Tony-tonysuits 0 #1 March 20, 2012 Apache suit owners, Today in testing, we've found that the pull strength with the auxiliary handles we've shipped out recently on our Apache model wingsuit can be higher than the TSO standard. We recommend you NOT use them. Tony TonysuitsLife is a series of wonderful opportunities, brilliantly disguised as impossible situations. tonysuits.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 61 #2 March 20, 2012 What kind of Apache? What kind of handles? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tony-tonysuits 0 #3 March 20, 2012 they are a thumb loop on the outside of the suit, attaches to the cables of the reserve and cutaway,Life is a series of wonderful opportunities, brilliantly disguised as impossible situations. tonysuits.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #4 March 21, 2012 The following from DZO John Hamilton: We recently had two jumpers show up at Skydive Elsinore with Tony Suits new Apache Wing. The suits came with auxiliary handles (Thumb loops) which attached to both the cutaway and reserve cables and were routed through slits made in the jumpsuit. This was designed as Tony Suits new Apache Wing-suit actually covered access to both the cutaway and reserve handles. This obviously posed concerns as it could of been a violation of the TSO testing which each rig manufacturer has to go through with the modification and usage of the Reserve Parachute. When we pull tested the equipment, we found that the pull test resulted in forces exceeding the TSO testing standards of 22 pounds. Upon contacting Tony Uruagallo of Tony Suits and shared this information, he immediately conducted further testing and found the same results when the thumb loop were attached and issued the following statement: Apache suit owners, Today in testing, we've found that the pull strength with the auxiliary handles we've shipped out recently on our Apache model wing suit can be higher than the TSO standard. We recommend you NOT use them. Tony Tonysuits Fellow DZO's, please be on the lookout for anyone jumping Apache Wing Suits with the usage of Auxiliary Handles (Thumb loops). There can be mod's done on the Apache Wing-suits from the manufacturer or qualified rigger which places the handles in their original configuration and accessible to the outside of the Wing-suit"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teigen 0 #5 March 22, 2012 Shouldn't these kind of features be tested under different circumstances and configurations and be proven 100% reliable BEFORE the product goes on sale? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vezina29 0 #6 March 22, 2012 cause this is parachuting...not bowling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teigen 0 #7 March 22, 2012 Typical american response... No substance, no logic, no intelligence.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 737 #8 March 22, 2012 TSO'd wingsuits. Coming soon to a gear store near you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #9 March 22, 2012 Quote TSO'd wingsuits. Coming soon to a gear store near you! TSO, no need. Using your customers to test your modification to their life saving last chance safety device.? Good thing it is only a recommendation that you don't use it instead of DO NOT USE IT. That way it is OK if you want to.Not such a good idea.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #10 March 22, 2012 QuoteShouldn't these kind of features be tested under different circumstances and configurations and be proven 100% reliable BEFORE the product goes on sale? Maybe people should have tried to use the product in methods not originally intended. It was always designed as a BASE suit.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 737 #11 March 22, 2012 Sounds like we should have "USPA Wingsuit Instructor" ratings program so the young up-jumper who is being led to believe that jumpin a wingie is cool! Just like another jump! You can make one easy squeezy! Mad skillz brah, it's all good. is instead lead down a path of proper instruction in the gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 737 #12 March 22, 2012 Maybe young up-jumpers need more guidance in their gear selection due to a lack of knowledge. I firmly believe this needs to be made aware more direct to EVERY jumper. TS should notify USPA and all forms of jumper information via the industry publications and parent governing bodies worldwide. If someone burns in this way ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 737 #13 March 22, 2012 If it was designed for BASE, why the need for the handles THAT COME WITH IT TO USE FOR SKYDIVING??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #14 March 22, 2012 Any idea how many (factory) modified Apaches are in the field? Presumably TS has contact details for every customer with modified suits and has contacted them personally? Still, they should contact the NGBs and publicatons as you say. Nothing to stop people contacting their own NGBs as well. The BPA has been made aware of the issue and the info should have been disseminated down to all DZs by now.Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 737 #15 March 22, 2012 Presumably? You good with that? I give. I don't give a shit. I don't jump those damn things anyway. carry on. I'll stop worrying about people surviving this sport. This damn place doesn't care anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,408 #16 March 22, 2012 Quote Quote Shouldn't these kind of features be tested under different circumstances and configurations and be proven 100% reliable BEFORE the product goes on sale? Maybe people should have tried to use the product in methods not originally intended. It was always originally designed as a BASE suit. If Tony had stuck to his guns and kept it as a BASE only suit, this wouldn't be an issue. As soon as you start offering factory mods to let customers skydive it, you can't say it wasn't intended for skydiving. And if you design those mods, you should probably do some testing on them before you release them.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #17 March 22, 2012 Quote If it was designed for BASE, why the need for the handles THAT COME WITH IT TO USE FOR SKYDIVING??? Whilst designed for very experienced Wingsuit pilots, surely one would still be advised to explore the flight envelope of a new suit with as much altitude as possible i.e. from a plane, rather than from a fixed object.Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #18 March 22, 2012 QuotePresumably? You good with that? I give. I don't give a shit. I don't jump those damn things anyway. carry on. I'll stop worrying about people surviving this sport. This damn place doesn't care anyway. "Presumably" is a polite British way of suggesting that is one of the things that should be done. No, I'm not good with it, which is why I forwarded the details to my NGB to ensure it was disseminated,even with the small chance there are modified suits in the UK and the people jumping them aren't intelligent enough to realise what a bad idea they are in their current configuration.Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 737 #19 March 22, 2012 nice. Simply don this death suit and we'll teach you about BASE. This sure is one fucked up sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
splat123 0 #20 March 22, 2012 I don't base, but would'nt it be a really bad idea to test jump a new suit in the base enviroment ? The base jumpers I've met do lots of practice jumps from planes with new suits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunnelfly 0 #21 March 22, 2012 QuoteWhilst designed for very experienced Wingsuit pilots, surely one would still be advised to explore the flight envelope of a new suit with as much altitude as possible i.e. from a plane, rather than from a fixed object. This was exactly the reason why these two guys showed up at Skydive Elsinore. No.1 reason NOT to be an astronaut: ...You can't drink beer at zero gravity... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #22 March 22, 2012 Quote If it was designed for BASE, why the need for the handles THAT COME WITH IT TO USE FOR SKYDIVING??? Oh, and some BASE rigs have cutaways.Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 737 #23 March 22, 2012 If you can pull the handles anyway..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnmatrix 21 #24 March 22, 2012 I know this is unlikely to occur but wouldn't the best solution be to let BASE jumpers jump their BASE gear on these skydives? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #25 March 23, 2012 QuoteI know this is unlikely to occur but wouldn't the best solution be to let BASE jumpers jump their BASE gear on these skydives? Perhaps you should study FAR Part 105 Section 43www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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