flipwithit

to sum up whats below c2 vs aura (because i was never a c1 fan) pros -more nimble -more intuitive -less demanding physically -faster acceleration and higher top speed with an AMAZING flare. cons -noticeably slower starts comapred to the aura yet still good. -sustained glide ratio isnt as good, however the speed generated is potential for insane temporary glide for separation before pull time. sustained glide is still very good. the c2 is a completely different animal compared to the c1. i did less than 20 jumps in a c1, before the aura came out, and never felt as comfortable in that suit as i did with the c2 after 1 jump, or the aura for that matter.. the c2 feels, to me, like a faster, more nimble aura with an easier flare/dont have to be as aggressive with it to get a monster flare. also easier on the shoulders. its downside, compared to the aura, is SLIGHTLY less glide and a slower start in the base environment, not much but noticable. one of the most noticeable characteristics is the acceleration of the suit. when flying with my buddy in our auras, im able to pull away from him at a steady pace (yeah im fatter than him.) when im flying the c2 i instantly put a sizeable distance between us and then continue to pull away. the c2 is my new go to skydiving suit, but im not a flocker type, i wanna go fast and carve hard! i have production c2 on the way and a funk for shenanigans. production c2 has a back vent on the tail so its gonna be interesting to fly the c2 and funk back to back to see how they both play.

no issues with my squirrel in skydive mode. learn your system and how it works. i wish people hadnt burned the inside harness/outside handles system from tonys first apaches, that was my favorite. dont jump a rig that doesnt fit you or a system you dont understand.

^ this. i havnt flown a swift, but have seen a couple people on the plane that are very happy with theirs. but what is making me a return customer to squirrel is their customer service. my aura was delivered in 28 days (2 weeks quicker than they first estimated) they emailed me to tell me it was going to show up sooner. everything about the ordering process and contact with the company was what you would expect when you hand someone your money. they are even there for you afterwards. i had a street landing with my aura (base opening, still zipped up on the legs when i landed) and caught a light tail wind that i had to run out and the ends of the tail took a beating. i emailed squirrel before my drive home and received their reply about 20 minutes later. i sent in the suit that day and was flying it again, good as new, 7 days later...they did not charge me for the service (minor fix yet made the suit unairworthy) and even paid for return shipping!

fpm?

the fact the stabilizers are being added is saying something about how it performs without them. no one is saying the bootyless wont turn without trying to kill you. it can just turn a lot faster and more precise, and the addition of these stabilizers prove that point. i cant wait to give my viper a spin with them. also, where does the viper stand now...is the venom power suppose to be the quick/nimble big suit and the viper the floatier one with the huge airfoil?

they are removable/replaceable. waiting on mine in the mail.

from their website Inside the pants at the knee, we have added a Velcro enclosure which anchors the pants to your leg, reducing pant-leg wobble and increasing control and performance. This is one of the most crucial features of the SUMO, giving the pants a more precise and solid feel when maneuvering in high speed tracks. -i have flown at least 5 pairs of PF track suits and only 1 of them didnt require some sort of washiness to sort out. heard its the case with other brands as well. given, with time in the suit it becomes a non issue. ive been in extreme sports my whole life, when taking things to the limit, you want as few variables to deal with as possible. i see this as like setting up suspension on a motorcycle. you dont just get a bike with crap handling and are told to deal with it even though you get tank slappers every bump you hit. you/they figure out the setup so you dont have to deal with it. Shredex: pretty cool your idea went somewhere!

...i hope that guy chopped and went for those clouds.

+1 on the havok if grippers give you peace of mind, then sure go for the ghost. but the havok is THE complete package for partying with other wings.

proper post jbag n nick only thing to add, and its echoing what someone else has said here, squirrels success is only going to make PF and Tony better as well. they have a big step to take to get me back though. squirrels quality is only beat by their customer service, which is 5 star, first class, etc etc. tony and PF are fucked in that category.

to stay on topic real quick... no word from "in the scene" friends about 2's here. but in my opinion venom is definitely due for a revise seeing how it never really touched what tony was doing with similar sized wings in the first place. also the v5/viper need a revised tail, which i have seen pictures of an idea they are working on, which is what i am currently doing to my viper. think vertical stabilizer on a plane, but not on the burble side. the feet sticking out of a suit is drag, but it also provides stability in turns, and the better you utilize those stabilizers, the more control you have. viper/v5 have nothing sticking out so all stabilization is from input from pilot. if that was a good idea, high performance planes wouldnt have them either and the planes that dont have them wouldnt fly without all the computers. to your post... the viper is a bad ass suit in its own right. dead air starts arent quite as good as the squirrel, but once it gets inflated, it auto pilots to over a 3.0 glide ratio. 32 second flight from 2000 feet and 40 second canopy ride (800 foot pull) because i didnt want to have to deal with possible line twist over where i was heading (still no line twist with viper.) that said, glide ratio with numbers you posted would put things in perspective. fall rate in the teens means nothing if you are just using the biggest wing out there to fall straight down. my sustained 3.5GR in the suit was with a ~40mph fall rate and a buddy in my old apache x said he was working hard to stay with me. come pull time, when i flare the suit, i know that thing is falling slooowwwwwww, but not really going anywhere. i fucking HATE the handling of the suit. a quick left input in the shoulders/arms requires a 80% equal counter with the feet or else the ride begins. ghost/havok wasnt really a game changer, i do belive the ghost 1 was before the S-bird. dont get me wrong, if you are jumping out of a plane wtih the intent to fly with other people, in all kinds of orientations, i think the havok/ghost is the best suit for that. for the less than 200lb club, tonys smaller suits SUCK! P3 > R bird and under havok > S bird v4/5 is in a class of its own venom < everything its size viper needs a new tail but cruises with the rest of the sight seeing suits. i wouldnt use it to bomb terrain because of the tail, but i would bomb all day long in any apache. i was never a fan of the colugo but the aura does everything....EVERYTHING and it does it just as good or better as everything out there. never flown a swift, but i hear for its size it plays in the havok/ghost arena.

I don't remember that at all. Even when the P1 first came out, every wingsuit instructor I knew agreed it was suitable for FFC's. well we all have different experiences now dont we... in lodi, i was able to do my FFC in my p2 because the gti/prodigy/whatever intro suits were too small for me. ffc-i tried to get me into those suits despite the other wingsuiters who would track or fall with me putting in good words. for the record...i have no issue of p2/3/swift for ffc

i remember when p2's were considered borderline FFC suits... just had a friend do her first flights in a swift...didnt hear anything negative about it.

thanks for the replies guys... ron that trick definitely works pretty good. im just more into getting all my cold weather gear on as we taxi. in back of the 182 i see my breath all the way to altitude on a cold morning/day. however i think i found what i was looking for. snowboard pipe gloves.

been using receiver gloves for normal jumping but not warm enough for tandems and the very warm gloves are just too bulky for gearing up, handling yonkles, hand cam etc. what do you guys like

*not reading any of the replies no. my fast exit is right foot on the strut/step and turn into the the wind as i leave the plane. climb out exit is left foot on the outside corner of step, right foot dangling, and launch underneath strut, into the wind. you wont hit the prop...because you shouldn't aim for it. cesna pilot should be able to get air speed down to 50 at the most

well if you look at what kinking your elbows does to the airfoil, it creates deeper camber which creates more drag but also more lift. speed will be used to create that lift. id rather a 3:1 gr at 120mph than at 80mph.

this website got the full on ~15 minutes it took to blurt that out as fast as i can. im not gonna sit here and think for a internet post. the motivation behind it was so i could send the many people with questions a link rather than texting each individual about the suit. ill shorten it for you though...3 jumps in the suit and its already, without a doubt, the best suit ive flown. "3 jumps in a suit, you cant figure out a suit in just 3 jumps. dont talk about what you dont know" well 3 jumps in, its out performing everything ive spent time to dial in. cheers

i want to start with the fact that i was not impressed much by the colugo in comparison to what was already out there. ive flown a couple different colugos and enough jumps on them to know it wasnt something i was willing to buy when i already had a wingsuit i was very comfortable in. ...so i bought an aura. im a gear nerd. ill buy the latest and greatest and off it at a couple hundred dollars loss just to know for a fact i do or dont like it. i dont horde, i keep my favorite. havok for partying and then a business suit...which is now an aura. i caught a bunch of flack for my early viper impressions, but i stand behind my feedback still. if i was half as impressed with the viper as i am the aura in just 3 jumps, it would have been a completely different post. i have many more jumps in my viper and it still is not growing on me. its a suit that requires counter input to the tail to be able to make a mellow turn without things happening that you dont want to happen. yeah i can get aggressive with it now but it is not confidence inspiring to do so and would not want to experience what a slight mistake would result when base jumping the suit. okay, to the aura. ill start from square one, dealing with squirrel. great, another waiting game after emailing the company...NOPE! email response almost immediately. i think the longest i waited was 12 hours. i made a request on a thread color they dont stock and it was taken care of with out a hassle. suit went into the que 10-11-13 (to my knowledge) and was on my doorstep 11-13-13. not to mention any names, but this one company that rhymes with foenix-ply wasnt able to get a viper to me before i got my aura and i preordered in march! the one ive been flying was one i purchased from leading edge wingsuits (awesome people, i highly recommend working with them if you see a product they have that you like) so awesome customer service, including updates on your order, tracking numbers, etc....you know, stuff that a company who has thousands of your dollars should do but is way to unfamiliar for some reason in our sport. my girlfriend and i took the measurements using their guide...measure twice, err 6 times submit once. suit fits perfect. first flight could not have been more satisfying. inflation seems moot to mention nowadays because i have yet to fly a wingsuit that doesnt go "bang" once you open up from a plane...but it was definitely 3 full pressurized ram air chambers once those wings opened up. first thing i did was wiggle around in the suit a little bit, just to get a feel. then a little flare, a 5 second dive and then a big flare. next a sharp input both left and right...feels good. my buddy i jumped out with is now below me so i shut it down and move next to him (hes flying a venom) without having to think about what im doing. i wanted to go to him, i made some adjustments and there i was. i think the word for that is intuitive :). we cruise together for a little bit (i get bored with flocking stuff so a little bit to me is probably 10 seconds) and then notice the group we gave 10+ seconds separation to and decide to after burn it towards them. i mach to them with ease, slow it down to say hi, then pealed away for some more learning...diving turns, top speed sharp turns, stalling, and max glide...ohhh max glide was easy! mostly due to beta received, but required no effort. point your toes, relaxe your knees and slowly add the arms. before i knew it my flysight was shooting mid 90s video game lasers into my ear (victory tone fore the preset glide, which i set at 3.5) and held it until i got bored of that! jump 2 i decided to do some flocking with the guys. im not really sure what their plan was but when i got there it was a colugo setting the pace with some v4's, another aura playing around and my buddy in his venom. i was able to stack a few feet above the base with no issues what so ever. super stable with more lift than my nearly 200lb tequila drinking self needed. chilled in the middle of things for awhile til i decided it was time to try some new things. jump 3 went very similar except for a top speed run. my buddy i fly with a lot has seen me walk away from him in my apache many times...in the aura he said it was depressing to see how fast i put distance between us where as he said he had hope when i was flying the apache. i did everything from diving carving turns, diving as hard as i can to turning as quick and hard as i can, stall to head down barrel rolls, sustained max glide (which was nothing but impressive,) and it did it all with out a fuss or even really trying. i described the tail end of a viper like trying to drift on ice. well the aura in a turn feels like a motorcycle on rails. those who know me, know i speak very highly of my "pre production apache x" well that just got replaced. edit: i feel like i need to add that "without really trying" doesnt mean just laying in the suit and wishing. im pretty well versed in the suits out there, p2, ghost, havok, x1, x2 apache x, apache, rebel, jedi, colugo, v4, venom, viper...jumped em all. definitely not ninja status with all of them, but i know when a wingsuit feels right for me. what may be intuitive to one person may be a flying rubrics cube to another. this is the best suit i have flown to date, and it took a couple years to find something to replace my previous suit.

so i took the time to figure out how much i should lengthen the suit with a rigger buddy and we came up with 3 inches! i was jumping this suit without shoes on or in those vibram 5 fingers and still a tight fit. after adding the 3 inches the suit is night and day difference...the initial post can be tamed down quite a bit but its still a suit i have a bit more respect for than any other suit ive flown.

send me the suits...ill do the experiment :) in my apache x, 3 GR is easy and 3.5 sustained in favorable weather conditions with out much thought into the body position. x3/rebel will carry those glide ratios at a slower speed (my experience.) from what i have heard from close friends about the aura and seen in videos, it is the fastest starting suit i have ever seen/heard from friends first hand or eyeball experience and 3.5 GR achieved pretty easy. even after putting a few flights on a colugo, im holding out from jumping on the squirrel band wagon. i invested in a viper. im getting glide ratios im stoked on but just posted a thread about the rest of that...got myself into something crazy here.

250+ p2 jumps 300+ apache/viper jumps ~50 jumps on everything in between (x1/2 colugo rebel blah blah blah) ill start off with i havnt received mine that i ordered but did pick up one that fits about the same as my apacheX (fits tight) that i throw around like a rag doll, maybe just a tad tighter fit. i feel like i need to post this because this is honestly the only suit i have ever been scared of beyond the first flight (out of the airplane that is.) my first 2 jumps on this suit were out of a balloon which were dead air to max glide flights with a gradual 90º turn here and there, which the nature of this suit was very apparent after those turns. the suit did not seem like it was anything crazy though and could not wait to take it out of a plane...however the next 5 jumps out of the plane were nothing but a handful. things got out of control a couple of times. only for a few seconds at worst and more than recoverable, but the suit did not do what intended as my experience with the same inputs given with other suits im very current and not current on. the first plane exit with the suit was just like any other first jump on a suit. exit closed and square and open symmetrically. everything went fine. the terminal exit felt funny though and after making a 90 off jump run and going for max glide, for whatever reason i could not hit the glide ratios i was getting out of the balloon my first 2 jumps. and did not sustain the glide ratios i was sustaining out of the balloon on any of my plane flights. the first flight was all glide ratio nonsense and second jump was intended game on with wingsuit shenanigans. this is when shit got scary. after exit/inflation and initial flight up jump run, i hucked this thing into a turn super hard like i were to carve around some awesome terrain and instantly the tail whipped around on me like throwing a rear wheel drive car into a turn and finding black ice. no control, no grip, no nothing. i had to use as much arm input as possible while applying a counter turn with the tail to gain control. the tail had no "grip." so about 5 seconds and however many feet of head town tail spin later i started to gain control. my nerves were a bit on edge after that because i have never experienced anything like it. in my apache, my favorite thing to do at brake off, when flying with friends, is to flare the crap out of the suit and then wing it over into a head down corkscrew, in full control and knowing i can pull out of that maneuver whenever i please. the rest of the second jump became diving the suit hard and maintaining control....that was interesting and even after hard dives, i could not get sustained glide ratios that i got out of the balloon. 3rd and 4th skydive i worked on less aggressive turns using my same technique i have used with every other suit i have flown with good results yet still feeling very washy with the tail. i felt after initiating a turn i was forced to immediately start countering the turn without achieving the style turn i wanted. was feeling a bit better on the fourth jump and went for an aggressive turn, but not as aggressive as the one in the second jump and it still sent me into an unintentional wing over - head down spin. 5th skydive i took some advise from another and more experienced viper pilot. i started entering turns with my shoulders while inputting a counter turn with the tail and finally felt enough stability to make faster turns, but nothing i would consider aggressive. but i was seeing the light. i have been told turning with your hips works as well but havnt tried that yet and was told it will not put you into an aggressive turn. my last jump on the suit was a balloon jump from 2000 feet. i pulled high because i was making my way towards houses and power lines i did not feel comfortable pulling over. given the time under canopy, and a 20 feet per second descent rate under canopy (info from neptune 3 from doing hop n pops with the canopy,) i pulled at 800 feet and still had a 32 second wing suit flight. my flysight is set at 3.5 and it was pegged the whole time after finishing the start arc til i reached my hand back for the pc. achieving glide performance i never could match from the plane...blows my mind but whatever. im use to flying my apache x which has a much thinner air foil. looking forward to hearing more experienced pilots thoughts. they arent joking about 400 big wingsuit jumps recommendation on the PF website for the viper. i know its a handful for every other viper pilot i have talked to (shit, look at the footage of miles daisher flying past the jesus statue....holy shit) and then a big name going in wearing this suit, supposedly unstable to impact. do your're homework with this suit before BASE people. my apache and havok will be my base suits until i feel as comfortable in the viper as i do those suits, and i expect that to take much longer than any suit i have BASEd

good post wicked. voilsb...100lbs and 200lbs is pretty dramatic seperation...that said i know 120lb girls doing ffc in a p2 that my ~175lb frends have used for their ffc. ive laid plenty of wings on top of one another in my day...my biggest wtf moment was when my buddy's rebel who is 5'7" 160 had 95%+ the surface area the demo we received from tony which fit me fine and im 6' 190. not to mention the people that get stuff off the classifieds that they either squeeze into or fit like 50 gallon trash bags. so if ya ask me...wing loading isnt much of an issue, but it still effects the performance of the wing and would be something fun to know. and yes ive busted out the tape measure :)

i think he means more like what he said...wing loading. a 120lb person is going to have more suit to deal with than a 180lb person even though its the same model suit. i think he wants to hear a v5 is as good for a heavier person as a p3 is for a lighter person. i have wandered why wing loading has never been taken into consideration with wingsuits though.

just received my viper....got 1 jump on it out of a balloon this morning and got nothin but smiles. glide monster, requires very little input for desired effect...except to dive it. gonna do some airplane action tomorrow so more info to come!