts coming.

[mnischalke 0]

Call me a reserve Nazi, but I hear a lot of talk about low-timers downsizing their mains too soon, but reserves somehow are okay to downsize.

I have heard a lot of your garden-variety Canopy Nazi's (not pointing to any in particular) saying that you should be able to land your main in somebody's backyard, et al, but somehow a reserve choice is given little more than a few words of caution. In fact, a reserve is a totally different animal and needs to be treated with an even higher level forethought and attentiveness. After all, it's probably the only thing you got left keeping you from cratering.

Only one person in this thread has mentioned the real danger of a small f1-11 7-cell reserve: Landing unconscious.

So, here's my question, as a self-appointed Reserve Nazi: Do you feel comfortable having your canopy-of-choice land your unconscious ass in someone's backyard/pool/barb-wire fence/tree/rock garden/driveway (or wherever else it happens to drift)?

Seeing 20/20 and all now, I think one of the biggest potential mistakes I ever made in skydiving was stuffing a Raven-1 (loaded @ 1.25) in my first rig with my whopping total number of jumps at 10.

Granted, my F1-11 7-cell landing experience is currently limited to that of my 265sf Fox BASE canopy (@ .75:1), but I can tell you that flying and flaring canopies of these designs and fabrics are totally different than ZP 7- or 9-cell canopies.

The sad thing is that only recently have container/harness manufacturers realized that making bigger reserve containers might not be such a bad idea.

Ugh...

anyway, so how do you feel about that 160 landing you?

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[Snowflake 0]

My awnser.....call PD and demo the reserve, it's the only way to be sure. Thats the same setup as my first rig(hmmmmm). One other question you might ask yourself is how much are you going to be jumping in the next year if it's less then 100 I'd think about going bigger

[payback462 0]

Quote

It would be nice to know what your experience level is. Jumping a reserve loaded that high is a little risky.
guerramb has 90 jumps and would be loading a 160 to about 1.34:1. Just a bit high for my liking.
Sparky

i have around 350 jumps, i definetaly agree that, yes its quite high (didnt weigh this much when i bought it) and NOBODY shoud be under a reserve loaded at 1.34 at 90 jumps, i was just stating that a reserve COULD be landed above 1:1 without pounding in, With Experience
sorry i didnt make my point clear

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

Quote

It would be nice to know what your experience level is. Jumping a reserve loaded that high is a little risky.
guerramb has 90 jumps and would be loading a 160 to about 1.34:1. Just a bit high for my liking.
Sparky

i have around 350 jumps, i definetaly agree that, yes its quite high (didnt weigh this much when i bought it) and NOBODY shoud be under a reserve loaded at 1.34 at 90 jumps, i was just stating that a reserve COULD be landed above 1:1 without pounding in, With Experience
sorry i didnt make my point clear

No sorry needed. Hell I miss read the damn thing any way. It would be just over 1.2:1, which is a little high.
And I sure didn't weigh this much when I bought my last reserve, can't understand what happened.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[The111 0]

Just my own experience:

My exit weight is about the same (190 lb) and I jump the canopies in question. I landed the PDR 160 @ 1.18psf on jump 50 and 210, stood it up on 50 and dropped a knee on 210 only because I was very weak from the hard reserve opening. It does flare quite a bit different than the Spectre and I did quite a few practice flares both times I had it over my head.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[Brains 2]

Talk to me Saturday, i will be there all day.
Edit: Oops, as someone pointed out, i don't have any ratings and i should not give advice. look for me and i will point you in the right direction.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Edit: Oops, as someone pointed out, i don't have any ratings and i should not give advice

WTF? You're a USPA Coach, they're supposed to work with their students on canopy stuff, AND you're a TM, sure you're not an AFF, but you know whats going on. Even if you didn't have any ratings, you're a heads up skydiver that's very safety concious. You're VERY qualified to give advice! Fuck the skygods that think since you don't have 3,000+ skydives you don't know what you're doing!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[damion75 0]

Quote

The sad thing is that only recently have container/harness manufacturers realized that making bigger reserve containers might not be such a bad idea.

I seem to remember reading that the Wings container was intentionally designed to contain a bigger reserve than main? Can anyone confirm / deny this? It is only a vague memory and I could be wrong.

Of course I am a really bad example since my Wings has the exact same setup as the thread title!

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.