tandem base!!!

[dzjohn 0]

Heard a rumour herein N.Z that some one wants to start up tandem base jumping, Wot are you guys thoughts

[leroydb 0]

i am thinking troll... unless this is true...

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[dzjohn 0]

The rumour is that a very well known adventure thrill seeker come business man is going to setup a operation here in N.Z

[TomAiello 25]

Hmmm. Wouldn't happen to be yet another Red Bull sponsored "jumper" would it?

Tandem BASE jumps are phenomenally dangerous. I know of about 5 that have ever been done, all with experienced jumpers in both slots ("passenger" and tandem master). The video of the Norwegian big wall tandems is stunning--imagine jumping a big wall without the ability to track.

If I recall correctly, the very first tandem was done by Ted Strong and Robin Heid at Bridge Day, before the FAA allowed tandem jumps from airplanes.

Hmmm. I wonder how long until we see tandems out here?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[dzjohn 0]

Not red bull sponsored but would probably go for it.
The guy set up bungy as a comercial venture way back when

[NickDG 23]

Surprised? The real issue is why it took so long . . .

I begged Todd to build a BASE tandem rig back in the eighties figuring I could fly stressed out business types from the tops of Los Angeles buildings for a thousand dollars a pop. Thank goodness Todd thought better of it. We weren't ready. Are we now?

The right crew, at the right Bridge, over the right landing area, with the right gear could probably do tandem BASE with real passengers all day long. They could even charge extra for a loop-de-loop in freefall. But that's a lot of "rights" coming together in one place. NZed? Old hand at bungee jumping? A. J. Hackett? Maybe the bungee thing is slowing down and Japanese tourists are ready for the next thing.

The future?

Five hundred square foot FLiKs? Aerodynamic passenger pods attached to BASE tandem masters wearing huge wingsuits so they track just fine? In two years we'll be debating the dangers of BASE tandem masters wearing POV video cameras on their wrists.

Is it possible or practical? I don’t know. We'll find out after the Kiwis implement the program where after five as a passenger, deploying the pilot chute and flying the canopy on the last three, you do two or three more solos and presto you're a BASE jumper..

"There ya go, no worries, just work on that heading thing and she'll be right . . . Don't forget to visit our gear store on your way out Mate . . ."

At least I hope they teach, I'd hate to see it just a BASE Tandem mill.

NickD BASE 194

[TVPB 0]

That's an extremely humorous response Nick.
Or was it serious????

There have been a number of people toying with the idea of BASE tandem money making machines.

My personal thoughts: I've done a couple of BASE tandems with people and a number with a pet dog. As Tom A said, my passenger was an extremely experienced BASE jumper. In fact, one of the best ever. With a lot of preparation and planning, we still did not execute perfect jumps. When exit timing was even slightly out, there was a greater propensity to go head down. If you had an inexperienced person doing this, the chance of line/leg entanglements are high. The momentum and speed on the swing through is much greater with a pair than a single jumper if head down. This will load the risers even more, and if uneven will exaggerate and accelerate off headings and line twists. Have you ever tried kicking out of line twists on a tandem at 300 feet? Neither have I. I've done it at 3000 ft and its still not fun at that height.

Throw in the possibility of water landings whilst wrapped in lines and having a passenger suffering sensory overload and it becomes real fun. There is a higher chance of concussion both during opening and landing, especially on lower bridge jumps where the canopy may not have enough time to transition from deployment to surge created by brake release to flare on landing.

Are BASE tandem sausage factories possible? Of course. But many things need to be managed & considered & overcome prior to progressing to the mass market.

Your SOP's must be very detailed and your instructors trained extremely well. Every detail from exit timing, equipment maintenance and stress testing (due to water landings), customer screening, instructor training & development, etc.

You would also have to modify the deployment sequence, include a back up plan for situations like line entanglements, etc.

What about doing these over land instead of water? I am sure that if someone set up a successful BASE tandem operation over water, someone would like to do the same where there is no water. Can I hear an ouch from the tandem master? How often do you get a tandem passenger who takes several minutes to respond to your instructions? How often does it take your passenger to change from the I can't lift my legs stage to actually lifting the legs? Lucky you have 4000ft to achieve this. Imagine trying this from 400ft. What about sensory overload lasting tens of seconds? OK from 10000ft but not so good from 1000ft! Are side spins with zero exit speed possible?

There is also the issue of quality assurance systems. Government departments would need some higher level guarantees that this activity would be relatively safe and that an independant body would exist that could audit the activity. One major accident and its outlawed. This usually means an umbrella organisation

Liability in places like the USA and Australia is also a huge issue. Lucky the Kiwis aren't a bunch of prudes like us Aussies and the Yanks. They have much more relaxed liability laws!!!

My personal opinion, BASE tandems are more hassle than they are worth. It would be easier to do BASE solo's over water. Maybe I'll change my mind. Good luck to those that give it a go.

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[460 0]

Perhaps use a zero forward speed round then, to reduce the problems associated with heading and line twists? Also, the canopy will open slower and reduce problems with hard openings. Hopefully it wouldn't open too slow to be inappropriate for a 300' bridge over water.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[TVPB 0]

Yep - that is one of the things I was thinking when mentioning modifying gear.

However, it depends on the topography of the jump site. A narrow gorge with turbulent winds and inexperienced people on a round is asking for trouble. One of the locations being considered for the NZ operation is like the scenario I described.

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[skypuppy 1]

Maybe in a sleeve, eh?

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

Perhaps use a zero forward speed round then, to reduce the problems associated with heading and line twists? Also, the canopy will open slower and reduce problems with hard openings. Hopefully it wouldn't open too slow to be inappropriate for a 300' bridge over water.

If you were going to do that, why not just eliminate the tandem master and run a standard death camp?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Zennie 0]

K that's it... I see the future... tandem BASE aerials.

Brit & I are working on rigging up a tandem harness right now and plan to try a tandem double twisting triple reverse from our favorite local object.

Plan is to roshambo for the meat slot. We'll let you know how it works out...

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[NickDG 23]

Sometimes an overlooked fact about bridges is while they offer clean air to deploy in; they generally have lousy landing areas. After all the bridge is there in the first place because the topography was so rough they couldn't build a road . . .

Anyone who does tandems at the DZ and also BASE jumps would quickly see some of the problems involved. We could eventually work out the gear to do it, but I wouldn't do it without my passenger wearing a straight jacket and our launch being facilitated by some apparatus that guaranteed dropping us rig side up. And I guarantee I'd quit the first time one of them peed on me.

You're adding an X factor, the student, to a type of jump already filled with X factors. Also, being old school, and a statement about tandem in general, is I've always looked slightly askew at people who showed up at the DZ to do tandems. Either they didn't research the sport and the other methods of making a first jump, or they did, and they lacked the self confidence to go that route. Neither trait is a good starting point for BASE jumping. (Or skydiving either.)

Another down side is if this were to somehow catch on and spread around the world, regulation would follow close behind. It would take only a few sets of pissed off and grieving parents to see to that. Tom's probably right, if the money's there, this BASE tandem idea might develop into a death camp with rounds and static lines once the first round of tandem masters get hauled off to the hospital.

I'm not too worried though, BASE jumping has its own protective mechanism built in as its so skill and knowledge intensive. In time when I see so many vids of so-called experienced BASE jumpers spending their last seconds before impacting an object grabbing for a toggle when salvation is a riser turn away it's clear we aren't ready for this . . .

NickD BASE 194

[veter_ 0]

How about combining bungee and BASE? Deploy before bungee cord stretches, have a couple of seconds under a canopy, then a few minutes above the canopy.

[vandev 0]

If you were going to do that, why not just eliminate the tandem master and run a standard death camp?
***

That has to be the quote of the day.........Even from my unexperiance...it would be a death camp....

Oh Tom, i did see a picture of what looked like a AFF looking base jump in Norway. The picture was at exit and he had a jumper on each side with AFF holds on his harness.... Has this ever been done??? I could see that happening....at least you could make it till opening....then what?// i guess you could call it cripple camp...... or ABJ......

In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle"

[veter_ 0]

Or bungee cord simply attached to the bridle, so pulls the chute at the start of the stretch and stops the fall at full stretch.

Why not teach students this way?

[veter_ 0]

Why not? Imagine George Bush Sr. jumping with two Golden Knights.......

[vandev 0]

I would still have to say cripple camp.....They can pull your pilot but you can still 180......

In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle"

[vandev 0]

I would have to agree....but i think we still overlook the most important fact..... It only takes a bucket of money...a moron with a huge ego..... a well paid guide.....to scale Mt. everest... they do it every year...and even when they die, and they do every year..... they find it acceptable..... go figure.....Rollarball willl soon be prime time tv again....only with the death factor..... I dont know if any of you watch the deadliest season on discovery....but ratings on this show are out the roof....It's now one of the most watched shows on TV and It's been on for only a couple of weeks....You cant walk threw a office without someone talking about it...people love to watch this stuff....

In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle"

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

...i did see a picture of what looked like a AFF looking base jump in Norway. The picture was at exit and he had a jumper on each side with AFF holds on his harness.... Has this ever been done???

It was a spoof. All three jumpers were experienced, and they were filming so that one of them (an AFF jump master) could show off the "AFF jump" at his home DZ.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[wilmshurst 0]

AJ Hackett made a comment about investigating offering tandem BASE on a popular NZ sports variety show. My initial reaction was that he was mainly trying to be a 'hard/bad ass' in response to a question from one of the male presenters. However, his company may well have or be investigating this possibility.

Hackett initiated commercial bungy jumping, which is an activity that is very safe and is targeted at tourists and one-off adventure seekers. They have not shown a willingness to stick with more 'complex' activities such as heli-bungy and would thus be doing things abit differently if they offered tandem BASE. Also, they would need to develop tandem BASE as a safe activity. You can't have your punters going in on a regular basis because they want perceived risk, not an actual chance of physical injury or death. Hackett's company has shown a willingness to build or develop launch platforms for bungy and so the development of an appropriate span should not be a huge problem.

So what happens if your 60-year old female next door neighbour or the 16-year old boy next door meets you at a BBQ and proclaims that they too are a BASE jumper cos they have done a tandem BASE? What if you are 'only' a skydiver with no BASE experience? Makes ya think eh!

The only thing worse than a cold toilet seat is a warm toilet seat.

[subterminal 0]

Just out of curiosity: Are there any tandem instructors who base jump who would seriously considering doing commercial tandem base jumps?

We've been joking about doing this in Norway - from a cliff a couple of tandem jumps were done some years ago - making the tourists pay huge money.

Personally I'm quite happy to look after myself when base jumping, and have no problem looking after my student on a tandem skydive. I'm not the most experienced jumper around, but I have done enough base and tandem to feel it's ok to claim this is something that's not suitable for the masses.

CJ=)

[TVPB 0]

Yes - I do/have done enough of both.

Tandem BASE in special circumstances I have no problems with. There is no way in hell I would do it day in day out with people I have never met before. Normal Tandems punish your body enough as it is, BASE tandems will age you VERY quickly, if they don't kill you first. And for what? $50 a jump?

Just my $0.01

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[ncjumpjunkie 0]

Quote

Hmmm. Wouldn't happen to be yet another Red Bull sponsored "jumper" would it?

Tandem BASE jumps are phenomenally dangerous. I know of about 5 that have ever been done, all with experienced jumpers in both slots ("passenger" and tandem master). The video of the Norwegian big wall tandems is stunning--imagine jumping a big wall without the ability to track.

If I recall correctly, the very first tandem was done by Ted Strong and Robin Heid at Bridge Day, before the FAA allowed tandem jumps from airplanes.

Hmmm. I wonder how long until we see tandems out here?

Here is the link to the Bridge Day Tandem jump.
http://members.citynet.net/skydiver/Bridge2/tedstrong.htm

SONIC BEEF #1 BASE 708, NC BASE 3
SLI,IADI,AFFI.TIE.FAA Rigger, Single & Multi Commercial Pilot,CFI, CFII, MEI

[Twoply 0]

I can just see it now. The student's responsibilities are to climb the gear up the A. If that doesn't deter some customers, having to go at 3am and looking out for cops while I pick this lock should.