When to collapse your slider?

[potatoman 0]

Hello Birds,
I am reading up on doing wingsuiting, and from the guides, I need to react in the following sequence after opening:
free arms completely
fly on rears for clear air space, keep toggles stowed.
collapse slider
free legs completely
Now take full flight.

Why is the slider collapse in this order? I would think that would just fall in place after legs are freed, and then take toggles and go.....

Thanx in advance.

You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is.
Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum"
Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD.

[Bluhdow 31]

Here's what I do:

1. Free arms, use rears to clear space
2. Free legs, stow legwing
3. Collapse slider, stow behind my head
4. Unstow toggles
5. Loosen chest strap

Apex BASE
#1816

[lurch 0]

Personally I go for slider and toggles only after entire suit is taken care of.
My sequence is,
Canopy open,
hands on risers ready to dodge unexpected canopies/turn for home
Set course for DZ if not directly overhead already,
Unzip arms
Scout for traffic
Unzip legs and fasten snaps to ensure not-tripping on landing
Again scout for traffic that may have snuck up on me while distracted
Pop slider (I don't stow it anywhere I just collapse it and leave it)
Look around again, update myself on things
Pop toggles
Set grip in toggles and ensure front/rear riser control
Turn all attention to canopy flight.
Go home
set up pattern
Land.

If there are any complications such as navigation, distance, nearby canopies, sudden need to fight a wind, etc, I'll skip the tail and save it for last so I can free up a few more seconds and get on the canopy piloting a bit sooner. Also may omit slider till later for same reason.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[dthames 0]

What Lurch said is pretty much my practice.

I guess if the flapping slider sound bothers someone, you can do it sooner, or having it collapsed might give better traffic visibility, that might be a plus.

edited to add: I get all of that done in about 20-30 seconds normally.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[fasted3 0]

potatoman

Hello Birds,
I am reading up on doing wingsuiting, and from the guides, I need to react in the following sequence after opening:
free arms completely

>>> Depends on the suit, many allow you to reach risers or even toggles without unzipping the arms.

fly on rears for clear air space, keep toggles stowed.
collapse slider

>>> Yes, I generally do this before unzipping legs. It's not really critical to do it at all, or unzip legs for that matter. I do, but if I didn't, I'd land anyway.

free legs completely
Now take full flight.

Why is the slider collapse in this order? I would think that would just fall in place after legs are freed, and then take toggles and go.....

Thanx in advance.

I think Lurch gave a really good response to your question. For me, I could probably do it either way. Also, I don't stow the tail and just land with it behind me. So far so good, but it might bite me in the ass one day.

But what do I know?

[DSE 3]

Unzip arms
Hands on risers to steer clear of traffic/orient towards the DZ
Unzip legs (stow em' if that's your preference, I recommend it)
Collapse slider
Release toggles
Fly home

[b52 0]

Unzip arms
Hands on risers to steer clear of traffic/orient towards the DZ
Release toggles
Unzip legs and stow them
Collapse slider
Fly home

The reason why I release the toggles first is to make sure I really have a good canopy over my head. Let's say it took you a while to stow the legwing, you are already lower than your hard deck and suddenly after releasing the toggles you have a bad canopy over your head?

[The111 1]

Depends how loud it is flapping.

That's actually the truth though. For the most part my sequence is similar to what has been posted already:

1) arm zips
2) leg zips
3) collapse slider
4) stow slider
5) release brakes

However, if the slider is flapping really loud and annoying me, then I will collapse it before doing the leg zips. There's really no reason to do either one first though. Neither is safety critical... in most modern suits with wide legwings, you could land without doing either.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[DSE 3]

B52

Unzip arms
Hands on risers to steer clear of traffic/orient towards the DZ
Release toggles
Unzip legs and stow them
Collapse slider
Fly home

The reason why I release the toggles first is to make sure I really have a good canopy over my head. Let's say it took you a while to stow the legwing, you are already lower than your hard deck and suddenly after releasing the toggles you have a bad canopy over your head?

Then you should have opened higher.
Let's say you thought you didn't clear traffic after unzipping arms, releasing your toggles, and now you are in full flight. Then, while flying much faster (without much control) you release the toggles, clear the legs and find your inputs (from moving around) cause you to turn towards someone else. You're likely not looking forward, so you aren't aware that you're heading towards someone else at a high rate of speed. They're unaware you're flying fast because they too, are still unzipping.
What may happen next?
Hopefully you're aware enough to recognize at a low altitude that your legwings don't need to be stowed and that part of the process can be ignored for this jump (Like this this guy] ).
Hopefully you'll open higher next time.

[b52 0]

Both ways are good, I just prefer this way especially after the Elsinore fatality (camera guy (no ws) fiddling with his camera) released his toggles to find out he had a bad canopy.
Slow or fast under canopy you always have to be aware of other jumpers.

[DSE 3]

B52

Both ways are good, I just prefer this way especially after the Elsinore fatality (camera guy (no ws) fiddling with his camera) released his toggles to find out he had a bad canopy.
Slow or fast under canopy you always have to be aware of other jumpers.

A-if you feel "both ways are good" you might want to re-think the scenario better.
B-There is quite a bit more to Shindig's death than just "fiddling with his camera, releasing toggles to find he had a bad canopy."
The two aren't at all related, and can't be related.

[WickedWingsuits 0]

B52

Both ways are good, I just prefer this way especially after the Elsinore fatality (camera guy (no ws) fiddling with his camera) released his toggles to find out he had a bad canopy.
Slow or fast under canopy you always have to be aware of other jumpers.

Your concern is valid but I think you are fixing it the wrong way.

There have also been incidents where released toggles have become tied up in the lines.

Best bet is to open high enough to do your house cleaning and then pop toggles by a good decision altitude.

For me I like to be done with all tasks and pop toggles by 1800.

I was taught a long time ago that once you had the toggles securely in your hands you should keep them there. It makes sense not to have them flapping around in the wind. It actually has nothing to do with wingsuiting, we just happen to have a few extra things to do.

Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

[nickfrey 0]

WickedWingsuits

***Both ways are good, I just prefer this way especially after the Elsinore fatality (camera guy (no ws) fiddling with his camera) released his toggles to find out he had a bad canopy.
Slow or fast under canopy you always have to be aware of other jumpers.

Your concern is valid but I think you are fixing it the wrong way.

There have also been incidents where released toggles have become tied up in the lines.

Best bet is to open high enough to do your house cleaning and then pop toggles by a good decision altitude.

For me I like to be done with all tasks and pop toggles by 1800.

I was taught a long time ago that once you had the toggles securely in your hands you should keep them there. It makes sense not to have them flapping around in the wind. It actually has nothing to do with wingsuiting, we just happen to have a few extra things to do.


So do you leave your chest strap tight or loosen it before clearing your brakes?

[wasatchrider 0]

DSE

***Unzip arms
Hands on risers to steer clear of traffic/orient towards the DZ
Release toggles
Unzip legs and stow them
Collapse slider
Fly home

The reason why I release the toggles first is to make sure I really have a good canopy over my head. Let's say it took you a while to stow the legwing, you are already lower than your hard deck and suddenly after

releasing the toggles you have a bad canopy over your head?

Then you should have opened higher.
Let's say you thought you didn't clear traffic after unzipping arms, releasing your toggles, and now you are in full flight. Then, while flying much faster (without much control) you release the toggles, clear the legs and find your inputs (from moving around) cause you to turn towards someone else. You're likely not looking forward, so you aren't aware that you're heading towards someone else at a high rate of speed. They're unaware you're flying fast because they too, are still unzipping.
What may happen next?
Hopefully you're aware enough to recognize at a low altitude that your legwings don't need to be stowed and that part of the process can be ignored for this jump (Like this this guy] ).
Hopefully you'll open higher next time.


At my dz we have land before the plane can unless you pull below 3000 or open right above holding area an spiral down you get yelled at. Pulling at 3500 is a high pull.

BASE 1519

[mccordia 73]

Quote

It makes sense not to have them flapping around in the wind.

Are you steering lines so slack, that the toggles are dangling around?
Every canopy I've ever jumped in 3000+ skydives had the toggles firmly locked against the grommet/rings on the risers. Can't really see them 'dangling' on any setup unless you would actually need to fix/shorten your steering lines?

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[OuttaBounZ 0]

This thread is getting kinda funny.

Just do whatever the situation calls for. Sometimes I'll unstow the yonkles and fly around a bit before unzipping anything. Why is it important to always do the same thing?

Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

[wasatchrider 0]

OuttaBounZ

This thread is getting kinda funny.

Just do whatever the situation calls for. Sometimes I'll unstow the yonkles and fly around a bit before unzipping anything. Why is it important to always do the same thing?

Ya but you fly a squirrel you should be unstowing your right yonkle while unzipping your left leg then go into a left hand turn back to the dz while you unstow your left yonkle and unzip your right leg. Then you can stow your slider unless it's before Labor Day then you have to stow your slider first!

BASE 1519

[johnmatrix 21]

I don't like leaving my collapsed slider at the top of the links when I don't have slider bumpers.
When I started wingsuiting I re-connected my canopy with slider bumpers on so I could leave it up there instead of pulling it down all the time, and have one thing less to do.
Since then I've changed it back, and pull it down.

For me these are the important parts:
1. Unzip arms
2. Check airspace / DZ location and steer with risers as required
3. Check cutaway and reserve handles are still where they should be
4. Unstow toggles and land

Undoing the legwing and collapsing / pulling down the slider are desirable between 2 and 4 - while being mindful of my altitude and hard deck. :)

[WickedWingsuits 0]

It has all been discussed before, also without a consensus.

http://www.dropzone.com/forum/Skydiving_C1/Instructors_F37/Never_Let_Go_Of_Your_Toggles_Once_Released_P3193708/

Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

[mccordia 73]

WickedWingsuits

It has all been discussed before, also without a consensus.

Indeed, and for many reasons, but not the on you mention on 'toggles flopping about in the wind'. If thats the case, I suggest visiting a rigger and having the length of your breaklines checked, as on every normal trim/breaksetting the toggles will end up hugging the grommit/ring on the riser.

Controlability and flying speed seem of much higher importance, than the 'floppy toggles' you mention.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[aOwl 0]

Whatever you do, my advice would be to complete all your after-opening actions (including slider collapse/stowage) above your hard deck. This may sound obvious but, since the subject is on the table, consider that with a wingsuit you are adding steps to your after-opening procedures and therefore under certain scenarios (such as a lower-than-usual opening) it is not impossible to forget about the slider while you put your attention on other things thinking you can stow it (if this is something you do) just before setting up to land. It could be too late.
Have a look at this example: http://youtu.be/m1TMqJLk4U8 this gentleman decided to touch his slider only when he was about to line-up for landing. He got himself into a spinning malfunction and ended up cutting away too low. Now, let’s not get caught up on how much better you believe you can deal with the situation in the video, what is important is to avoid getting into this scenario in the first place. Complete all your after-opening actions above your hard deck, if you cross it and you haven’t stowed your slider, then leave it un-stowed.
One thing which you can do to reinforce this is to get into the habit of looking at your alti under canopy at the point where you cross your hard deck.
+O

[WickedWingsuits 0]

mccordia

***It has all been discussed before, also without a consensus.

Indeed, and for many reasons, but not the on you mention on 'toggles flopping about in the wind'. If thats the case, I suggest visiting a rigger and having the length of your breaklines checked, as on every normal trim/breaksetting the toggles will end up hugging the grommit/ring on the riser.

Controlability and flying speed seem of much higher importance, than the 'floppy toggles' you mention.

It is a phrase, you are taking it too literally. Thanks for caring.

Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

[OuttaBounZ 0]

Floppy toggle? I think there's a pill for that.

Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

[kallend 1,683]

I recall many years ago a fatality that involved someone releasing their toggles and then being unable to get their hands in them again.

Anyhow, since then I've made it a rule not to take my hands out of the toggle loops once I have released the brakes, and I release the brakes above my hard deck on account of another fatality when a very experienced jumper (Jan Chandler, I believe) delayed releasing the brakes until around 1,000ft, then had a toggle hang up due to incorrectly stowed brake line tying a knot around the riser.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lurch 0]

Kind of surprised an experienced skydiver let that happen to her.

I once popped my toggles only to have my (properly stowed I might add) excess brake line (which wasn't -quite- the exact same way I was used to seeing it...) throw a knot around my finger. Securely tying me to the canopy and creating a nice built in right turn.

I wasted maybe 20 seconds trying to free my hand, recognized the futility of trying to untie a knot one handed under tension where as soon as I let go of the other riser to try to untie it, it started spiralling, bailed on the whole idea and went to plan B: lace the other fingers through the line around the knot so it can't come loose unexpectedly, then fly the thing to the ground, very carefully.

A Sabre1 has enough extra flare to land standing from a half-braked approach. Sweet!
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.