Jumpshack and MIKE FORSYTHE Freakin ROCK!!!!

[freeflir29 0]

So......I'm hanging out at the Mardi Gras Boogie some weeks ago and talking with Mike from Jumpshack. I mention that my risers are getting worn out and therefor I keep having brake fires on opening. I have velcroless risers and the pockets were begining to come apart so the toggles tended to pop out during openings. He says "How long are they?" I have no idea so I popped open my container and he measured them. All he says is......."I'll have them to you in a couple weeks." I finally got a chance to go get them from my apartment complex office where they have been for several days. Just pulled them out and they are beautiful!!! SWEET design with nice keepers and even SNAPS to make sure they stay put! I can see that brake fires are a thing of the past with these risers! I can only highly reccomend that if you need skydiving gear.......Email Mike at [email protected] He's a hell of a nice guy, a VERY experienced skydiver, Very experienced and talented rigger, he'll give you the lowest prices in the industry, plus he makes some of the FINEST "Rum Runners" on the planet! Look him up......it'll be worth your time!

[diablopilot 2]

I have had very poor experiences with snaps on risers as have friends and customers. Mind taking a picture of the design?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[freeflir29 0]

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Mind taking a picture of the design?

Not a problem.........give me a few minutes to figure out how......

[AggieDave 6]

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I have had very poor experiences with snaps on risers as have friends and customers.

What are those experiences?

My only experience with snaps on risers are on tandems and they seem to work really well in that application.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[hookitt 0]

Tandems also use type 7 Risers with an entirely different set of toggles and brake setting so it's kindof a poor comparison.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[davelepka 4]

Ohhhh, snaps! Lets put them on riser covers too. That'll work good.

Seriously, wouldn't you have to blow (another) big hole in the center of your riser to seat a snap?

I know, I know, until we see a picture, blah blah blah

[NightJumper 0]

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Seriously, wouldn't you have to blow (another) big hole in the center of your riser to seat a snap?

Not if you do it right. The snaps are attached to webbing and then sewn to the riser.

[davelepka 4]

***The snaps are attached to webbing and then sewn to the riser
=================================

That does solve the issue I had with the idea.

What about the 'keep it simple' principal? Wouldn't propery spaced and properly maintained keepers work just as well? I have way too many jumps on my current risers without any keeper replacement or premature toggle release.

[AggieDave 6]

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Tandems also use type 7 Risers with an entirely different set of toggles and brake setting so it's kindof a poor comparison.

Right, I understand that, that's why I said "in that application" and was asking about them on sport rigs.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Tink1717 2]

Yeah, Mike is a very cool guy. I was just at Jump Shack last week. Mike went wqay out of his way to show me, a very rookie rigger, the ins and outs of the Racer. He took the better part of a whole day to do this, hooked me up with a new tool they had been developing and gave me all the copies of the packing instructions. He did all this with only one days notice. Very cool.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[LouDiamond 1]

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Lets put them on riser covers too. That'll work good

You're right, it does work good on riser covers. The Military MTX series has been using snaps on riser covers for years.

The snap toggles on the risers mentioned work exceptionaly well, I use them myself and think they are a brilliant idea especially for birdman flights. A brake fire almost killed a good friend of mine(SkymonkeyOne) on a birdman jump, had he had snap toggles I don't think it would ever escalated into a cutaway. IMO, they are a great thing to have for any type of jumping.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[BlueSBDeath 2]

The rigger who put snaps on my Racer risers was able to open the riser weave, insert the snap with post, and set as normal. No cut, or decrease in riser integrity!!

Arvel

BSBD...........Its all about Respect,

USPA#-7062, FB-2197, Outlaw 499

[RMURRAY 1]

that is not the way the JumpShack ones work. they don't go through the riser. only thing is I'd prefer some velcro at the bottom instead of the elastic keeper - but that is just me.

and yes, service at JS is fast and very good.

rm

[Miami 0]

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Mind taking a picture of the design?

Here are a few.

Miami

[diablopilot 2]

Thanks for that. I was reserving my comments till I saw a picture.

The design pictured looks well thought out compared to the other "snap" designs I've seen, however I'm still not convinced.

I don't like snaps on risers because:

1) They are very "directional" on how they release.

2) They are one more piece of hardware that is not needed.

3) They are a snag factor.

4) They are suseptible to damage.

IMO The single nicest riser design on the market right now is KellyF's from VSE. Well thought out and simple as all heck.....

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Miami 0]

Not arguing with you because I respect everyone's opinions, but I thought I might try to sway you to like them...

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1) They are very "directional" on how they release.

I actually found as I was taking the above pictures that they are a pain in the ass to get to release any other way than pulling down on them with the toggle. This is a good thing though, because you don't want them to release any other time than when you are pulling down on your toggle. After hundreds of jumps on these risers I have never had a problem with the snaps, and they cause no extra pressure or tension when unstowing the brakes...so little in fact you really don't even know they are there.

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2) They are one more piece of hardware that is not needed.

If it helps prevent malfunctions I believe it is needed. How many cutaways have various skydivers had because they had a toggle come unstowed on opening?

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3) They are a snag factor.

Very slight snag factor IMHO. When the toggle is stowed the only thing extra that would be a snag factor is the concave (or is that convex...I always mix those up) top of a very snugly set button.

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4) They are susceptible to damage.

As is everything on every rig...but again I think that is worthwhile for the protection it gives against a premature brake release. And it is hard to tell in the photos the condition of my snaps, but after a couple hundred jumps they are still basically new.


Hope this helps...

Miami

[f1shlips 2]

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hooked me up with a new tool they had been developing

Got a pic or description of it?

--
drop zone (drop'zone) n. An incestuous sesspool of broken people. -- Attributed to a whuffo girlfriend.

[FeFe 0]

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1) They are very "directional" on how they release
2) They are one more piece of hardware that is not needed.
3) They are a snag factor.
4) They are suseptible to damage.

Misconception.
I have 1300+ jumps on snap risers. Not a single brake misfire.
Yes there are other designs. You don't have to like this one, but it does the job, and does it pretty good.

[Tink1717 2]

I'll post a pic of it soon.
I'll describe it as a tool for holding open the velcro on the backpad and simultaneously threading the cypress cutters. Pretty nifty. They'll send you one if you ask.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[AndyMan 7]

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1) They are very "directional" on how they release.
2) They are one more piece of hardware that is not needed.
3) They are a snag factor.
4) They are suseptible to damage.

I would add to that:

5) Risers stretch during a hard opening. Since the snaps don't move, they'll be suseptible to prematurely releasing in a hard opening.

I have no doubt that they've worked well for a lot of people. That said, the worst designs out there also "work well" for a lot of people. I prefer good designs, and this doesn't appear to be a "good design".

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[NightJumper 0]

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Since the snaps don't move, they'll be susceptible to prematurely releasing in a hard opening.

In two years there have not been any reports of this occurring, so what are you basing this on since there is nothing pulling against the snap until the toggle is pulled down? And even if the keeper at the bottom held the toggle, the amount of stretch involved to unsnap the toggle would be catastrophic since they were tested to the failure strength of the webbing on the dyno.

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I have no doubt that they've worked well for a lot of people. That said, the worst designs out there also "work well" for a lot of people. I prefer good designs, and this doesn't appear to be a "good design".

Your right, it is not a "good design" it is a great design that several manufactures have adopted with great success and customer satisfaction.

[Miami 0]

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[5) Risers stretch during a hard opening. Since the snaps don't move, they'll be suseptible to prematurely releasing in a hard opening.

I really doubt they would stretch that much without breaking.

If you look at the first pic above you can see that the snap is mounted about an inch from the cat eye, and the length of the toggle from the grommet to the top tip is about and inch and a half to two inches. Which means the inch of riser webbing between the snap and the cat eye would have to stretch almost three times it's size in order to have a snap cause a premature brake release.

Hope this helps...

Miami

[AndyMan 7]

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I really doubt they would stretch that much without breaking.

Bill Booth says that RWS tests show the risers will stretch almost a full inch during a hard deployment. You can also see in their designs how the system is designed to take such a case.

This is one of the reasons I retrofit my Javelin risers with RWS. I can clearly see a number of reasons why those are simply the best risers available.

Edit to say: I'm still a bit uncertain from the pics posted as to how the stretch will affect the toggle.

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Miami 0]

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Bill Booth says that RWS tests show the risers will stretch almost a full inch during a hard deployment.

I bet they do, but if you read my last post or looked at the pics I posted you would understand that in order for there to be enough stretch for the snap to cause a problem a one inch section of riser would have to stretch almost 3 times it's length in order to cause a premature release.

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This is one of the reasons I retrofit my Javelin risers with RWS. I can clearly see a number of reasons why those are simply the best risers available.

I can not make the same statement looking at these. They are clearly inferior for the reasons cited above.

I'm glad you like the RWS risers. I jump a Vector at work, and agree with you that they are a good design. I just like the Racer risers better. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I still have yet to see a valid reason why the Racer risers are not an excellent design.

Miami

[Unstable 8]

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You're right, it does work good on riser covers. The Military MTX series has been using snaps on riser covers for years.

Correct me if I'm Wrong, this was before My time as a skydiver, but didn't the Dolphin with Snaps earn a bad rep for always having riser covers open in Freefall??

=========Shaun ==========