chuckakers

And even if it does come out, does he think that an unconscious landing under a reserve loaded at 2:1 is going to be survivable? That's another interesting angle in this if we require AADs; in the case of people with high reserve wingloadings, are we actually making them any safer? (Then again, I do know lots of people who load their reserves quite highly who choose to jump AADs... I guess the theory is that some chance is better than none at all...). I don't know the numbers, but the rate of descent and forward speed of a loaded up reserve with the brakes set may not be fast enough to kill a jumper and maybe not even cause serious injury assuming the landing is on level turf. If the jumper is wearing a hard helmet the results might be a lot like drunks in car crashes. They are so limber (like an unconscious jumper) that their bodies handle the impact like jello, avoiding injuries that a conscious person often has. That said, I'm not recommending tiny reserves and I'm happy to see PD (and others?) taking the lead on marketing up-sizing possibilities. I do find it ironic how some jumpers staunchly defend some safety strategies while completely ignoring the horrific possibilities of other choices. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

That's what Tom Piras said. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

I'd say those people lacked proper training, proper ongoing training, or both. Where I come from there isn't a single jumper - student or licensed - that believes they should ever rely on their AAD over their own actions. That is trained into their brains from the first time they put rigs on their backs. Out of curiosity, did those 3 jumpers train at or jump at the same DZ? Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

Maybe you didn't see the debate raging over here - http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4730639#4730639 My point in conducting the poll is to have folks tell us their position on the issue and defend it the way positions are being defended in the linked thread. Which brings me to my point - you posted on a thread asking if you use an AAD and why, yet you posted nothing on the issue. Do you jump with an AAD? Why or why not? Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

That was the answer I was looking for when I mentioned not knowing what the life limit was. Not sure if I agree with your notion that manufacturers were trying to ground all canopies from the acid mesh era. I seem to recall the specific lot numbers of affected mesh were identified, effectively clearing all other canopies from suspicion. Am I remembering correctly on that? Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

A recent incident involving a highly skilled jumper who didn't use an AAD and died on a jump in which one may have saved him has prompted a spirited debate on the use of AAD's on that thread. I thought this might be a better place for this discussion. I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I read a lot of very interesting perspectives in that thread and would like to allow folks to go further into the topic without hashing it out on a thread that is supposed to be dedicated to a specific incident. So do you use an AAD? Why? Do you believe they should be mandatory? Why or why not? Do you not use one? Why not? The poll allows more than one vote since it's asking 2 unique and specific questions. Please be respectful but honest. Let it rip! Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

And then sat there for the next 27 years or so without getting a wash. Riggers might be eager to attack it with pull test clamps and see how it fares now! And a Phantom 22 is even in the Low Speed category of C23b, not exactly the toughest of reserve categories, with National preferring a gross weight of 155 lbs max. So the pool of eligible users gets pretty small. I admit that I didn't catch the acid mesh comment, but if it's legal (all required processes conducted) and passes pre-repack tests so be it. Not saying I would jump it but if everything is in order and it's legal I know people who would. As dumb as that sounds to some let's not forget about the AAD, no-AAD conversation current raging in the incidents forum. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

Doug - what are the rules on reserve canopy age these days? I know several guys that would buy a round reserve in like-new condition with no jumps as long as it's legal. Same with the main and container - especially at the right price. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

While the technology of this rig is way behind the times that doesn't mean it won't sell or can't be jumped. The container and main are just fine. With so few jumps it should truly be in like-new condition. The reserve is another story. Not sure what the rules are these days about reserves "timing out" but if it's still legal I'm sure there's a rigger out there that would pack it. The market for this rig is extremely limited - especially given that it's for a smaller person - but it is there. I personally know a guy who is still jumping a Swift System that he bought new in 1985 and it works just fine. So yes, there is a market for it. Lets's not forget that there are still jumpers out there - especially old schoolers - who have no problem with round reserves and 7-cell F-111 mains. If it's airworthy as described and the price is right, someone will buy it. Just don't expect to get much for it. Anyone willing to buy it will be wanting it for the price vs. mileage ratio. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

I'll probably catch hell for this but yes, in my experience most canopies are quite forgiving of minor imperfections like you mentioned. I spent years as a "trash packer", knowing what I could get away with and what I couldn't. When questioned I would remind folks that every pack job is a trash pack the moment it comes out of the deployment bag. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

Or Mile High could take on a lawyer as a business partner. Free legal representation will fix this forever. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

Ya know, it might not be a bad idea to extend an olive branch. maybe she'll get hooked on skydiving and come on over to our side. Or she could use the opportunity to suffer a "back injury" on landing and open the door to get even in court. There are limits to keeping your enemy closer when your enemy is a moonbat. My advice would be for Mile High to upgrade the DZ security system and hire a guard during overnight hours. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

http://www.timescall.com/longmont-local-news/ci_28163472/judge-rules-favor-mile-hi-skydiving-longmont-noise Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

Do you have a facebook account? That is a great place to look up folks from the past. I personally know Rocky is on there and I would bet Mike is too. I never met you dad but I certainly know of his contributions to skydiving. I started jumping in 1985 and was the 4th AFF graduate at my DZ. My wife made her first jump in Deland in '87 and Rocky was her AFF instructor. We'd love to see old photos, log entries, etc. There is also a facebook page for old skydiving stuff that is very active. If you scanned some photos and posted them there I'm sure they would be a big hit. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

As a casual hp observer these days I find this topic as entertaining as it is educational. As our evolution continues so does the introduction of new issues. Bouncing slider? Never heard of it. Well you have now, old man. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

Funny, I have a friend that designed and built his own canopy when he had 40 jumps with no education in aeronautics of any kind. He borrowed my PD Excalibur, took measurements all over it, and proceeded to build an improved version call The Stealth. 27-cell design. Early testing was done by tethering it to the back of a pickup truck and opening characteristics were tweaked through a series of hop n pops test jumps. After that he took it to terminal and continued jumping it for several hundred skydives. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

Thus insuring that everyone will be at the same place and the same altitude often at the same time or just seconds apart. Brilliant. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

I think that jumper is up for a Darwin award at some point. You are spot on with your assessment, John. Hell I can't even remember the last time I looked at my altimeter while tracking. On a similar note, why the hell did we start teaching people to use an altimeter under canopy and while setting up for landing? We've bred a generation of skydivers who are spending their canopy rides reading numbers instead of watching for traffic. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

What 6 month stretch? Where in the manual or the FAR's does it say anything about a 6-month stretch? The FAA says that if installed, it must be maintained according to the manufacturer's instructions. If a rig has a 12 year, 3 month old Cypres2 that has met all Airtec's maintenance requirements and the reserve was packed within the last 180-days, it is legal to jump. If the Cypres2 is older than 12.5 years or the reserve was packed more than 180-days ago, it is not legal to jump. If I put a Cypres2 that has 30-days left in it's lifespan into a rig, then that rig is legal to jump for the next 30-days because it meets al the requirements of the FAR's. i.e. reserve packed within 180-days and AAD maintained according to the manufacturer's instructions. Derek V If I remember correctly, when Airtec put a 12 year life limit on the Cypres, the question came up about repack cycles. People were upset that they might get screwed out of some time on their units, so Airtec added a policy that said if the unit was in date (at that time 12 years 0 months) when the reserve was repacked it would be legal until the reserve timed out. That's what I meant when I referred to a "6 month stretch". I briefly scanned the Cypres manual last night and didn't read anything about that. Either it's been changed over time or I was just remembering incorrectly about the original policy. Anyone remember if it was originally a 12 year limit with an extension for packed units? Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

According to the manual, the warranty period (i.e. the life limit) is 12.5 years. Mark The life limit is 12.5 years - at a maximum. Covering the unit under warranty for 12.5 years doesn't mean it can be legally packed up to the 12.5 year point. However, I made a quick check of the Cypres manual and didn't see anything specific about packing a unit beyond the 12 year mark. It may well be that the legality of packing one past the 12 year mark is not specified by SSK. Anyone have info on this? Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

As long as everyone is splitting hairs here, let me do the same. The repack cycle is 180 days, not 6 months ( I wish it was 6 mos as that is far easier to keep track of ). CYPRES says ( I believe ) 12.5 years which = 12 yrs 6 mos. The could be a few days difference. Jerry Baumchen That doesn't split any hairs. My point is that regardless of how much stretch beyond the 12 year life limit the manufacturer allows the unit to stay in the rig and regardless of the repack cycle, it is my contention that once the unit is 12 years old it can no longer be legally packed into a reserve. BTW, 180 days is always less then 6 months, so the repack would always come due before the 6 month AAD extension expires, even if it was packed on the day before it timed out. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

I haven't read how the 6 month stretch is worded but my common sense would tell me that it's spelled out that the AAD is legal if packed BEFORE the 12 year limit and then times out after it's packed, and NOT legal if packed AFTER the expiration date. I doubt the manufacturer would word the 6 month stretch clause as legal for use if packed after the 12 year expiration. My guess is if you pack one at 12 years and 1 day for a "regular" you have not performed a legal pack job. Keep in mind that the 6 month stretch only applies to units that reach the 12 year limit during a legal pack cycle, not before it's packed. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

So those riggers are falsify the packing card (official document) by knowingly putting a packing date on it that is other than the actual date the reserve was packed? Pretty sure that's blatant violation. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

Well go figure. I've been jumping a Vigil for years and didn't know that. Guess I should have read the manual beyond the on/off procedures! Never too old and crusty to learn! Thanks for the info. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX

I didn't know a Vigil could give jump data. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX