RhondaLea

By virtue of being responsible for this idiotic thread...because he-who-started-it was allowed off the hook as the threadowner of record...I volunteer to take the two weeks time off in 515's stead. And if it does happen that someone actually gets the bright idea that he should really take a vacation from the board...you can be sure I will take those two weeks with him. As to the anal probe... Never mind. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I know who it would bother, and I'm telling on you, if you don't cut it out. Enough! is enough. It's annoying enough that we got moved to the Bonfire, and my name is right there up at the top, in the stead of he who started the whole thing. For you guys to turn it into...this...is just downright humilating. It was a nice little nonsense thread that hurt no one and made at least three of us laugh out loud, and look what you've done to it now. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

That being said, I'm still enjoying Out Rage. Thank you, Avery. rl

Oh, and Tom, you left out Skin's initial post which started all this silliness in the first place. My sentiments exactly. Skin will be unbearable now that he's pulled off this little coup. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

N/A

Maybe it is. Or maybe it leads to a certain sense of complacency--"it's just another skydive"--which then leads to some stupid, senseless mistake, that leaves the survivors shaking their heads saying, "WTF?" I don't know what to say. You may be right, but every friend of mine who has died these past ten years has been quite current, thank you very much. And in the absence of the last few year's issues of Parachutist, my personal statistics say that currency doesn't seem to make a whole helluva lot of difference. rl

You sound so sure. Boys, boys, this thread was supposed to be a thank you to Avery. Sheesh! I'm beginning to feel a thread hijack waiting to happen. rl

Someone has to walk me down the aisle. Who better? You owe me a new keyboard, Dennis. I spat darjeeling all over this one. I'm going back to the high diving kitty now--Baby sees herself here and thinks she famous--but there are other, better avatars to come. Hugs n pictures, rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

It takes both, salted with attitude, to develop JUDGMENT. The issue is not experience or knowledge or any one attribute, individually, but the way they all combine to hone one's ability to evaluate and act on the various situations one encounters. I don't care how many jumps you have or how much you have studied, if you can't put it all together in a way that keeps you and those around you intact and breathing, everything you know and do is worthless. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Just wanted to add a second to what Nick wrote. Mike is always willing to accept feedback--he's very good at listening to opposing points of view, and he has even been known to solicit them from time-to-time. But he is still the publisher of a news magazine, and if someone brings him publishable material, asking him not to print it is like asking him to cut his own throat. He can't publish what isn't submitted. If there's a problem here, it isn't with Mike, it's with the person(s) who submitted the photographs. rl

Totally and unequivocally agreed. But what should be is not what is, and in that regard, your position is correct but impractical. Let me know when you've figured out how to herd cats. You can practice on Baby. How's that hangover comin' along, dear? I am completely and utterly wrong, and you are totally and absolutely right--you said so, so it must be true--but the next time I have to tell you can't talk about my friend that way, the only pipe I'll be crackin' is yours. Edited to add: Also, you again forgot the . after Ms. For the nth time, bring a camera. rl Edited to add: What would you do without me?

Having attended various kinds of meetings like this in the course of my career, my professional recommendation is that anyone who attends should work from written comments that you have presented to the board ahead of time. In other words, write a letter, send it, and then make your oral comments brief but to the point. Don't get sidetracked and if you can't help but ramble, consider sticking to a written statement. Most important, address only the issues that the board is considering--do not bring in any extraneous information. If you had had more notice, I would have suggested soliciting donations to retain legal counsel just for the purpose of attending the meeting. It's admittedly a load of horseshit, but even for that, dragging along the hired gun always seems to work with these kinds of entities. For some reason, it persuades them to take you more seriously. rl

I want to take back my "no" vote. I just read a thread--and had a discussion earlier today--that convinces me the chit-chat is overwhelming the technical discussion to the detriment of everyone--particularly the younger jumpers who are coming into the sport with too little skydiving experience and too little exposure to the old, ugly guys who are all scarred up because they learned the hard way. Something is not being passed on, and it's a lot more than attitude. I have never in my usenet/internet career made a technical post--in spite of the fact that some of the brighter bulbs in parachuting have expended inordinate quantities of time on my education--and I'm not about to start, but sometimes the stuff I see on these forums really wipes me out. Back in '95, my ability with words led a whole bunch of young jumpers to write to me for advice. As if. So I would explain to them that I knew not of what they spake, and would then request their permission to forward their queries on to someone who had actual expertise in the area of what they wanted to know. I don't see a lot of that here. It's the blind leading the blind, and the guys who know what they're talking about get drowned out and even ridiculed for what they write. These are not people whose voices will cry out in the wilderness for long--most of them are more inclined to shrug and say, "Fuck 'em." The arguments that go on here--all of them--parallel the history of skydiving so closely that I emailed the oldest skydiver I know a few weeks ago and said, "You gotta see this thread. You're not going to believe it." Okay, my point after all that is this: there needs to be a place where the technical questions can be asked and answered without being hijacked. I don't know the best way to do it, and my only real idea involves a lot more work for Tom, but this is ridiculous. And more than ridiculous, it's dangerous. And frankly, every time someone dies, a little bit of me dies too, so from a purely selfish perspective, this post is nothing more than self-preservation. rl P.S. to the smartest guy I know: this one's for you, darlin'. A thing is not necessarily true because a man dies for it. - Oscar Wilde

Then I think there have been two incidents, not only one. The '96 incident resulted in wet gear and no injuries--at least none so serious as to preclude he-who-forgot-to-pack from jumping the following day. His companions, on the other hand, lived through a couple of rough hours I wouldn't wish on anyone. rl Some people are so fond of ill-luck that they run halfway to meet it. - Douglas William Jerrold

You forgot the little dot that follows "Ms." Dumbass. rl Edited to add: Given your response below, in the event you make good on your Lame Harpy threat, you, not I, will be paying the drycleaner for the drapes. There's a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore looking like an idiot.

Fickle bastard. I got my copy on a sad, sick, rainy day. I was miserable, but cheered up immediately when I got the mail. You can't even quote yourself accurately. You called me an idiot, you idiot. Best exercise some caution, or I'll sic my new boyfriend on ya. Will you ever learn not to lead with your chin? There. All better. In spite of the nonsense above, this really is intended to be a thank you from me as well. Truly well done. Kudos to Avery, Jimmy and Jerri, and their all-star cast. rl edit for thread title ~TA If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I thought you told me you've never asked a chick out--you know, they just kinda swarm around like angry bees and haul you off? Just take off your bra, dear. Someone once said to me, "You have weird friends." I suppose that's generally true, but you are the capstone of my career. We're way off topic now, and you've only just gotten out of jail. Please go mangle another thread, before Tom feels compelled to revoke your parole. These have been two very boring weeks on this board--and I'd prefer not to live through two more like them anytime too soon. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

You've been locked up with the dogs too long, m'love. I don't think it's me who's constipated. ;) And Tom did mention in another thread he thought you're going to 'splode. Next time Dennis gets to DeLand, we'll have a beer in your honor. Then, if it pleases you to send pictures of the large marbles and scars, we'll endeavor to line up some ports for you. Hugs n orifices, rl

www.samspade.org

The answer to which is this: You tell the truth, even when it sucks. You face the truth even when it is so painful, you think it will kill you. Small fibs intended to spare feelings tend to turn into huge lies that hurt worse and do more damage than one tiny truth. Worse yet, a truth told after all the lies is never really trusted. The damage this does is often insurmountable. At the least, it accounts for a lot of yelling and tears and wasted time. How to keep it real is not complicated, Lika, but it is the hardest of all things to do. And most of us are bad at it. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I am really and truly sorry for being a dead horse beater, and I am not jumping on you, just on the generally accepted assumption that underlies your totally innocent comment. It has nothing to do with understanding BASE or whatever activity it happens to be. It is about understanding that if you love someone, you don't try to take from them the things that make them happy--even if it means that one day one of those things might take them from you. You own one life and you control one life--your own. Any other lives entrusted to you are for loving, nurturing, sharing, enjoying, but it is never for you to determine the road those lives travel. It is only for you to be grateful that for at least a time, you were able to share the road. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

No career in couples counseling for you either. Sheesh! Tom. You're usually brilliant. Y'know, we all know that it is human nature to be somehow...better...at the beginning of a relationship. Everyone does it, but some do it...more. Still, the signs are always there, if one is not so besotted as to ignore them completely. The woman who made her ex-boyfriend/husband quit bowling because it took too much time that should have been devoted to her/the family is no different than the woman who cries danger about BASE, skydiving, iceboating, you name it. It's not about the risk of the activity, it's about control. The guy a woman falls in love with comprises all that he does and all that he is--not just certain parts. And unlike his really weird personal habits or strange ideas about the world which never come out until it's way too late, the activities he chooses are right out there in front from the beginning. The change from acceptance to objection is about having grown more confident about one's power to force another into line, not about loving someone. I know non-skydiving wives who pack for their husbands--and one who even accompanied her husband, cheering all the way, to his first Bridge Day. I know a non-skydiving husband who periodically goes to the dz for the day with his wife. Sure they worry some, but I don't think any more so than the wife whose husband drives in commuter traffic every day. We protect our children because they are not cognizant of danger, and that is, indeed, loving behavior. As soon as you start treating your lover like a child, though, you need to take a look at yourself and ask yourself why you need that kind of power. And if someone is trying to control you, you need to realize that it will never end with the first thing you give up, because it's not about the activity per se, but about the ability to control what you do and when you do it. Sorry. This is just one of the last really raw nerves I have. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Only one? Kinda chintzy, dontcha think, Nick? Get him three. But that's the critical issue. This is dz.com, so those rules do apply even to this forum. Tom does a great job--better than most of the moderators I know--and, IMO, he enforces the rules here with a very light hand, in spite of the accusations made by a biased few--you know who you are--who project bias on him. Dopamine will fix you right up for that hand tremor. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

IMO, you need to speak to a lawyer. I'm not saying you should retain one, because this may only be a blip. But you need to get some legal advice. I don't know how it is in your state, but in most places I've been the consultation is free. Sometimes it's better to be completely cooperative, and other times cooperation backfires badly. That's both a professional and personal opinion, btw--I've worked in two criminal practices, and my daughter spent five months in jail. But being informed can only help you, even if you finally decide to go along with this little exercise. rl

The current thinking leans towards "nature" much more than "nurture." The evidence--particularly the twin studies--begins to indicate that personality is hardwired. rl