Meso

I think it will be a lot easier to just state that every person of every race is racist. There are racists from both sides, the difference is in most cases people don't acknowledge blacks hating on whites as racism. Because of the way the world has in general been run by the whites (People, don't try to make that sound any worse than what it is), the effects of racism has been harder felt by non-whites. But it is pretty stupid when a black person can call a white any racist term and it's just a laugh but when the roles are reversed then it's different. A black calling a white a 'lighty' or 'whitey' won't get any shit, but call a black a 'darky' and it's racist. I understand what dreamdancer is trying to get through in many parts, but also think he is digging too deep looking for anything that could be considered racist and then saying that is racist. And most of it is large scale discrimination which slips under most peoples radar, which is essentially 'racist', but not in the way many interperate the word. Though I think things are more just bad politics than racism. For example, a common argument which is part factual is that black people are the source of most crime. This is true sadly, that's just the way it is (especially here where 95%+ of prison inmates are black). The reason for this is because they are the ones who are the poorest and needing to sell drugs or rob to survive (you'd all do it if it was your life or crime). BUT... Putting more effort into erradicating poverty would solve a lot. And many said the reason why there isn't more government spending or help going into the poor is because of racism. Now this is totally untrue, here in South Africa we have a black government who was voted into power by the poor, because of their false promises, but they still are hardly doing anything for the poor blacks and would rather focus on getting more money for their luxury cars, so as I said... Politics.

The whole racism card sucks. On one hand you have those who claim anything and everything is out of racial prejudice, and like to blame racism for their short-comings. Then you have those who think the only way to be racist is to kick a black dudes teeth out. Or call him a 'nigger'. I too live in South Africa so I'm well aware of both sides. Society as a whole is racist, whether one likes to admit it or not. In South Africa however you have the effects of Apartheid, and while I don't believe anything is a justifiable excuse for racism, many blacks in the country feel as though they were invaded, imprisoned and segregated- which is true. So now they feel as though they are owed something for being put down for all those years. And it's easy for a white person to say "They mustn't keep referring to apartheid" but if the roles were reversed and it was the whites who were oppressed, we'd be doing exactly the same thing. All in all through the years whites have looked down on blacks as a whole. You see a poor black guy and it's "Wow, typical bum...he should get a job", but as soon as you see that black guy driving a BMW it's "He probably stole that" or "I bet he got his job through AA". There is a constant idea that blacks will never be successful unless they are cheating their way there. It's either that or one gets jealous of the rich black guy driving the expensive car, thinking he doesn't deserve it. And you can deny these things but the reality is happens, not in everyone's minds, but in plenty who claim not to be racist. But I'm not going to stop with what the whites do wrong, then in South Africa you have the blacks who believe the white man mustn't run anything in the country because seeing a white man as a CEO is racist too! And that only companies which employ black leaders are not racist, despite qualifications- These people are also morons. Using race to gain positions they are not qualified for. It's no secret that people hire underqualified workers because they need that colour in their staff. Now you may ask why these black citizens are under qualified. That IS thanks to apartheid, as much as the whites may try to dismiss it, apartheid fucked the country up badly. Blacks were denied the same education as whites, and the segregation of the societies lead to larger groups of poverty which is why you have these crime issues too. If you are denied proper education and denied jobs because of your colour, you will not have money to pay for your child's education 10 years later. Now of course many of these previously oppressed black families can send their children to college, but they don't have the money due to not being qualified themselves during the apartheid years. And with these lifestyles of poverty come the 'ghettos' wherein gang activity is common and you are often surrounded in circles where you are pushed by peer pressure to neglect studies to join gangs etc. If we want a world of non-racism, we need more than just giving blacks the ability to vote, or walk on the streets. You need to get them to the same level of social wealth as the whites. Now many will say "They can do it now, they've got all the tools at their disposal, why should we help them.. us whites never needed a hand out".. And that's great if you want them to use the same methods whites used to gain wealth (invading the country, killing off everyone else and obtaining the lands riches). So unless you want the blacks to do that, putting more money in 'project' development and less into wars and other stupid shit would be the next best option. It's easy to bitch about crime and the way the poorer live. But it's retarded to bitch about it when you're opposed to the methods of helping them achieve the same level of success. I must state that I am no pro on Americans black and white divide, but I know enough to know there is a general racism (which there may well always be), not the degree that some may need to see before they call it racism. And that there is more of a 'disgust' of the people in the projects than there is of a desire to help them. PS: And in more regards to the actual OP. That can't really be construed as racism. There's lots of racism in culture and much bigger racial issues to worry about than bad jokes. Sure, the Tea Party people are complete morons, but I personally don't find the statements made racist.

In regards to respecting someone's beliefs, I don't believe in that at all- for a few reasons. Respect should be earned, and should not be mandatory for every single person. I don't see why I should respect someone's choice if I disagree with it, especially when it's a believe with a shitty history of supporting violence, bigotry and archaic thought patterns. But sure, I'll try respect religion when religion as a whole starts respecting gays, abortion without trying to dictate lives through laws. If one should respect someone's choices with an unbiased opinion. Then you should respect everyone's immoral choice no matter how disgusting it may be to you and give them the right to that. I'm not just talking about actions of religious conflict but any activity.

Ever stopped to think, just for a milisecond- that the picture you're looking at is not really a picture at all but an illusion brought on by a psychological need for comfort in life. Sure, you can walk through the halls of an art gallary but no brush can create what you see when you close your eyes.

Weed is bad for you, there's no disputing that. But guess what, cigarettes are far worse. Let's look at facts, I know a good bunch of guys who love their weed, and they smoke maybe 1-2 joints a day which is a fair bit when it comes to marijuana, but all these people can go a few days or a week without smoking. Then we have my other friends who smoke cigarettes, 1-3 packs a day, let's average it down to 25 cigarettes a day. Now 1 or 2 joints by the stoner to 25 cigarettes by the smoker... That's a lot more lung damage. And these guys can't go a day without a smoke. And there lies the major difference. I've had family members die from lung cancer caused by excessive smoking so I know the dangers. And cigarettes are far more dangerous, unless becoming slightly dimwitted and sloth-like is a danger, because that's basically weeds main effect. Alcohol is also more dangerous than weed. Look at studies on alcohol related deaths (and abuse if you want) and you`ll see it's far more of a danger to society than some weed is, because while it's true that you can drink responsibly, that's a null points when taking society as a whole into account. Let it be known I am against all of the above but weed should be far lower down on the list of the "OMG SUBSTANCE"s. I think one should be free to do as they please as long as they don't effect their children or others around them. It's just fucking retarded when you see people who smoke in front of their kids and get drunk in front of them go on about how weed is so terrible.

I think it depends on how she became an Atheist. If she was raised religious and then later in life examined her faith and saw that there is nothing there and truly believes there is no God, the chances she will become religious again are low. If she just sort of strayed from her religious teachings and now doesn't really think of religion at all then there is a chance she will be reunited with her past faiths as she wasn't enlightened at any point. I've noticed from speaking to a lot of older people that the ones who tend to become religious at a later age are those who were never religious to begin with, yet those who were brought up religious and then became Atheist, they tend to remain that way.

Dropzone.com will be undergoing maintenance this weekend on Sunday, 7 March 2010. The site will be down for approximately 2 hours, starting at 1 AM US Pacific Time (GMT-8).

You realize that this statement you made would generally be effective but in this case is worthless. I would have NO problem in letting Christians believe what they like if they stop preaching. Do you think Christians would also agree to that solution? They live the way they want and they don't go trying to convert people by threats of hell. Because they won't. If religion wasn't preached to the masses we wouldn't be having this conversation. Do I run into Christians and go "No no no, you can't live like that.. it's wrong.. do this!"... Well I don't, and I don't know any Atheists that do. I'd tell them "I totally disagree with you". But then end it at that. On the other hand Christians try converting constantly. And quite honestly it is a Christians duty to 'spread the word'. So they will never live and let live. So as an Atheist I have 2 options, either follow their path and defend my beliefs and try counter their spread of religion OR sit back and watch them continue to preach away regardless. There is no option for a loving Christian not to spread the message unless they want to see their loved ones 'burn in hell'.

Since you seem to be one of those people who correctly feel that religion is a personal thing and majority stray from the original teachings- do you not then agree with the topic that us Atheists and such have a right to not being preached to and judged based on our beliefs. The thread originally was not to say Christians are idiots, but rather to state that the world is run with the idea that it's okay to throw religion around and mix it into laws. If you want to follow your Gospels, go ahead. But I don't want them creeping their way into law making or into my life against my will. At schools for example, I think it would be okay to teach religion in an unbiased form. For example, teaching everyone the facts about each and every religion, then if they felt one was correct they could make a descision from there. Because currently it involves basically forcing 1 religion on them with the notion that IT is correct. Not to mention these places would be teaching the now almost standard views of the gay-hating God. Quite simply put we need a world that doesn't feel the need to exclaim their faith for everything. And rather one where they judge a person based on the way he or she influences others, because majority of Christians here are drunken, drug users and stuff. And as for everyone saying I`m bitter, I sure as hell am. Society as a whole disgusts me, hypocrits who try tell non-believers they are bad people when their lifestyles are 100x worse. As for the heart, well it is just a muscle- science proved which parts of the brain effect which feelings etc and nothing has been linked to the heart. Maybe this isn't a good paragraph to state this but let's not forget if the frontal lobe is stimulated in a certain way it can cause religious hallucinations (they believe this is what happened with Joan of Arc) and it's been physically tested and proven. Just proves even more how what we assume is spiritual at times may just be your brain lying.

@Coreece I`m sorry, but you must lack that thing called understanding. If you actually read more of my posts you would realize that yes I only care about living for myself, and that I don't feel the need to tell the truth for every situation because it's 'right'. As I stated, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. Now the rest you're just sucking out your thumb and is actually quite laughable that you don't understand what I was saying and yet try to confront it. I want to LIVE FOR MYSELF, as in not be a slave to someone elses rules or live for some god. If you read my other posts you'd know I hate people that look down upon the less fortunate and infact I try to help them whenever I can, but NOT because I am expected to. But because I want to help, and I get joy from seeing other people happy. So please stop misinterperating what I'm saying, nowhere was 'laughing at the less fortunate' even hinted at throughout my posts. In fact I'm pretty sure I try to make more of a positive influence on the world as this selfish bitter person than most Christians. But the same can be said about any action, ones apparent kindness may infact indirectly hurt someone. And I am aware of the 'Satanic Bible's teachings.. and in all honesty I agree with much of them (For the newbs out there, Satanism and Devil Worship are in no way the same and 'Satanism' as it were does not condone slaughtering of animals and such). Though I also think that trying to follow 'satanism' is stupid- I just happen to share some view points. The power of the mind is a wonderful thing ;) I'm not claiming Jesus as the devil or anything, the way I see it he was probably just some guy who was looking to add some peace to the world with teachings and things got out of hand. Regarding the homosexuality you mention that not all Christians believe that, and God doesn't state that in the Gospels. So the only thing I can really think of is that you are a lot different from every other Christian and I`m sure a lot of them would debate your validity as a Christian, as you seem to deny the bible and focus on the gospels, where as vast majority of the Christians all follow the book which was made up by a counsil hundreds of years later and would fight with you that the bible is right and your Gospels should be discarded now that the bible has taken over. Though it's always nice to debate with a Christian who doesn't get all bitchy about shit I say every second and instead tries to address it using their faith and reason... A worthy opponent ;)

So you don't deny that it's a heartless and selfish view. Good to know you've at least accepted it. I myself am a hard working tax payer and I don't bitch about the poor 'dysfunctionals', I should point out that dysfunctional is a very relative term. I'm sure there are equal rich dysfunctional, drunken gamblers. Besides it's not them that suffer it's the ones born into that environment. So unless you have a humane solution to reproduction you're not doing any good. Do you think your lack of support is going to stop the birth of people into a poor life? It won't do shit. You`ll only be damaging those who are born into the situation and actually you'll just feed the problem. I wish people would stop whining about having to support the poor, those who do can not complain about crime, EVER. Because I know if I were born into a shitty situation and all the stuck up rich people weren't willing to help I'd go steal from them any day. Essentially it becomes totally political, the 'ghetto' as it were, will not become better without HUGE government input. And that will require extra taxes- but in the end it's your choice, you can be stuck up and not want to help and have things get worse and worse (crime etc) or you can try be part of trying to erradicate the problem. Though with this said, the government will never be willing to put in enough, as what's needed. So unless you want to end up in a third world country like I'm in where crime is beyond epic, you may want to be a bit less selfish. Not everyone was born into a life of wealth and opportunity. Or... as I said, find a humane way to stop breeding- because your selfishness won't.

Quite simply put, Conservatives are selfish, heartless, uncaring and overall bad people? You're right. I like to spend my spare time wishing that conservatives who bitch about supporting the poor end up losing everything, so I can watch them cry to the rich for help. Oh no, right that's my bad- Who was I to think that child's life is more important than your big screen TV.

Which is exactly why the religion never 'took off' in terms of numbers until after the Roman 'Christian revolution'. I am well aware of the teachings of Jesus, and there are some good ones. That doesn't warrant him being the son of God being labled as truth. There very well may have been a wise man called Jesus who taught compassion and love. And by all means follow his teachings, don't try get others to by stories of hell or super natural powers. My point is that the basic ideas about Christianity are so ludacris that it would never be big like it is if it wasn't forced on people throughout time. Virgins being impregnated by spiritual entities? I mean seriously, come`on. I don't want to live for anyone I don't care about, nevermind doesn't exist. Spiritual minds lack the freedom of a non-believer. I love the ability to blaspheme the name of Jesus now. I am quite fond of lying too and other unchristianly things. I believe one should be free to do as one pleases as long as it doesn't hurt another. As I stated above, the things that make Christianity seem powerful are clearly bullshit. Christians often like to say that it's a metaphor. But then it makes the faith even less appealing to worship, what good is a god that can't do any magic tricks - Refer to second paragraph. How is religion anything like the internet? Religion is telling them to change who they are in many cases to please God. People mold their whole lives around it- gays feel guilty throughout life and even kill themselves because they think God hates them. And don't pull that "he doesnt hate them, he hates the act", that's just a sneaky christian was of sounding kind again while really dictating. The sad thing is I could prove how Christianity is crap, but I'd need 2000 years, an old civilization with archaic beliefs and about 10 friends who can spread a few lies. The problem with religions are that they are all so sure THEY are right, and yet each of them hold an equally valid (not very at all) argument as to why theirs are right. Maybe I should just join a religion to fit in. From now on I believe in the magical donut- and do not question my faith because I am right and if you don't see it, then you clearly aren't understanding my tasty donuts teachings.

Metaphorically speaking of course. Though I'll just get the laughing over and done with now instead then. ;)

Or maybe one that isn't still blinded by the bullshit he was fed throughout his life. Though I am neither a teenager nor do I claim to know everything. But I do know that which was taught to me is bullshit. It's okay if you are still following the crap fed to you and are not willing to open your eyes to reality... Really it is, that's your decision. I'll be the one laughing when you've wasted your whole life trying to please an entity that is non-existent, and I lived for myself. It all comes down to the topic at hand, one should be able to exist without religion being shoved down your throat as a child. Sadly we all live in a world where pride, gullibility and stubbornness overtakes logic and reason. There is no harm in letting people decide a religion for themselves when they grow up a bit... It's different when you feed a child religion, you could preach the teachings of a magic tea cup and they`d believe it just as blindly. The reason for a strong Christian presence isnt a good argument or a more logical teaching, it's the amount of people teaching it to kids.

No trust me, the love was there- as long as I was a Christian the love was there. The message was 'God loves you no matter what, and you'll always be forgiven if you trust in him'. You see that's a very clever thing to say, because you are basically saying "You have a choice, but if your choice isn't mine you`ll burn in hell and suffer.. you're wrong". It makes it seem as though one is caring. Quite frankly, if your God wants me to suffer for not believing in him then I'm glad I'm not part of his sick egotistical plan. If God were loving he'd love all, not only those who grovel to him. I'd rather burn in hell than feed his ego if that's the case. As the quote goes- "Is God able but not willing, or is he willing but not able, in which case why call him God". Does one buy a dog and then tell that dog you`ll love it and claim for it to be your most precious being, as long as it obeys you. But the day starts pissing on your rug you let it starve to death while watching it suffer, not willing to help your so-called 'dear' friend. Quite frankly it all boils down to that for me- If your God loves me enough he`ll do something to prove his existence and not hide behind cheap tricks which others claim are his miracles. Unless of course God likes people being tricked by all this reality stuff, and he does nothing to stop it because his pride is worth more than the souls of billions of mortals. Yes, he claims he gave free will, but surely taking it back would be better than watching billions of his loved children suffer. As far as sin goes, I'm quite fond of sinning thank you. And I don't need to be religious to know I'm a good person. I don't even drink or smoke because of the way those industries negatively effect children and families. There are bigger worries in society than whether or not you follow the bible. And the bible is not the source of moral behaviour, we as humans rely on other humans to survive- morals are simply basic animal logic that would improve our chances of remaining successful in a group. If human a kills human b in an anarchic society, human b's relatives kill human a. etc It makes my heart sad to see there are people out there still who believe in a God that clearly doesn't exist or clearly isn't worth the praise. But back to the main topic, sure- believe in your fairy tale. But don't try make other people believe it with biblical stories of hell. Or at least wait until the children aren't kids anymore before you begin the brainwashing.

Just one post on the original topic and why there should be freedom from religion. I grew up in South Africa, which has a heavily Christian presence, the parts where I live could I suppose be likened to the bible belt of the US. I grew up in a Christian home, I was forced to attend church from birth until I was 15. Now this is where religion is so disgusting, you see a young child is extremely gullible and will through human nature trust what is told to them by their parents, the parents are the ones who tell them what is dangerous and what isn't. And I, like many other unlucky children were brought up with the idea that if I did not follow God, I would burn for eternity in the pits of a fire filled hell. Now drilling that into a child's head every weekend and every other day will have an impact on them, no matter how illogical it is- they will truly believe it. I was a firm believer, and like majority of kids it was out of fear- religion is just that, a fear based movement. Sure later on in life you start seeing people at church, you become friends and you become part of something, you feel loved and you decide it was Jesus who allowed this (this is no different than a cult). Again it is human nature to want to be accepted and loved by peers, so now you have a happy bunch of people who all choose to believe what they do because it makes them happy. You know why religion is so big? Because during the initial stages of said religions it was met with violence and force. Let's take Christianity for example- The Christian faith was extremely small until the Roman Empire decided it would be fit to rape and kill those in invaded cities unless they claimed they were Christian- and through this method the Christian faith gained thousands of followers (out of fear)... And they were then forced to teach their children the 'faith', now this went on for ages, taking different forms... Just a few hundred years ago it was the same thing with the witch hunts- people were forced into Christianity through fear. Dictatorship has been the driving force of Christianity for thousands of years. The same thing today except now, instead of beheadings and lynchings, you are socially neglected in many parts. That's how it is here, if a Christian hears you are an Atheist, you are the enemy and a bad person. As I stated though, dictatorship and fear caused the spread of Christianity (most religions). And the idea of passing it on to Children with stories of gruesome details of post-death happenings is nothing less than sick. If your idea is to raise a mindless drone of a human being who has been shell shocked into believing something, sure go ahead. This is what happened to me, I grew up in a family where only my 1 grandfather was not religious, and the rest of the family would try their best to make sure he never told me anything that contradicted the Christian faith, because God forbid I make up my own mind based on facts. It's all about only providing the facts that support religion, oh I`m sorry did I say facts and religion in 1 sentence- I mean bullshit. Finally when I was old enough I was lucky to question my faith PROPERLY. And it was the best day of my life (3 months), everything that seemed so true and believable suddenly became insane. Like that Christian song "I once was blind, but now I see"- I fucking saw! I saw that my entire family was brainwashed through decades of false teachings to them as children. I saw the world for what it is, and suddenly the world just became that much more beautiful. When my mother found out, I was about 17 and she went crazy, claiming I was going to burn in hell and that it's the devil in my music that's done this. I'm pretty sure most of my family still thinks I'm Christian or else they would probably never speak to me. Now back to the main topic, there is an age of consent for sex because children aren't yet ready to make a decision that big because they are easily manipulated into something they will regret- but yet it's perfectly legal to get a child involved into religion from any age, something that is actually far more dangerous than sex. Religious brainwashing in children is nothing short of disgusting and should a religious person feel his or her God is that powerful and his presence so widely felt he or she should trust that through the course of life and through lessons learned their child will decide religion for themselves. Not try hide the facts in the hopes of tricking them into yours. Let's not forget many churches stances on dinosaurs, especially 10-20 years ago. It's laughable.

Would be nice if society as a whole evolved at the same rate, I guess some will always lag behind. The same thing happens here in South Africa often, except instead of being arrested the community just stones them... They're only 300 years behind in logic.

Quite frankly put: A religious state is an oppressive state. There is no freedom when there is religion involved in politics. What they feel is right, is what you are forced to live with and abide by. I am a firm believer that the only logical governing society is that where the leaders and law-makers are not forcing their archaic ideals on everyone around them. It's only a matter of time, we HAVE to evolve past the backwards thinking of religious views. Question is when...

Do it! Though good luck at not being labelled a terrorist ;) In all honesty though, that is the problem with the work force, essentially your entire life depends on the guy at the top. Your life and livelyhood is owned by someone else. Essentially any working man that isn't the owner of a company is someone's bitch. Anarchism is actually good in theory and when practised correctly equally as effective. Though we all know how politics sound in theory and end up in practice (Communism's theory sounds great to me).

The way I see it is simple, let me start off by stating that I am not a vegetarian and am actually quite a lover of meat (The taste, not the process of production). But with that said, I think the process of eating meat or killing animals in general is far behind the evolution of current man. We're living in the past, still attached to selfish primitive actions. The way I see it, man was originally only a plant eater and then with millions of years they became hunters and brought meat into their diet (let's not forget these humans were barbarians) and now millions of years later, with technology the way it is- there is no reason for the meat to keep our vitamin intake up. I feel we have evolved past meat and onto dietary supplements. I know many people who are vegans (For those who are unaware: Vegan = No Meat, No Diary) There are no animal products in their diet whatsoever. Now these people are perfectly healthy when they combine the correct supplements. I would ask a rhetorical question concerning the value of animal life versus the effort of taking vitamins but to be honest I feel that there are probably so many backwards thinking, ignorant and arrogant asses that the result would be something along the lines "It's only an animal, stop being such a hippie" (I hate hippies). It was mentioned that man incorporated tools into their dietary habits and it's the same for supplements, they are the next tool in the evolutionary process for human diet. True that the time might not be right now, but I think it will happen as it's already becoming fairly common and makes perfect sense.