Meso

I wasn't aware that you felt the need for the government to dictate what should or shouldn't be. The request for citation makes absolutely no sense in the context I used that. Your third paragraph also makes your first one null as you seem to understand that I don't mean 'supposed to' in a sense of what government dictates as what one is supposed to do. Wow, you really missed the thought process on that one eh? You realize that I'm arguing for the idea that religion SHOULDN'T be shoved down your throat (freedom from religion) and think no religion should be allowed billboard advertising space. So what you actually mean to say surely, is that I must complain about both Islam and Christianity if they put up billboards? And for what it's worth, I know at least here- Christian billboards line the highways in Johannesburg. Yet there was an an Atheist one, but it got removed. Because that's the way thinking is from most Christians, they may spread the word of God, but how dare someone express their desire to bring people away from God. I'd be against atheist and Christian billboards if that were an option, but since the Christians do it, it's only natural that they be opposed in similar means. It's a pity though that atheists don't hand out all their money to the churches though, so sadly it's tough to fund. Hahaha, hardly. It was the conclusion so easily drawn from your posts. And hardly in any way an attack. As much as stating 'you don't like things being shoved down your throat' to me would be an attack.

No one said anything about forced at gunpoint, nor did I mention church. I said a religious society, and you need only look at the religious demographics to tell that it is a religious society in both your country and mine. And since people expected to recite the pledge of allegiance (and in many cases forced), and it references God. Don't think you'd be too pleased if you were forced to recite something that praised Allah. As for freedom from religion, so you're disagreeing with that statement then? (I see no other reason to ask for citation) Good to know, now you can't complain when Muslims build their churches in your back yard or put up giant billboards promoting Islam. By 'supposed to be', I wasn't referencing any human rights, I was simply stating what makes some sense. Though it appears you support the idea of religion being shoved down your throat. Politicians may be sly and underhanded- but they're not stupid.

It's not merely political, it's highly religious too. And that's the problem, the two are intertwined. If it were not for religions hold on society this wouldn't be an issue. But religion is far too intertwined with politics for anyone who is not a believer to not be forced into a religious society. Look at everything from national anthems to money... Just about everything in society revolves around the idea that one must believe in God. And while I don't feel like getting into that whole discussion again, the point remains in clear view that it's definitely not 'no ones business', when they constantly have God shoved down their throats. It's supposed to be freedom of religion and freedom from religion, thus far the first part is pretty common. God is still everywhere in politics, making no one free from it, and rather bombarded by it. Once again, not a political issue since religion seems to run politics. Imagine the outcries to an openly atheist president, MY GOD! Just think of how many children he'll kill when he runs through the streets with his chainsaw and screaming his satanic words of evolution!

It won't be my business when Church and State are completely separated and when religious people no longer seek to ban books of science from schools. Then and only then won't it be other's business.

I gave you something, I gave you a whole reason why demographics prove that Christianity is passed from parenting or through social pressures and not through a sudden enlightenment... What do you want sources of to prove my point? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Prevailing_world_religions_map.png That tends to show it quite well, and if you can't work out the relevance of the discussion by viewing that, then you don't even deserve to be debating this.

If I am wrong, and only you will know. Maybe I merely expect too much from the way other people think.

I would say use logic to come to a conclusion, but I know how logic is the enemy to you Christians, so I shan't expect you to use it. You can argue that it's not true, but even you yourself will know that it is, despite the front you'll put on to try make me seem wrong. Religious ideals are pushed onto children in so many cases, and when it isn't pushed on by the parents it's pushed on by the schools and society. If this wasn't the case, religion wouldn't be so neatly packaged in geographic areas. If people came to be 'enlightened' by a religion by themselves then religions would be split fairly equally. Yet somehow magically, Christianity is more prevalent where it was pushed onto people and where it's been historically taught in schools as the 'right religion' and society. The same goes for Islam in the middle eastern countries. Or what, do you think that none of them have ever heard about Christianity? As for people taking up religion, I've gotten into a lot of religious conversations outside of the interwebs. And you wouldn't believe how many people use a line such as 'I just can't believe that everything is chance and that we just rot when we die'. More than half of the people who I've communicated to about Christianity, they've clearly shown that they find the Atheist form of death too horrid to want to believe, and so they hope and seek comfort in something that offers an alternative. One doesn't need a crystal ball to see this, merely a working brain.

Lives are over-rated. I traded mine in for a DSL connection years ago.

-narrows eyes- Converge I agree with, Asking Alexandria?! REALLY?! Not unless your workout involves hair straightening and putting on eyeliner. For heavy lifting I'd go with straight up hardcore or thrash every time... Hatebreed, Death Before Dishonor and Earth Crisis being the most intense. Hatebreed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnq6pCjAReU), Slayer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUDWLp1yIWw), Ten Yard Fight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38TbuQSw5js), Death Before Dishonor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDUa80YrTfI), Earth Crisis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn4QsRmm6Y0), Comeback Kid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdSYfNMKFfo) For everything else, melodic hardcore: Modern life is War (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm4O7arQFc4), Have Heart (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv8Zth1AvGM), Bane (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4s-jN4oDMY), Crime in Stereo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIw1Nqm7dLg) Or if you want to go Arvoitus's Black Metal route... Satanic Warmaster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBsjCk-WERI), Behexen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoicTieIEFs), Emperor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tccZs_veliA)

Actually, not true. While granted, chances are you won't become a believer through intellectual debate (who'd have figured with Christian's excellent strong points in making their case), most become religious not because of 'surrendering to God'. You'll see that in most cases religion is passed down from the parent to the child when they are young and naive. The way people become believers is typically the same way children become believers, they get so scared that Christians may be right that they are willing to go out on a limb and be religious in the hopes that they don't burn in this hell of fire for eternity and then the church brainwashing can be begin, because it just makes the thought of death that little bit easier. God doesn't require obedience and faith as much as he requires naivety and fear. On the other end of the spectrum you have reality, the non-believer world. While God preys on ignorance and naivety of small children to build up his faith, the non-believers on the other hand just want people to examine both sides. Considering most churches tell you to avoid anything that may 'lead you astray', how convenient- the ignorant will never see the truth if they're forbidden from looking. And you'll find most people who turn from Christian to non-believer did so after breaking the taboos of their religion and actually considering something else is possible and actually just looking. The more I think about the way religion works, the more disgusting it really becomes. And despite these oppressive, anti-exploration, keep your eyes ahead and don't look elsewhere tactics- Atheists are usually the ones called closed minded- oh the irony.

Ron is right in that quote though... If you're a Christian following the word of God and the bible, you WILL try your best to spread the word, it's what God asks of you as a Christian, it is your sole duty to try spread the gospel while living your life according to his teachings. Sadly that's just the way it is, those Christians who choose not to preach it and try convert people, they're not living their lives the way God really asks. It's why I don't really have a preference to Christians who preach and those who don't... They just better not moan when I take the oppositions side and try to get the other side of the story heard too.

To be honest I've never been into the S&T thread... I'm scared of what awaits... I'm pretty sick and twisted myself... but...but I've rumors... A doll every child will love...

Last time I checked pride was a pretty good human trait, rather have too much of it than none at all. And offensive? Remember that offence is taken not given. As for self importance, again... Isn't that the point in life, to mold yourself to be 'the best' possible? Or is that something you're supposed to strive for but never achieve, or if you do achieve it you're supposed to keep it quiet? I'd rather be arrogant than have low self-esteem thanks.

The last 2 are pretty natural traits. Everyone thinks they are right and those who disagree are wrong. I mean isn't that the point of believing something? Being sure that you are correct? I know I sure wouldn't want to be living a life where I thought my way of thinking was wrong and everyone else's were right. And considering not believing in God and believing in God are two very opposite patterns of thought. If you're on one side, you have to believe that you're right and the other is wrong. It's very nice in theory to 'respect peoples believes and not think that you're right and their wrong", but the fact of the matter is that's just an impossible way of thinking, the only difference is some people tend to keep their thoughts in their head, either to avoid arguments or come off like less of a dick. As for arrogance, arrogance is merely the outward portrayal of high confidence in what you believe and the willingness to express it. Whether or not these are positive or negative attributes is a different argument, but they're definitely 'normal'. I know I'm sure as hell more right than anyone else, if I wasn't sure of that- I'd change my beliefs and ideals so that I did feel they were the best.

That's what he said I mean... Figured some light hearted bonfire thread was a good break from the usual SC I'm used to. ;)

Originally I just planned to create this because creepy seems to be in every second thread title in BF at the moment.... But alas, bring it some substance... Post the creepiest picture you can find... And no, Sick and Twisted thread type content doesn't count. Do your worst /b/ BF.

Because those work all the time right? Out of the several people I know who have gotten pregnant, all were in the process of 'safe sex'. Birth control and condom both fail at times. While I think there should be consequences for actions, the consequences for those who choose to have unsafe sex and fall pregnant- I think having to live with the 'guilt' of abortion is more fitting than having them try raise a child in an unfit environment. In that case you end up with the child suffering more than the parent. I may be against human reproduction, but when it comes to those that are born. I believe in making their life and environment as kids as good as possible. It's why I don't drink or smoke, both of these industries tend to have huge negative impacts on the lives of children.

No one said anything about killing a child, just a fetus. Grab a dictionary and you'll notice there is quite a difference. Less killing a child, and more preventing a child from existing.

I'll have a go at any religion, but I don't go out of my way to start several threads in a short period of time with their basis attacking a religion and calling them psychos. If the debate is on the table, or if someone is stating things I disagree with I'll chime in. But perhaps I should begin posting news posts for every molestation a priest does and then continue to call that whole entire faith sick, twisted and disgusting based off that.

Didn't you know? Reproduction is a lovely gift from God, and children should be given to everyone to fill all their deepest loving desires. The limited space, resources and approach of peak-oil all mean nothing, long as you have that special little son or daughter, so that when you die you don't feel like your life was meaningless. The worst thing about children- they grow up to be adults.

As well as a prime example of why I support abortion.

Got to love the way Christian's always try to find ways to make their religion seem better than it is. They should consider becoming politicians- oh wait... Turtle: You asked for any Christian literature, you were provided with it. Now when you get it, it must be Christian literature that is deemed by some to be void because of when it was written? It's simple, Christians like to mould their religion to what they want it to appear as to make it seem less grotesque and absurd than it is. It's humorous because this whole ignoring the old testament things is really quite a new phenomena, but somehow people think that they know the religion better now that time has gone by. Maybe you're just not seeing the context right, or wait... Maybe it's symbolism for something else! Or are only Christians allowed to turn every negative aspect of their religion into a metaphor? Or just mark the whole lot as irrelavent because of how it makes their religion look... Do you selective read? And is it not getting into your head yet? Islam isn't the cause for the honor killings, it's culture. You're just so set on wanting to tear into a religion you're refusing to believe it, despite the evidence. (I guess that kind of thinking is just standard for Christians though). But religion has always been a scapegoat for one's actions, in the US they seem to like to blame Satan for school shootings, or crazies claim that God made them do it. Islam is just the religion in that part of the world that can be blamed for the actions to make them seem less harsh. You so coincidentally happened to skip the text another user posted.

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT) "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB) A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB) If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT) A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB) To name but a few... What's going to be your excuse this time now that your previous post failed in it's attempt?

The following scam has been reported: Click here to read more about these kind of scams. Remember: DO NOT do business with anyone who offers to send you payment for a higher amount than your selling price with the understanding that you'll send back the balance. Be suspicious of anyone claiming to be acting on behalf of a "client" or another "customer". Be suspicious of anyone claiming to be from Nigeria or West Africa If you agree to accept a check payment, then do not send anything, gear or "change" before the check cleared. And be careful, if you manage to clear a fraudulent check then you may be liable for the damages if the bank finds out later. Make sure your bank authenticates the check. If it sounds to good to be true, then it probably is.This username has been disabled.

I'd have better fetch a pretty penny. I have.... THE POWER.