cypress 8 year service

[edjackson 0]

Does anyone know what the risks are in using a cypress that is late on the 8 year service? Is it like using an out of date reserve? Is it better to not even turn the cypress on if your going to jump, or is having a cypress that is a few weeks late on its service better than using no cypress at all.

[phoenixlpr 0]

I dont agree with you. Just think about a misfire.

[edjackson 0]

Yes that is my question. Is the risk of a misfire greater than the risk of not using a cypress? I do not have an opinion because I do'nt know.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Does anyone know what the risks are in using a cypress that is late on the 8 year service?

If it is more than 3 months past the DOM + 8 years, you risk the pilot's license because under FAR Part 105, it is not legal to jump it out of date. The rigger also risks their license because it is not legal to pack a reserve unless the AAD is maintained according to the manufacturer's specs.

As for the risk of it not working, firing prematurely, etc, the risks are unknown.

Derek

[phoenixlpr 0]

I would jump without it. I had jumps without AAD.

[riggerrob 558]

If you jump an out-of-date Cypres, you risk the pilot's and rigger's licenses, but probably not your life.
Airtec already allows three months slack - before or after its birthday - on scheduled maintenance.
A Cypres will probably save your life a year or two later, just not as reliably. Highly unlikely that it will mis-fire. More likely the batteries will die and your old Cypres will do nothing.
I know one poor professional skydiver who left his Cypres in his rig until the batteries died! Not legal, not recommended, but not dangerous.
The worst thing you could do is die because you forgot to pull AND you were afraid to turn on an out-of-date Cypres. That scenario describes the last fatality at Pitt Meadows.
February is a slow month at most North American and European DZs. Now is the best time to mail your Cypres to SSK for that 8-year check.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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The worst thing you could do is die because you forgot to pull AND you were afraid to turn on an out-of-date Cypres.

Forget to pull? Are you serious?
I dont think so. If I allowed to go without AAD I DO know that I must pull.

Cypress should be that last last resort. I think it was in the manual: Turn it on and forget it. -> So dont trust on it. It may save your life, but no warranty or you may complain in afterlife....

[eames 0]

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...you risk the pilot's and rigger's licenses

Would he risk the pilot's license? Yes. Would he risk the rigger's license? Not likely. That is, unless the rigger installed an out-of-date Cypres. Otherwise, why would a rigger be responsible for someone jumping out-of-date equipment? Riggers have no control over that.

Jason

[GravityGirl 0]

What is the DOM? You can factor in +/- 3 months from the DOM.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[PhreeZone 15]

The battery is not part of that 3 month window. If the battery was installed at 2 years from service month, then the battery is "dead" that same time too.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Tonto 1]

I sent my Cypres in for it's 4 year check, and they fucked it up. It never worked for 2 years after that. No code, nothing. - and that after spending over 6 months with them.(or rather not with me) Started working again when the battery was changed by my rigger. I thought they would have thought about that - but evidently not. In a word - "unempressed"

When it came to 8 years, I though "Fuck that." I never sent it in. I sign a waiver for my rigger, replace the batteries as recomended and have done 800 dives in the 2.5 years since then. Our pilots don't face the same bullshit yours do there, so they're not at risk of anything. If I ever buy a new Cypres - I'll only send it in if it's broken.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[nbblood 0]

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Would he risk the pilot's license? Yes. Would he risk the rigger's license? Not likely. That is, unless the rigger installed an out-of-date Cypres. Otherwise, why would a rigger be responsible for someone jumping out-of-date equipment? Riggers have no control over that.

I know my rigger checks the data card before he accepts a rig for repack. It has the Cypres info on it (DOM, when batteries were replaced, when last serviced). I know he will NOT pack a reserve with a Cypres that is not current. He WILL take it out and repack if you so desire. I'm not an rigger, and I really don't know for sure, but I was led to believe that riggers are liable for packing a Cypres that is not current. Anybody else? Can anybody reference the FAA reg on this?
Blues.
Nathan

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Can anybody reference the FAA reg on this?

FAR Part 105. In the U.S. the AAD, if installed, must be maintained according to the manucaturer's specs.

Derek

[eames 0]

nbblood said:

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I know my rigger checks the data card before he accepts a rig for repack. It has the Cypres info on it (DOM, when batteries were replaced, when last serviced). I know he will NOT pack a reserve with a Cypres that is not current. He WILL take it out and repack if you so desire. I'm not an rigger, and I really don't know for sure, but I was led to believe that riggers are liable for packing a Cypres that is not current. Anybody else? Can anybody reference the FAA reg on this?

Hooknswoop said:

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FAR Part 105. In the U.S. the AAD, if installed, must be maintained according to the manucaturer's specs.

Of course a rigger would be liable for packing a Cypres that isn't in date. I don't know a single rigger, myself included, that would risk his ticket by packing an out-of-date Cypres... that's not my point. Time passes and service dates come and go. My point is that a rigger is not responsible for a skydiver that gets on a plane with out-of-date gear. In fact, according to FAR Part 105.43, there are only two people that are responsible for the use of the parachute system and they are the person conducting the parachute operation and the pilot in command. That's it. Legally jumping the parachute system is only loosely related to legally packing the parachute system. So if someone jumps out-of-date gear, the pilot could lose his license, the jumper himself could suffer some kind of legal action, but the rigger is certainly not responsible. Does anyone disagree?

Jason

[riggerrob 558]

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Can anybody reference the FAA reg on this?

FAR Part 105. In the U.S. the AAD, if installed, must be maintained according to the manucaturer's specs.

Derek

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

CSPA policy is the same: "... maintained according to the manufacturer's specs."

CSPA is the only organization that issues riggers' licenses in Canada, so Transport Canada allows CSPA to write all the rigging standards.

[nbblood 0]

Aaah, I see what you're saying....jumper has gone past the 120 day repack cycle......now that I agree with, in that case I don't think the rigger could be liable. Of course, I'm not a lawyer either.....lol

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[eames 0]

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....jumper has gone past the 120 day repack cycle

....or the Cypres 8-year in this case.

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....in that case I don't think the rigger could be liable.

Actually, I'm going so far as to say that a rigger is not responsible for the use of a parachute system, period. A rigger is only responsible for the proper packing of the parachute system. If it's found that a rigger packed an out-of-date Cypres, then yes, he would be liable for packing a parachute system in a way that is not in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions. However, that still does not make the rigger responsible for the use of the parachute system (I'm digressing here.... I mean, we could get into whether or not the jumper knew it was in date, etc., etc., ad nauseam, but I think we're really just talking about a jumper that's trying to jump out-of-date gear that was once in date.).

Jason

[nbblood 0]

Yeah, I see what your saying. Makes sense to me.

I think going back to the original post, if the Cypres is out of date, the reserve repack is out of date. If that's the case, the rigger won't repack the reserve with an out of date Cypres and a responsible DZ won't let the jumper jump with an out of date reserve repack. Therefore, the answer is get the Cypres maintenance done, or remove the Cypres for repack, whatever you decide.

Blues,

Nathan

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[ernokaikkonen 0]

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If I ever buy a new Cypres - I'll only send it in if it's broken.

That's what you think.... You can't buy batteries for the Cypres2. They get changed at the 4-year check. So you'll have to send it in when it runs out of juice.

[Tonto 1]

I have a Cypres 1.

Maintenance? It's a scam. You can't maintain hardware. It works until it doesn't. In some cases, that'll be seconds, in others, perhaps 100's of years. I work in the IT industry. Things can be "perfect" and you send it across the road, and it's broken. I also know many, many people running 286, 486 and P1 powered PC's with many more working bits than a Cypres, with 100 000's of hours of operation without failure over decades of use. Airtec used the info gathered from your units to develop the Cypres 2. Everyone was and is paying for their R & D, which is why feild replaceable cutters were not available till past the first units 4 year check.

As for prematures, I see them now and then, usually caused by one of many reasons not related to AAD's.
I've yet to see any Cypres fire early.

Cypres 1's were in production till last year, so it looks like I'll have batteries about for the next 11.5 years. I'll worry about things after that. As we say, I'll jump off that bridge when I get there...

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Maintenance? It's a scam. You can't maintain hardware.

Components degrade over time. This reduces performance. They test each component and if out of limits, replace it.

As long as your country's regulations don't require it and you don't want the maintenance done, so be it. But if it misfires or doesn't work when you need it, you have given up any right to complain about it.

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I also know many, many people running 286, 486 and P1 powered PC's with many more working bits than a Cypres, with 100 000's of hours of operation without failure over decades of use.

I doubt those computers are use in a life-saving role.

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Airtec used the info gathered from your units to develop the Cypres 2. Everyone was and is paying for their R & D, which is why feild replaceable cutters were not available till past the first units 4 year check.

You jump a G4. Mirage did the same thing with their containers to get to the G4. You have a Temp reserve. Which has been updated tot he Smart reserve. I guess you paid for that R & D. Companies continually upgrade their products to remain competitive. The Cypres has an incredible record over the last 12+ years. Seems to me they only made the Cypres2 a bit nicer, but no real differences.

Think you are making a mistake by not getting the maintenance done to your Cypres. Call them up and talk to them about what they do during the maintenance check and then decide.

Derek

[Tonto 1]

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if it misfires or doesn't work when you need it, you have given up any right to complain about it.

If I'm dead - I won't complain. We don't have the sue culture you have there.

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I doubt those computers are use in a life-saving role.

No, they're not. In turn, my Cypres may, or may not save my life one day. For the past 10.5 years, it's primary job has been to run it's batteries flat. Nothing more. No life saving role there.

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I guess you paid for that R & D. Companies continually upgrade their products to remain competitive.

Sure I paid for it, but I wasn't charged for it after I'd purchased the Mirage, or the Tempo. I was for the Cypress. No one recalls their harnesses, mains, reserves, helmets, altimeters, audiables etc every 4 years to check - and I'll tell you right now that I think my rig is a whole lot more critical than my cypres.

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Think you are making a mistake by not getting the maintenance done to your Cypres.
Derek

And time will give us the answer to that one. If I lose altitude awareness and whistle in with an out of date cypres on my back, or if I have a premature reserve deployment while head down and my overloaded 120 reserve blows and I die - you have my full permission to say "I told him so." Meantime, I'll keep jumping my non checked cypres.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[velo90 0]

If you don't want to bother maintaining it why bother buying one in the first place? The maintence cost's are small compared to the purchase price.

Ask airtec, they do find units that are not operating to perfection and they do replace parts on such units.

Your cypres may not be in a position to work at all and you don't even know it.

[Tonto 1]

I didn't buy it. it was a gift. most expensive gift I've ever had.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[meatbomb 0]

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maintence cost's are small compared to the purchase price.

The costs are almost equivalent in the UK:
Cost of Cypres: £700
Cost of maintenance: £500

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