Ion01

Oh, you mean like the option to get fined hundreds of dollars if you choose not to have healthcare.......such great freedom! Or like the option that puts private healthcare under such strain and regulation they can't possibly compete with the government so they disappear (the house always wins). Freedom again????

if $5000 went to the dealer, where exactly did the other $19,000 go? if it costs $19,000 to hand out $5,000, what are the admin costs of a government/public/consumer option going to be? The other 19,000 goes to the cost of destroying the vehicles, moving them to get destroyed, all the paperwork that had to be completed, etc. However, the government hardly even includes such cost in thier estimates as knowone would have voted for such a plan if they knew it would actually cost that much per vehicle. For goodness sakes, they are currently claiming that the latest healthcare bill won't cost anything.....as if thats even possible. Its technically already cost us millions if you look at the salaries of the people writing the bills, the people campagning for it, flying thier private jets here and there to tell everyone how great it will be, the loss in advertising revenures due to these same people and obama getting airtime to talk about healthcare, etc. Once again, knowone ever considers any of this.....

The real issue here is that we obviously can't trust these greedy car salesmen and CEO who supply goods and jobs to millions! The only answer is to trust the government officials who make millions by taking our money through taxes. The only way we can survive this economic mess is to give more control and power to these perfect government officials who care so much about us! They have learned great lesssons from other great leaders of the world such as one's such favorite philosopher Mao who has made china such a prosperous and wonderful country. The loss of 70 million live is worth the cost of course. It is our great leaders who realize that "political power comes from the barrel of a gun." Obviously our capitalist system is a failure as evidenced in that this country had become the richest and most profitable in the world. Our healthcare system has been so destroyed by capitalism that even canadians want to know "where are we going to go for surgery" is obamacare gets passed. As you have shown.....government is the only answer....only they and thier purity can waiste billions of dollars for nothing more than an image. Only they can attack the rich while excluding themselves and hollywood from the "rich" steriotype. Only they have the answer as we are too stupid and must be "[dragged] to it...."

Yea, Mao and Hitler had a lot of great things to say.....???? mein kampf is really just the inspirational story of a man who worked his way up from nothing to being the leader of a country. Its about overcome great odds and opposition....

So is the chart BS which shows what obama's stimulus was to do versus actual? Obama saying that if it passed unemployement wouldn't go above 8 percent even though its at almost 10 is BS? Sure, don't address the facts ....just call names, always a good tactic. And no, they don't address hoovers policies because that is not what this particular study was about, that would be a completely different study. Once again call names and instead of finding the paper yourself, which it is available, you make more statements without facts to back them up. Once again, the right wing conspirousy...... That would be a different study. How about I supply you with another great right wing conspirousy site that talks about how great hoover was! http://blog.heritage.org/2009/09/02/hoovers-big-labor-policies-caused-great-depression/# Or, like the chart referenced regarding obama and the stimulus, they compare actuals with predictions made by the fdr administration itself. But you won't know exactly what was being compared because you didn't find the study for yourself and, like with the chart I posted, you ignore the info and the explanation and call it BS and claim its right wing propiganda when the data is actually comparing actuals to the obama administrations predictions. FDR was elected in 32 so why go back much farther particularly when the crash in the market that marked the beginning of the depression was in 1929. Also, remember that you continue to ignore that the 20's were roaring despite a crash that was bigger than the one marking the beginning of the depression. The obvious difference is the government involvement in the later on.....but that doesn't agree with you so those facts and I must be part of the right wing conspirousy and probably a plant by fox to propogate these lies despite the fact that I am not a republican. So with tons of industries shutting down how is it that we didn't need a bunch of government programs to employ these people or a bunch of stimulus? The free market gave them cars and that gave them jobs and such. Not the government.....the free market. A couple years later we have the same scenerios of industries shutting down only now instead of letting the free market do the same thing it did a few years before, the government gets involved with spending and printing money and "creating" jobs and regulation and the market takes significantly longer to recover. What's so hard to figure out in this situation? Yep, didn't work under reagan at all! Just look at these facts: During Jimmy Carter's last year in office (1980), inflation averaged 12.5%, compared to 4.4% during Reagan's last year in office (1988).[95] Over those eight years, the unemployment rate declined from 7.1% to 5.5%. During Reagan's presidency, federal income tax rates were lowered significantly with the signing of the bipartisan Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981.[100] Real gross domestic product (GDP) growth recovered strongly after the 1982 recession and grew during his eight years in office at an annual rate of 3.4% per year.[101] Unemployment peaked at 10.8% percent in December 1982—higher than any time since the Great Depression—then dropped during the rest of Reagan's presidency.[98] Sixteen million new jobs were created, while inflation significantly decreased.[102] The net effect of all Reagan-era tax bills was a 1% decrease in government revenues when compared to Treasury Department revenue estimates from the Administration's first post-enactment January budgets. Such a failure! This is obviously from a extreme right wing propaganda site! Wiki! Are you serious? The government doesn't tax the people? So my money is not mine? The government can take all it wants because its not mine? Do you know what money is? It is legal tender! Do you know what that is? The point of money is to simply make trade easier. If I need a blanket and have wood but the guy that has the blanket I need has wood I can't trade the wood for the blanket. Now with money I can trade for the blanket money so he can go trade the money for what he needs and that guy can come trade his money back to me for wood. Its just a place holder for trading purposes! And its mine! The government taxes me and my goods and my stuff! Money is just a place holder for that stuff and even if its just paper its mine! If the government isn't taxing me then why do I have to keep giving them what is mine based upon how much I have! So what happened to all the "bush created the mess" stuff? The crash happened in 1929 thanks to hoover and government involvement! You keep missing that! Also, 12 million died over the great depression not just that time period and even that figure is speculative. It would have been far less if the depression hadn't been extended by government involvement. And if you die from skydiving we should abandon skydiving because it kills so many! Also, lets compare how many were killed in facist, marxist, and communist countries that were killed directly by the government not including their non-existant economies! Is that what you want? Do you really thing they are better? So because you agree with them and despite the fact they don't contain much fact they are objective...... remember wiki is obviously an arm of the republican party? Also, how is history itself not objective? Once again, more name calling and ignoring. I have shown you through history and my references how raising taxes is bad and lowering them is good. Also, a quick simple example is look at the state income tax map. Go look at the tax rates for each state and compare that to the economy of each state currently. The higher the taxes the worse off the state is with california and New York and Michigan being the most extreme examples! I don't think bush helped thing but once obama started passing this stimulus and stuff things plummeted. So, obama is a success despite the fact that is own predictions and figures show him to be a failure? So, you can't be truthful on your profile? Nice. Well, the country you listed has a lot of the ideas you profess so they are still a good comparison. Why don't you go there. If its so bad here why are you still here. Go there or to europe or canada or, even better, china! They have great redistribution! Or go to Russia, or even better, cuba! They have such a caring leader! Remember, unless you have been there you don't know how great it is! Anyways, I am tired or the typical unproven accusations of propiganda and such...and of the continued effort to not address the info or facts ......and I really need to get back to work. Later!

That chart is referenced by the heritage foundation but is actually what the obama administration put together to try and pass thier stimulus! You are arguing with obama's chart basically. And of course, if you don't like the info call it republican as if that changes the facts or numbers. Its all a vast right wing conspirousy and funded by fox.

[13]J. D. Foster, "The Tax Relief Program Worked: Make the Tax Cuts Permanent," Heritage Foundation Backgrounder No. 2145, June 18, 2008, at http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/bg2145.cfm. [14]Press release, "The Employment Situation: June 2009," U.S. Department of Labor Bureau of Labor Statistics, July 2, 2009, p. 1, at http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf (July 29, 2009). [15]N. Gregory Mankiw and Matthew Weinzierl, "Dynamic Scoring: A Back-of-the-Envelope Guide," NBER Working Paper No. 11000, December 2004, pp. 15-16, at http://www.nber.org/tmp/8655-w11000.pdf (July 20, 2009). (Later published in Journal of Public Economics (September 2006).) [16]Foster, "The Tax Relief Program Worked: Make the Tax Cuts Permanent." [17]Curtis S. Dubay, "The Economic Impact of the Proposed Capital Gains Tax Increase," Heritage Foundation WebMemo No. 2418, April 29, 2009, at http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm2418.cfm, and Curtis S. Dubay, "Obama's Dividend and Capital Gains Tax Hike Would Hurt Seniors," Heritage Foundation WebMemo No. 2433, May 11, 2009, at http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm2433.cfm. [18]U.S. Department of Treasury, "Treasury Conference on Business Taxation and Global Competitiveness," July 23, 2007, p. 15, at http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/reports/07230%20r.pdf (July 15, 2009). [19]William M. Gentry and R. Glenn Hubbard, "'Success Taxes,' Entrepreneurial Entry, and Innovation," National Bureau of Economic Research Working Paper No. 10551, June 2004, at http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=556538 (June 15, 2009). Here are the cites. Just call them republican and pretend that changes the facts.

Yea! How dare people have the freedom to pay others what they want to or higher and fire who they want! Freedom....who thought that would ever work? I mean, this country was founded on freedom and as a result has become the richest country in the world where even the poor have cars, TV's, houses, and microwaves! Its where people come from all around the world to get medical care! Obviously freedom is complete junk! The only real way to fight against the rich is to pay our money to some rich guy to fight the rich guy and call it a union. These unions won't let you quite your job when the employer or the union treat you poorly like you could before. In fact, we should make sure you can't even work for someone unless you agree to do whatever the rich union guy says! Sounds great! Or we can fight the rich, who supply us jobs and products, with a bunch of rich guys that take our money through taxes and take our freedoms......because thats whats best! We should follow in the footsteps of men like one of Anita Dunn's favorite political philosopher whom she turns to most often, Mao, and stop this rediculousness we call freedom! We may have to kill 70 million to do it like he did but isn't it worth it? Besides that would be 70 million less people destroying the world through thier added carbon! It would be a win/win scenerio!

You cant just state something as fact without with no information! Seriously, look at the numbers and the facts and stop making dogmatic statements without facts! The reality is under clinton unemployment was at approximately 5% due to reagans term in which he reduced unemployment and reduced inflation(which is insanely high right now) through, among other things, tax cuts! At 5% everyone talked about how great the economy was but they forget that there were several drops in the stock market that were bigger than the great depression. However, clinton did what was right which was what was done in the 1920's when there was a crash bigger than the one in the great depression.......he did nothing! The economy recovered on its own with little actual impact! As soon as bush got in office everyone talked about how bad the economy was because of 5% unemployment not realizing nothing changed. At the end of bush's term he did damage things with bailouts and such. Of course we got more of the same with obama and things have crumbled under his direction! He has the same policies as FDR who actually made the depression great! Look at the UCLA study. Look at the facts! Why is it that places like oklahoma where the taxes are low and there is little government envolvement we have sustained or grown our economy but in states like california or NY or Michigan which have high taxes and policies like what the feds have and are passing they are crumbling? How can you ignore such blatant evidence and abandon the facts for dogmatic statements? Look at the communist contries that control thier economies like ours is attempting to do. Look at the countries that "redistribute the wealth". There economies still don't come close to the wealth of the poor in this country during a recession! We became rich through freedom not communism or marxism which is exactly where the feds are going. They like murders such as Mao and Chavez! Do you not see what is wrong with that? They have abandoned the constitution long ago despite the fact that the constitution is what made this country the great country it was. It was why people from all over the world came here! It was freedom that drew people from everywhere and made us all rich! How can people have a car and TV and not consider themselves rich when they could be walking miles with a bucket to get water like they do in other countries!

Just listen to the lies by fox! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADo1WbgWnBI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9Ibj4C38Hw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SbxhrF52SMhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUIfIDNYIL0&feature=player_embedded# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJz22rh17GI[url] How dare he play quotes from our government officials! How dare he use facts like that Mao killed over 70 million people! Mao and Chavez are great guys who truely care about the people!?!?!?!?!?! Seriously! What ever happened to George Washington or James Madison or the CONSTITUTION! Do you think these people really got thier power over night? They are communist dictators who murder and kill for power and money and that is who our government looks to and wants to become like! How can people continue to ignore this? This is not speculation or opinion.....It is the words of or leaders! Obama wants to fundamentally transform america! His words! Anita Dunn said she turns to mao most often and that he is one of her two favorite polical philosophers! Then there is Cass and all the other czars, some of who call themselves communist revolutionaries! They call themselves that! They are not hiding and they are telling us exactly what they want and people continue to ingore them. Not ignore me or glenn beck but they ingnore the words or obama and cass and anita and jeff jones and van jones ect..........

Fox news called Van jones a Czar to!! Just lies after lies! Lets remember that one of two of Anita Dunn's favorite political philosophers is communist and dictator Mae Tse Tung who killed million and millions of people!........oh....wait.....she was just joking? Sure!....only she thinks about him all the time and is the one she "turns to most!"

Why not make a check list, lamitate it, and check each item off with a dry erase marker as you get ready. Don't get on the plane until every item has a check on it. I don't have AAD but I do this with my large rc plane. It has to be assembled and there are items that must be check regularly for maintenance purposes as well as standard check such as if the elevators are moving the correct direction and such. There is a lot to remember and I forgot some things such as a bolt or something a couple times. It didn't cause a catastrophy but it sure worried me when I found out. I also use a check list for astrophotography. There is a lot of equipment to bring and a lot invovled in the setup and if you miss one setting or something you waiste hours of photos only to find they are crap once you get home and download and process them on the computer. A check list is simple but it works.

Besides, fox has yet to either completely ignore facts or events like other stations because it might not fit their agenda or clip videos so they can falsely report:http://patterico.com/2009/08/19/msnbc-guys-carrying-guns-to-rallies-are-racists-especially-this-guy-whose-skin-color-we-will-now-proceed-to-hide-from-your-view/

All this in the face of the fact that temperatures have been dropping the past 11 years! Every heard of the solar cycle? Earths temps follow it. Ever heard of the roman and midieval warming periods? It wasn't carbon that caused it! So if you have been wondering why they have been so forceful when it comes to global warming I think the agenda is clear! Oh....remember, people that don't think the world is going to end due to global warming are just fear mongers and holocaust deniers!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BjF5XQ4TAo&feature=player_profilepage

Also, JohnDeere, how dare you use such a extremist news station for your info. Just look at how slanted they are compared to other's" 'As for Dunn’s complaint about Fox News’ coverage of the Obama campaign, a study by the Pew Research Center showed that 40 percent of Fox News stories on Obama in the last six weeks of the campaign were negative. Similarly, 40 percent of Fox News’ stories on Obama’s Republican opponent, Sen. John McCain, were negative. On CNN, by contrast, there was a 22-point disparity in the percentage of negative stories on Obama (39 percent) and McCain (61 percent). The disparity was even greater at MSNBC, according to Pew, where just 14 percent of Obama stories were negative, compared to a whopping 73 percent of McCain stories — a spread of 59 points…"

How dare you use facts like that! or facts like that in the UK a persons chances of dying from prostate cancer increase by 604% as compared to the US for for something as simple as an MRI you have to wait an average of 6 months in canada. This poor child is an obvious example of why everyone must be "dragged" to public healthcare and your freedoms must be taken away!

Well, everything you have there obviously shows that the UCLA study was completely wrong....... Why don't you do a little more research and look communist countries. Or lets look in the united states at places that do just what you propose like NY or California or the city of chicago.....they are colapsing!! When you tax the rich it hurts the poor too because the rich are paying the poor! Here are some facts about taxing the rich: Myth 1: Raising taxes on the rich will close budget deficits. Truth: Increasing the progressivity of the income tax code by raising the top two rates will not close the deficit. In fact, it will lead to more revenue volatility, which will lead to larger future deficits. Myth 2: The rich do not pay their fair share. Truth: The top 20 percent of income earners pay almost all federal taxes. Myth 3: The income tax code favors the rich and well-connected. Truth: The bottom 50 percent of income earners pay almost no income taxes and the poor and middle-income earners benefit greatly from the tax code. Myth 4: It is all right to raise tax rates on the rich-- they can afford it. Truth: Just because someone can afford to pay higher taxes does not mean he should be forced to do so. Myth 5: Higher tax rates in the 1990s did not hurt economic growth, so it is all right to raise them to those levels again. Truth: High tax rates in the 1990s were a contributing factor to the 2001 recession and returning to those rates will damage the already severely weakened economy. Myth 6: The 2001 and 2003 tax cuts did not generate strong economic growth. Truth: The tax cuts generated strong economic growth. Myth 7: Raising the top two income tax rates will not negatively impact small businesses because only 2 percent of them pay rates at that level. Truth: Raising the top two income tax rates will negatively impact almost three-fourths of all economic activity created by small businesses. http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/bg2306.cfm Seriously, look at your own country and how your policies have effected it! And you continue to miss or ignore the fact that there was a bigger crash in the 20's followed by a huge economic boom! The difference between this crash and the great depression: The crash in the 20's saw no government involvement in economics. The crash that became the great depression saw massive government involvement. And I am not going to link the info another time as you continue to ignore it. The obvious is that if the government will stay out then things will recover. The reality is that it was government involvement that caused this recession! They blame banks for giving out loans but the government regulates interest rates and who qualifies! They wouldn't let the banks forclose on homes but when they finally did there was a surge in the home market and they said, "see...we are coming out of it and its working." If all these things worked then why after all this stimulus and things has unemployment continued to rise? Why was it that every time something like the stimulus package or cap and trade was passed did the market immediately respond with a drop? The attached chart shows what obama's advisors predicted would happen with and without a stimulus along with the actual. It clearly shows that the stimulus made things worse! There own estimates shows that the economy would recover on its own in the same amount of time!

In the street of Detroit fight broke out between people fighting for a free ticket to Obama largesse that is virtually custom designed to act like a lottery … operating on pure chance to hand out Obama checks to 3,500 out of 65,000 who fill out the right form. Social service agencies are bracing for more troubles. The economic tsunami washing over metro Detroit swept its casualties to the doors of Cobo Center on Wednesday in the form of 35,000 people so desperate for help with mortgage and utility bills that threats were made, fights broke out and people were nearly trampled. City officials said a total of about 65,000 people over the past few days have gotten applications -- due next Wednesday -- for a share of $15.2 million in federal stimulus money to help people avoid foreclosure or quickly rebound from homelessness. Ultimately, as few as 3,500 people may receive the help. Here's a portion of Ken Rogulski reporting on WJR in Michigan, two people here in line for Obama cash. ROGULSKI: Why are you here? WOMAN #1: To get some money. ROGULSKI: What kind of money? WOMAN #1: Obama money. ROGULSKI: Where's it coming from? WOMAN #1: Obama. ROGULSKI: And where did Obama get it? WOMAN #1: I don't know, his stash. I don't know. (laughter) I don't know where he got it from, but he givin' it to us, to help us. WOMAN #2: And we love him. WOMAN #1: We love him. That's why we voted for him! WOMEN: (chanting) Obama! Obama! Obama! (laughing) There's more: ROGULSKI: Did you get an application to fill out yet? WOMAN: I sure did. And I filled it out, and I am waiting to see what the results are going to be. ROGULSKI: Will you know today how much money you're getting? WOMAN: No, I won't, but I'm waiting for a phone call. ROGULSKI: Where's the money coming from? WOMAN: I believe it's coming from the City of Detroit or the state. ROGULSKI: Where did they get it from? WOMAN: Some funds that was forgiven by Obama. ROGULSKI: And where did Obama get the funds? WOMAN: Obama getting the funds from... Ummm, I have no idea, to tell you the truth. He's the president. ROGULSKI: In downtown Detroit, Ken Rogulski, WJR News. So chicago was forgiven by obama (our savior)? What incentive do these people have to work and contribute to society? Its supposed to be all about society and not the individual.....right? Well, what are they doing for society except taking from others through things like this, welfare, foodstamps, and other such programs? Its not sustainable finacially or economically or in any way! This is marxism! And what did marxism bring humanity? Look at any country that has enacted these types of policies....they all result in economic collapse and dictators! I am not saying we are there yet or that that is the end goal of this administration but it is always the result.

http://www.noteviljustwrong.com/ These guys are obviously payed by the oil companies!

Here are some facts: http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate Also, in the 1920's the economy took a bigger hit than at any point during the great depression. Why didn't it turn into a depression? Because the government stayed out of it! http://www.meltingpotproject.com/mpp/2009/02/the-great-depression-of-1920.html

Compare the care in the US to countries like the UK! "Great Britain's National Health Service (NHS) was created on July 5, 1948. As with all government programs, bureaucrats underestimated initial cost projections. First-year operating costs of NHS were 52 million pounds higher than original estimates1 as Britons saturated the so-called free system. Many decades of shortages, misery and suffering followed until 1989, when some market-based health care competition was reintroduced to the British citizens2. Unfortunately for those requiring care, a mostly socialist health care system has problems. The articles and commentaries in this section identify some disasters caused by government intervention in the British health care system. " http://www.angelfire.com/...care/socialized.html In this link you will find far more examples of care being denied or other atrocities. If single payer is so great why do so many people come here for medical treatment? Why do we have so many of the best doctors and facilities in the world? Of course the link is full of facts so be very very careful!

Collation does not equal cause for starters.... They looked at cases where people had been shot. It would not be surprising to find that most people that were shot also had guns. Thats not a big surprise. Also, did they consider the situation of the individuals? If its mostly gang related or something like that then that statistic cant be applied to someone like me.

Those engineering chicks may not be hot but they are desprate!

Dude! I wear my lab coat all the time! Check Me out: http://d3xt3r.net/images/dexter1.jpg