It's hard to find a mentor...

[JaapSuter 0]

I keep hearing horror stories from people that have a hard time finding a mentor in their area. Apparently their local scene consists of a bunch of old arrogant stuck-ups who have been in BASE so long that beginners are not worthy of their presence.

I call bullshit; total and utter bullshit. If there are active jumpers in your neighbourhood, you will be able to find a mentor; no problem.

The real problem is your own attitude. This is not directed at anyone in particular, but I've heard similar versions of this story at different locations...

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Jumper X really wants to get into BASE. He has 300 skydives, all but one of them dedicated to freeflying. He started flying a crossbraced swoop canopy when he had only 50 jumps and only because of sheer luck is he still alive. At dropzone parties he's the loud obnoxious drunk and he's always selling overpriced pot. Last week his entire back was roadrashed open because of a motorcycle incident in which he was only wearing a t-shirt.

Jumper Y really wants to get into BASE. He has 300 skydives. He's always been a conservative canopy pilot, practicing accuracy and aiming for the bowl rather than swooping. He's been jumping seven cells for some time, has done some CRW jumps and recently started flying a used BASE canopy he picked up through the classifieds. He's scheduled to do a first jump course with a reputable manufacturer in the next two months.

Now both jumper X and Y approach the local jumper scene and ask if they can groundcrew. Who is gonna go you think? Exactly! Meanwhile, jumper X is going to go to the forums instead and bitch that the local BASE scene is so hard to get into.

Whatever...

We're protective of our sport because we don't like it when people get hurt. It hurts the injured, it hurts their families, it hurts us, and it hurts the sport as a whole. But we love meeting excited beginners that show common sense, solid judgement and good preparation. Sharing the passion is a huge part of our sport and we need new blood in the sport to share it with.

Here's an offer I'll throw out to all the prospective jumpers in North America. If there is an active jumping scene in your neighbourhood, you've done thirty accuracy skydives using your own BASE canopy at your local dropzone, taken a first aid course, and you still can't find somebody to groundcrew for....

Drop me an email; I'll pay for your airfare to my city, take you on as groundcrew for several days and then pay for airfare to the Perrine where I'll teach you all I know about BASE over several days. After that, I'll makes sure you find a mentor.

Offer expires at the end of 2006 or when the first qualiying person emails me.

P.S. I'm well aware there are several incredibly experienced and good BASE jumpers that started out as jumper X and still act like one.

[lifewithoutanet 0]

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I keep hearing horror stories from people that have a hard time finding a mentor in their area. Apparently their local scene consists of a bunch of old arrogant stuck-ups who have been in BASE so long that beginners are not worthy of their presence.

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We're protective of our sport because we don't like it when people get hurt. It hurts the injured, it hurts their families, it hurts us, and it hurts the sport as a whole. But we love meeting excited beginners that show common sense, solid judgement and good preparation. Sharing the passion is a huge part of our sport and we need new blood in the sport to share it with.

Good statement, Jaap. Have fun answering all those PMs after that offer of yours.

My personal perspective is that experienced (and let's even throw in 'active') locals' hesitation isn't just due to the possibility of injuries to a jumper or our lifestyle.

BASE is expanding at a rapid pace. If you're one of those experienced/active jumpers in an area and you've got a handful of people coming at you for access to more sites and an 'in' to the local scene, what are you to do?

If you're not careful with the influx of new blood, no one will have anything left to jump. So, that jumper who's "pushing/shunning" you away might not be the self-righteous asshole you think is wrapped in a blanket of his/her own elitist ego. They might be trying to preserve a little longer what's been handed down from the people who started before them.

-C.

[JaapSuter 0]

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If you're not careful with the influx of new blood, no one will have anything left to jump.

There really aren't that many areas where there are more jumpers than the number of objects can accomodate. It's a myth. Take your local area for example. It does seem crowded, doesn't it?

Yet, I think if some of the existing experienced jumpers would follow established protocol when jumping a certain B, that object could accomodate more jumpers.

Yet, I think if some of the existing experienced jumpers would spend more energy on opening new objects instead of jump-whoring the same AB all the time, that area could accomodate more jumpers.

Sorry, I'm not trying to take a stab at you here, but recent incidents are ironic in this light.

I'll admit that I live in a luxurious area with only three active jumpers and very little interest from the skydiving influx. But you'll have a hard time convincing me a certain area is crowded. Better management can ease the pain a lot.

[lifewithoutanet 0]

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Yet, I think if some of the existing experienced jumpers would spend more energy on opening new objects instead of jump-whoring the same AB all the time, that area could accomodate more jumpers.

Ouch. That stings, but the truth hurts. Challenge accepted and what timing: I think you'll find some surprises the next time you visit. You can hold me to that.

Things do seem to be getting a little crowded around here, but my statement was meant in general...not specific to this area. "Better management" could include pacing the activity in an area. My point was more that the active locals may have motives rooted in that, rather than selfishness.

-C.

[JaapSuter 0]

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Challenge accepted and what timing: I think you'll find some surprises the next time you visit. You can hold me to that.

Sweet bro, sweet! I might have some surprise wrapped up in a ribbon when you come visit here.

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Things do seem to be getting a little crowded around here, but my statement was meant in general...not specific to this area. "Better management" could include pacing the activity in an area. My point was more that the active locals may have motives rooted in that, rather than selfishness.

Yeah, that's a good observation.

[outrager 6]

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Drop me an email; I'll pay for your airfare to my city, take you on as groundcrew for several days and then pay for airfare to the Perrine where I'll teach you all I know about BASE over several days. After that, I'll makes sure you find a mentor.

Sweet! I will take you up on this offer. Is it coach or business?

bsbd!

Yuri.

[JaapSuter 0]

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Sweet! I will take you up on this offer. Is it coach or business?

For you? Business baby, all the way. But you'll have to bring the goods...

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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"Better management" could include pacing the activity in an area.

When it comes to the less than legal jumps, pacing on a site appears to be of extreme importance. You know there was this other geographical region that we both know about which had it's share of old timers and newbies and was being jumped a lot but the newbies. So much so that the old timers decided to curtail their activities because they felt the newer jumpers were making things too hot. Now were the older times being assholes for not mentoring the newbies or were the newbies too egar? Some of the newbies survived and went on to become not so newbies to the world of BASE, but one or two of these newbies went on to getting hurt and hopefully lessons were learned by more than just the injured.

Not that I would know what BASE was like before 911 (because guys like myself, you, Jaap, Abbe, etc, etc, etc are all still pretty green), but since that imfamous day, our sport has not been an easy sport to do (at least at the less than legal sites). I prefer jumping legal sites because I like to jump not worrying about getting busted and losing my gear. But legal sites are not easy to come by and the not so legal sites can be fun jumps as well.

I may or may not be in the minority here in thinking what I'm about to say, but BASE jumpers complain that there is too much drama in the skydiving community (and there is drama there for sure). But all I see lately around here is drama in itself. So-and-so doesn't like whom-do-you-call-him because ... so-and-so is an egar newbie while whom-do-you-call-him is the old timer not willing to mentor so-and-so. I think it's great when someone becomes passionate about a certain activity, but BASE doesn't define who I am. BASE is something that I do for ... shits and giggles? ... I don't know ... all I know is that I'm on a high after certain BASE jumps are made, but making these jumps are still scary as shit on a pogo stick and it's not always easy to be standing there at the exit point asking yourself why you're there. I would love to open up some new sites (and may just do that as I become older and wiser in this sport). But I would also like to not fuck myself up while BASE jumping.

I don't know ... except that only one of my two rigs is packed right now.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[rpersi 0]

I think we are also experiencing too many scenarios where the jumper wanting to get into BASE has barely a hundred skydives, below average canopy skills, and not the right attitude (i.e. reluctance to ground crew, burning objects). People are less patient today and want instant rewards without having to pay the "dues" or follow the progression suggested by others.

[JaapSuter 0]

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I think we are also experiencing too many scenarios where the jumper wanting to get into BASE has barely a hundred skydives, below average canopy skills, and not the right attitude (i.e. reluctance to ground crew, burning objects). People are less patient today and want instant rewards without having to pay the "dues" or follow the progression suggested by others.

Exactly! The problem is not with potential mentors, it's with potential students. Do things right, and you'll easily find a mentor.

[TomAiello 25]

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The problem is not with potential mentors, it's with potential students. Do things right, and you'll easily find a mentor.

I think you may be oversimplifying. There is definitely a shortage of qualified, available, and willing mentors. Mentoring someone, in the real, old fashioned sense, is incredibly demanding, and a huge responsibility. It can easily mean guiding someone through more than a hundred jumps, over a span of time ranging upwards of a year.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[JaapSuter 0]

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I think you may be oversimplifying. There is definitely a shortage of qualified, available, and willing mentors. Mentoring someone, in the real, old fashioned sense, is incredibly demanding, and a huge responsibility. It can easily mean guiding someone through more than a hundred jumps, over a span of time ranging upwards of a year.

The need for mentors in the real, old fashioned sense, is diminishing with the advent of more legal objects, more relatively easy objects, more information dissemination (through the internet, and through the growth of the sport itself) and the better quality of FJCs available today.

Today's needs are very different.

[TomAiello 25]

Jaap, these comments are based on my observations and experience with a broad range of jumpers. They are not intended to apply to you personally. I think that you have developed a good range of skills, and that you are developing your skills far more effectively than the vast majority of jumpers in your "generation."

As an aside, I think that your personal path, which is highly atypical, may color the way that you views these issues. I think that the average jumper has a far less methodical learning approach than you.

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The need for mentors in the real, old fashioned sense, is diminishing...

I disagree. I have observed the average skill level of jumpers in the sport dropping dramatically. While we still think of the same X number of jumps jumper as a "grown up" BASE jumper, the truth is that a guy with X jumps today has far less developed skills than a guy with X jumps 5 or 10 years ago. In fact, I'd speculate that the root cause of this drop in average skill level is inextricably linked to some of the things you point out (easy availability of safe FJC's, more wide spread knowledge of legal sites, ease of pounding out a bunch of jumps in a short time).

I think that traditional mentoring produces jumpers with a much higher average level of skill and knowledge, and that an expansion of traditional mentoring could really help to boost the average skill level of jumpers today, and especially of jumpers who've started in the "modern" training system.

While there may be other ways of helping raise the average level of skill, at this point in time I don't see anything really replacing the traditional mentoring that used to build intermediate skills amongst up and coming jumpers.

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Today's needs are very different.

Can you explain what you see as today's needs?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[flr169 0]

Well I ask this question........I have about 130 skydives now......I live in a bad area, meaning I have to allways travel to go skydiving....from canada to the states........I hope in the near future I can take up the sport of BASE.....I'm looking into buying a second skydive rig and putting a used base canopy in it .......then by the end of summer 06 taking a FJC and then hoping to get into Tom's week long FJC......

Now where I live, I'm 99.9% sure there is not any active base jumpers around.....
I'm pretty sure I'm the only active skydiver here...meaning have my own gear and jumping ever other weekend....

I know of some base jumpers state side down where I do some skydiving.....a friend from there that jumps took a FJC last summer.......
Now my goal is to, try and get involved in the ground crew scene down there.........

I really don't know what else I can do, to better prepare myself.........

I know of possible 3 objects around here also...but there is no chance of them being open unless I can get involved with some experienced jumpers...

That is my dilemma

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting - "fcuk me what a ride!"

[JaapSuter 0]

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"The need for mentors in the real, old fashioned sense, is diminishing..."

I disagree. I have observed the average skill level of jumpers in the sport dropping dramatically. While we still think of the same X number of jumps jumper as a "grown up" BASE jumper, the truth is that a guy with X jumps today has far less developed skills than a guy with X jumps 5 or 10 years ago.

This I won't disagree with.

But I do think we need to recognize that the majority of this new generation of jumpers won't go much beyond easily available objects. I get the feeling that the Potato generation of jumpers thinks they don't have to open up objects anymore. They go to the Perrine, then they visit Moab. Shortly after they do a trip to Europe to check out Kjerag and Lauterbrunnen, and then they come home where they continue to jump their local and easy A until they retire from the sport.

The skills necessary to jump an easly available object that is being jumped by millions before you are vastly different than the skills required to explore, scout, open, jump, land and get away from a new illegal object.

The latter, call it old-fashioned BASE if you want, has a distinct need for old-fashioned mentorship. The former, let's call it the MTV generation of BASE jumpers. They want quick satisfaction, and they're going to get it with or without our help. So we need to do the best we can.

Clearly there aren't enough old-fashioned mentors, nor do I think MTV would become much safer with them.

Moab is an advanced area for jumping. Few people disagree. Yet we won't be able to stop the MTV generation from going there, so how can we do it best?

Through existing FJCs, where we teach people they need proper brake-settings, and that they can use the bridge to do obstacle avoidance drills. Then, let them go to the Turkey boogie. There, surrounded by many experienced jumpers they can put all the risk management and decision making into the hands of other people. If the experienced jumpers say it's too windy, the MTVers won't jump either. Everybody wins.

It really becomes a simple formula. You learn how to pack; you get fifty jumps of the Perrine; you go to Moab where an experienced jumper shows you around if you're lucky, and then the summer after you visit Europe, preferably during the heliboogie, and jump at all the sites where experienced people can hold your hand.

It's a lot like backcountry skiing. Some of us still put on our snowshoes and hike for hours to get away from the lifts and face the real dangers of raw exposure to snow. Meanwhile, the majority pays the two grand and goes heliskiing with a guide. Both groups come home and call themselves backcountry skiers, but we all know the difference.

Does it matter? Not really, everybody had fun and practiced the sport safely.

The real danger is the guy that's gonna go off alone without a guide, nor proper training. This is similar to somebody going to Moab with five Perrine jumps and hiking to the top of Tombstone alone. Bad idea, but neither good mentorship nor regulation are going to stop him.

Poor decision making skills can't be cured. The best we can do is steer the majority and hope for the best.

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I think that traditional mentoring produces jumpers with a much higher average level of skill and knowledge, and that an expansion of traditional mentoring could really help to boost the average skill level of jumpers today, and especially of jumpers who've started in the "modern" training system.

That's very true, but I'll argue that today's jumping environment apparently doesn't need the skill. If you stick to the formula, defer to holding hands when appropriate, and follow the beat path, you'll be able to tick off all the checkboxes on your BASE list and call yourself a true BASE jumper.

In the past three weeks alone I've talked to two different skydivers that really wanted to try BASE some day. But only the Perrine and maybe Norway some day...

Does that person need an old-fashioned mentor? I don't think so.

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"Today's needs are very different."

Can you explain what you see as today's needs?

More outspoken experienced jumpers.

For example, I really admire what Clint is doing in Moab but from his posts you can tell he just doesn't have time and energy to redirect all the unprepared newbies that try to play on his turf. He needs help, and it's our responsibility to offer that. When we're in the area, and when we talk to other jumpers about Moab.

I just reread the above post and noticed it's a little ranty. I'll post it anyway.

In the ideal world everybody would have an old-fashioned mentor and life would be good. Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is that there aren't enough mentors (as you pointed out), but furthermore I think there is a generation of jumpers that are really looking for different things in BASE than what a mentor can offer.

[JaapSuter 0]

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I really don't know what else I can do, to better prepare myself...

You're doing great. Hang in there, it'll pay off in time.

[NickDG 23]

That's fine, but I find BASE jumping is a leveler of generational differences. Sure, jumpers come to BASE, pursue BASE, and practice BASE, each in their own way, which is the essence of BASE, but they (and we all) still experience the same feelings.

I can speak for most men and say we get from BASE one genuinely masculine thing. A tingling scrotum . . .

NickD BASE 194

[JaapSuter 0]

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I can speak for most men and say we get from BASE one genuinely masculine thing. A tingling scrotum . . .

Amen brother, amen.

That's what I meant when I said: "Does it matter? Not really, everybody had fun and practiced the sport safely."

I don't care that there is an MTV generation. It doesn't matter really, except that we need to take the observation in account when we try to come up with better ways of teaching.

[skibumhass 0]

you should take up paragliding there must be good thermals where you live

[Faber 0]

so who´s your mentor then?

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[KrisFlyZ 0]

I only jump legal objects during the day and walk away from these half the time because something didn't feel right. Do I need a mentor?

I am just a fair weather 'SE' jumper .

Kris.

[Faber 0]

if you jump in the UK yes becourse that many objects you cant jump off during the day

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Amanduh 0]

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"The need for mentors in the real, old fashioned sense, is diminishing..."

*peeks around the corner to see if it's safe to come out*

I just want to give a personal insite to what I've experienced. I have done 2 BASE jumps and the only thing that scared me was what I learned I didn't know..."No mentor will ever be able to tell you / teach you everything you need to know. There is just too much to learn". (Thanks..you know who you areREALLY accepting that there was actually NO WAY I could rely on anyone else but myself to keep me alive...I put BASE on hold and have been doing everything possible to better my odds at survival...through gaining more knowledge and experience (canopy). I am currently paying my dues...and my mentor could vouch for that. Whether ground crew, helping to maintain sites and keep them open, or whatnot...I am learning all I possibly can. I am giving time and loosing sleep and still, currently not jumping. I know this will all pay off in the long run for me though. I have actually heard others make comments about how a lot of BASE jumpers these days, do not know how to go about opening a new object nor how to maintain access to sites, etc. These are some of the things I do want to know. I personally feel it will make me a more well-rounded jumper in the long run.

On another note...I have been around this sport for a very short time, about 8 months or so...doing ground crew throughout it all and reading all of the BASE boards/forums; my learning has not stopped. *Disclaimer - Opinionated statement* It seems that a lot of the 'new generation' jumpers focus their reasoning and jumping for the wrong reasons and are learning more of the 'not-so-critical' aspects of the sport. I had the honor of meeting and hanging out with a legend in this sport and anything that came out of his mouth, I soaked up as if I were a sponge. Listening to the things that the founders of this sport went through...the details they paid attention to when jumping...basically...I noticed that everything coming out of his mouth was the foundation of BASE; the survival skills that kept them alive. Taking this all in, it made me start to feel as if BASE jumpers of today have forgotten what these guys went through....The little "minor details" (sarcasm...they are actually pretty major) that some could/would easily over look. They lived because they did a lot of prep work, planning, and detailing out every jump. It wasn't about how cool of a video you could get, or who you could brag to about it, or who can pull off the coolest aerials....it was about survival and the love for BASE jumping.

Those are the skills I want and the knowledge I seek.

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This bridge day I was standing in line for my first jump. I was wearing my shin- and knee-guards, body-armor and full-face helmet. Several people started laughing at me in a joking kind of way; asking if I was headed to a jousting contest later.

I was about to do my 76th BASE jump of my 15th object. They were about to do their first. Who can laugh now?

I could see that happening.

I feel that with today's BASE specific gear, bridge day, FJC's, etc...there are a lot of people coming into this sport without realling knowing and accepting the risks involved. It seems, a false sense of security is guiding a lot of peeps...(not all). As I said, this is merely just my opinion.

All I can say is that me, personally, ..I'd rather pay my dues to those who have got this sport to where it is today first; instead of only contributing a bad name or another # for Nick D. to add to his website.

[BASE813 0]

With the onslaught of the "new age" jumper, I see 1 of 2 things may happen:

1) We are about to see a massive peak in "the list" numbers through an even more so lack of respect during the "over confidence phase"

2) we are about to see how the risks are not so bad with so many under skilled people getting away with it and becoming nice and rounded experienced jumpers.

Which ever of these 2 occurs (mmmm.....) we will still see a lack of respect for the fundamentals and the sport is going to become something that most of us don’t want…

Normally I would step in with an American Bash here (just for shit n giggles), but when I am actually posting something seriously I don’t…. (You see the difference now? - rl you see I am not a USr basher all the time! hey? )

Caveat: I guess am actually a “new age” jumper due to my time in time in the sport, so I guess this post is worthless to the masses anyway…

[RhondaLea 3]

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(You see the difference now? - rl you see I am not a USr basher all the time! hey? )

You will be assimilated.

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb