gear sizing

[woodpecker 0]

I'm not jumping yet....
Repeat...NOT JUMPING YET...

I'm signing up for JohnnyUtahs BASE CAMP this summer and after reading his website and I would like to own my own equipment for class. I'm trying to get an idea of how much equipment will cost me and could use a little advice on size canopy/pilot chute and what rig for a beginner to buy.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I've also PM's Johnnyutah since he sells equiment, just posting this thread for other ideas, and hopefully to catch anyone awake right now.

Billy

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

[Mikki_ZH 0]

For your FJC you are only going to jump of a bridge. Minimal equipment for this is:
- BASE Rig
- Helmet
- Good Shoes
- eventually Knee pads

Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

[woodpecker 0]

I have everything on list except rig. What should I be looking at for rig? After researching canopies and PC's I know they are larger than what I skydive with. Not sure how much larger I need...or what brand for a beginner. Rig (pin/velcro) just need some direction on what a new BASE jumper should start on.

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

[shunkka 0]

read this article by tom aiello...
hope it will help u a lot

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=65

-------------------------
"jump, have fun, pull"

[woodpecker 0]

That website was exactly what I needed. Thanks....

Only question I still have is Canopy Size?

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

[maretus 0]

Quote

That website was exactly what I needed. Thanks....

Only question I still have is Canopy Size?

Search the forums with keywords "wingloading base" fro example, the topic of wingloading and canopy sizes in base have been discussed here pretty thoroughly. You'll find plenty of answers for example here : http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=927757;

http://www.ufufreefly.com

[helge 0]

Larger is better.. Wingload around 0,7 -0,75 seems to be whats recommended by most manufacturers.. I have a 240 and loading it 0,7. That works great, but my next will probably be a 260.

[woodpecker 0]

That answers all of my questions for now. Thanks for all the input and looking foward to entering the BASE community.

Billy

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

[ultraviolet 0]

If your going to be doing alot of slider down work def get bottom skin inlets and big grab toggles. These things alone can save your life. I started out on a pin rig and really see no advantages to velcro, but that's just me.
Have fun and welcome to the party.

[dmcoco84 4]

Quote

That website was exactly what I needed. Thanks....

Only question I still have is Canopy Size?

I'm 150 pounds with no gear and I jump a 220 so just like they said, around .7 is good.

Also, my two cents, get a pin rig!! There are so many more benfits than velcro! They are easier to pack also. I packed a velcro the other day and it was irritating. One of the major things I saw when looking at a pin rig was being told that pin tension can be an issue. Pin tension is not hard to get down. Took me two pack jobs to know what to do it correctly.

As Jimmy from Apex told me "Apex recommends pin rig for your first, second and third BASE rigs."
Coco

[woodpecker 0]

Damnit....just as I make up my mind, more info.

COCO, your in the UK right?

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

[JaapSuter 0]

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Also, my two cents, get a pin rig!! There are so many more benfits than velcro!

Can you list these?

Quote

They are easier to pack also. I packed a velcro the other day and it was irritating.

How often have you packed a velcro rig, and how often a pin rig? Could it be that you just had more practice on the pin rig? I have yet to meet a beginner that thinks pins are easier to close than velcro. Especially not once they start making sure they don't distort the packjob on closing.

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One of the major things I saw when looking at a pin rig was being told that pin tension can be an issue. Pin tension is not hard to get down. Took me two pack jobs to know what to do it correctly.

What kind of range of objects and altitudes have you jumped? Do you know how to setup your pin tension for a sub 230 freefall, versus a terminal wingsuit jump? Can you put on a spectra closing loop?

Have you thought about all the different ways you can route a bridle? Does yours come out of the middle, or from the top? Every year at Bridge Day, at least three people are caught with a total mal because they didn't leave slack above the top pin.

You've done virtual groundcrew jumps already, right? Ever worried about your pin tension after you put on your rig and tightened your straps? Much less of an issue with velcro rigs.

I'm not saying that velcro is better than pin, but I'm curious how much exposure to and experience you have with different gear configurations.

[FIREFLYR 0]

Dude, give Johnny a call, he'll take good care of you.
~J

"One flew East,and one flew West..............one flew over the cuckoo's nest"
"There's absolutely no excuse for the way I'm about to act"

[dmcoco84 4]

No, Virginia beach, VA Is in my profile.

So what gear are you looking at give us an update.

Coco

[dmcoco84 4]

I'll reply to this when I get home. (530EST) I can't really have the board up for more than a few seconds, the boss is working behind me. Only when she leaves do I bring it up.

Coco

[980 0]

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I'll reply to this when I get home. (530EST)
Coco

better yet, why not do woodpecker a favour and don't bother to post any more gear advice and opinions to this thread ?



woodpecker - gear sizing and selection is not something that should be decided based mainly on internet forum posts

you will find a lot of people with way too little experience posting all kinds of advice...

when someone with many hundreds of basejumps on loads of different gear posts their advice and opinions on gear - pay attention

when someone with 15 base jumps in 1.5 years (according to their profile) posts 3 of the 10 replies you have received so far - you have to wonder...

your mentor is actually the best place to get this advice, assuming you have a mentor and you have chosen one wisely.

some of Tom's articles on getting started covers how to choose one and why you need one

get some more skydives too, you'll be glad you did later

cya
sam

PS - I have over a hundred jumps with a velcro rig and almost double that on my pin rigs, but I'm not going to be posting gear advice because I know I don't have enough experience to.

[JaapSuter 0]

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better yet, why not do woodpecker a favour and don't bother to post any more gear advice and opinions to this thread?

That's a little harsh. I'm sure Coco is just trying to help. It is Woodpecker's repsonsibility to synch advice with experience levels, not Coco's.

Quote

I have over a hundred jumps with a velcro rig and almost double that on my pin rigs, but I'm not going to be posting gear advice because I know I don't have enough experience to.

That's nonsense and you know it. You have an opinion, and with that amount of jumps, given in the proper context, it can be very useful.

Advice is useful at any level of experience, but it depends on how you bring it. If Coco had said the following, it would have been different all together...

"I personally prefer pin-rigs, but that's based on only 15 BASE jumps. I've only once tried to pack a velcro rig and thought it to be harder than packing my pin rig. That is probably because I just haven't practiced it as much as the pin rig though. I talked to Jimmy at Apex and he mentioned that pin rigs are the way to go. That said, I'm aware there are many velcro proponents out there still, and they do offer some advantages. Research recommended."

[dmcoco84 4]

Well, I was just gonna go through old emails and post all the stuff I was told (like by APEX, Tom, and other sources) I keep that stuff for future reference but I'll keep my mouth shut.

Coco

[JaapSuter 0]

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Well, I was just gonna go through old emails and post all the stuff I was told (like by APEX, Tom, and other sources) I keep that stuff for future reference but I'll keep my mouth shut.

Just ignore 980...

This similarly inexperienced jumper is still interested in what you have to say.

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

read this article by tom aiello...
hope it will help u a lot

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=65

That edition of my "First Rig" article is a little outdated. A more current copy can be found as a downloadable .pdf on my Personal Web Page, in the public folder (public folder download is down at the end of that mess of title links). Apologies for the disorganization of that page, it's just somewhere that I throw stuff up temporarily to link to.

I'd attach it to this post, but it exceeds the attachment limit for DZ.com.

If anyone wants me to email it to them, drop me a PM or email with an address where you can take a 150k attachment.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[blitzkrieg 0]

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Every year at Bridge Day, at least three people are caught with a total mal because they didn't leave slack above the top pin.

just for my own curiosity... could you or anyone throw up a picture of what that would look like?

it used to cross my mind, especially when packing quick in the dark for the next low banger... but i sat for a while dicking around with my rig and couldn't seem to "mess it up". i'm sure it can be done as you say... but it freaks me out that i still don't know what it might look like!!

~E

[TomAiello 25]

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...just for my own curiosity... could you or anyone throw up a picture of what that would look like?

Basically, to create a total malfunciton, don't leave any slack above the pin. The PC tries to pull the bridle out of the (still closed) container, but can't, because the pin is still in place. The pin doesn't take any pressure, because the bridle is taking it first.

I'll try to snap some photos tomorrow.

edit for clarity ~TA

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[blitzkrieg 0]

thanks tom, much appreciated!!

[dmcoco84 4]

Apex solves this problem with "dummy velcro." 2 inch fold of velcro above the top pin. As they told me, "only a dummy could mess it up, hense the name...."

Coco

[TomAiello 25]

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Apex solves this problem with "dummy velcro." 2 inch fold of velcro above the top pin. As they told me, "only a dummy could mess it up, hense the name...."

That's pretty much standard on all rigs where the manufacturers intended routing is out the top. Some manufacturers also put both patches of velcro directly on the bridle (so you have to fold them over against each other, which creates the needed slack). The problem is that people swap bridles around quite a bit. I've even seen several "dummies" who didn't know what that little patch of velcro was intended for.

On rigs where the intended routing is out the middle (like the Gargoyle), this is obviously a non-issue.


The problem is when people get a bridle from a rig that doesn't need the velcro (like a Gargoyle) and put it on a rig that does need it (like a DP).

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com