Stop the preachin', start the teaching...

[JerseyShawn 0]

Everyone can bitch back and forth about the whole canopy incidents thing that is going on. Not much will change. I've been reading these forums for about a year before I made my first AFF, then joined up. Reading back 10 years or so, the same canopy problems and threads still arise to this day. Some will take warning, others are already set in their downsizing crazed ways. Nothing will stop them (obviously).

Us youngins (low jump numbers, not age) are the future of this sport that you old timers perfected as well as you could (making it safer). Maybe beating it into students heads early, not only how to learn, but
WHEN to learn new skills will change things over time. Not only on DZ.com but verbalize it at the DZ. Like teaching a pup good habits early to curb bad behavior later on.

Be proactive as possible. Tell students (we all will always be students until we can't learn anymore) to have someone watch every pattern and landing, critique them. If they're doing well consistently, add a new skill to their skill set. Teach them to encourage other students to take a safe path on how to obtain new skill properly. Let them know its respected to be safe and you'll get farther going slow. And what they crave to learn will be waiting for them at the right time.

We have an upcoming canopy course I've been itching to take. Hopefully Ill meet a few sub-50 jump jumpers. Im going to try to organize an on going accuracy contest we all can get in on repeatedly/frequently. Last out, pull at slightly higher altitudes than the previous jumper and perfect set up of patterns and landing in different conditions (Ill ask the best way to set that up so two people are fixated on the target the same time).

For me, learning to fly right is important, but my main focus for the beginning of my career is learning my canopy. My canopy will be my bitch, not the other way around.

Any other ideas that I can ask about at the DZ that would help youngins be better/safer properly are welcomed.

Before my first jump I thought I wad crazy for being interested in jumping (reading the canopy threads previously). After my first jump I knew this is where I want to be. Still reading the canopy incident threads, I still think Im crazy for pursuing this. I fell in love, Im here, and Im going to try to make it as safe as possible to enjoy hopefully 20-30 years from now. Call me a stupid no nothing youngin, but Im going to strive to make things better for my future and others in this sport.

Slow your roll peeps and "Change the future culture" that I am. Be safe, teach safe.

[jrmrangers 0]

Well said Shawn

Wait , I pull what first?

[labrys 0]

I'm probably not going to articulate this well, but here goes:

The problem isn't the teaching. It's the assumption that you will be guided through the process and guarded from mistakes. There is no doubt that instruction and mentoring are important tools but the really critical aspect is assuming personal responsibily and taking proactive measures regardless.

People who exhibit destructive behavior don't always need additional nurturing and training. Many times they just need to be shown the door.

Owned by Remi #?

[labrys 0]

Sorry: issues with my phone. I wanted to either continue my post or edit it, but I can't do either so I will continue this way.

What I'm trying to express is that when the expectation level reaches the point that you expect someone to herd you along, I believe there is a problem. The majority of "old timers" I know do exactly what you are asking for. The majority of youngsters who continue to ignore them get hurt and hurt others.

The answer isn't to complain that the "old timers" should stop preaching and start teaching. The answer could well be that the youngsters who are dangerous to others be asked to leave.

Those who are questionable but not willfully destructive should get more attention. That attention should include more instruction in the reality that unless they take a more proactive role in deciding whether or not they should continue, they will face consequences.

It's one thing to spend time and effort to help someone learn to fly and fly accurately and handle problems. Most people will do that.

It's another thing to expect people to spend time and energy trying to change the behavior of an asshole.

Owned by Remi #?

[diablopilot 2]

Preachin' is free, and if listened to and received well, often teaches lessons for free.

Teaching costs money.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[popsjumper 2]

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Preachin' is free, and if listened to and received well, often teaches lessons for free.

Teaching costs money.

Learning the hard way costs lots more money.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[skybytch 259]

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Teaching costs money.

AH, so that's what I've been doing wrong. I should have been CHARGING people for my knowledge all these years instead of giving it away like the old farts who taught me did.

[diablopilot 2]

You miss the first part of my post?

I've got no problem sharing the knowledge freely, I do have a problem with people not wanting to listen because they don't like what they hear, but then berating you for not being helpful.

Example: Novice, can I jump this Velo?
Me: you're not ready, so how about I show you what you can do to prepare on your current canopy.
Novice: You're an asshole, you just want to hold me back!

Novice: Can you show me how to head down?
Me: You're not ready yet, but lets show you some valuable relative work skills that will translate to freeflying.
Novice: You're an asshole, you just want to hold me back!


That attitude is why "coaches" (often those that have no instructional rating nor any instructional experience) can get away with charging $60 a jump.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Scrumpot 1]

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That attitude is why "coaches" (often those that have no instructional rating nor any instructional experience) can get away with charging $60 a jump.

Just to clarify - I don't think any coaches (themselves) are actually charging $60/jump, are they? More likely, what you refer to is the DZ charging $60 for a "coached jump". I've yet to see a DZ that actually pays a coach any more than maybe just $10-15 MAX of that, and some merely only "compensates" the coach out of that, rather instead by "covering their slot".

Trying to avoid any "coaches" out there, from potentially getting mugged this weekend now is all!

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[billvon 2,400]

>I don't think any coaches (themselves) are actually charging $60/jump, are they?

I know coaches who charge $300/day for coaching alone (i.e not including slots) so that's not out of the realm of possibility.

[Squeak 17]

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>I don't think any coaches (themselves) are actually charging $60/jump, are they?

I know coaches who charge $300/day for coaching alone (i.e not including slots) so that's not out of the realm of possibility.

Yup, I asked a guy what he charged for coaching his reply, $50 per jump plus slot, others on the DZ were $30 plus slot

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[mjosparky 3]

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>I don't think any coaches (themselves) are actually charging $60/jump, are they?

I know coaches who charge $300/day for coaching alone (i.e not including slots) so that's not out of the realm of possibility.

I am not smart enough to learn $300 worth of anyting in one day.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals