surfbum5412

1. Why would it matter if you are tracking until deployment altitude and then doing a barrel roll right before pitching? 2. If I was on a bigway RW dive, I would turn 180 track on my belly for a sec and then turn to my back to make sure the air remained clear above me. I bet you $1000 I could out track you on my back. **There is no way in hell I'm going to waveoff, deploy, and cross my fingers that there is no one above me and put his/her life and my life at risk. I do understadn though that some training would be needed for RW jumpers that haven't left their belly since '93. I can't emphasize enough that this is just not the way to do it. I have zero big way jumps, but I have been on 20 way + jumps and around many of these events. In a big way you track off in groups and the point is to stay with that group and fan out together. You must track well but the point is not to burn it away from your tracking group, you only fan out from the group at a pre-determined altitude and at that point, nobody should be above you if every did their job (and only people that can do their job are invited to these events) Congrats, you can out track everybody on your back but that does not mean that you leave and RW group and go to your back while risking losing altitude doing that. When I teach tracking, I emphasize that during a track you focus on 1. heading and 2. tracking flat. If you do those two things you are doing your job and keeping your friends safe. Oh and by the way, while you are being cool on your back, good luck seeing the person under canopy that you might be tracking towards. Just don't do this. Ok, that makes sense about the groups leaving and then separating from those groups. So, really no one should be above you anyways. And a back track or barrel roll isn't needed. One of the reasons bigway freefly jumps backtrack is so initially, people don't go from their head to their belly and endanger anyone above. But when tracking out, people continue on their backs. Why are things different between freeflyers and RW in that regard?

1. Why would it matter if you are tracking until deployment altitude and then doing a barrel roll right before pitching? 2. If I was on a bigway RW dive, I would turn 180, track on my belly for a few seconds and then turn to my back and continue tracking to make sure the air remained clear above me. I bet you $1000 I keep up with you or out track you on my back. **There is no way in hell I'm going to waveoff, deploy, and cross my fingers that there is no one above me and put his/her life and my life at risk. I do understadn though that some training would be needed for RW jumpers that haven't left their belly since '93.

Why?

...which is why I generally avoid jumps where the freefly-only guys insist that people barrel-roll before they dump (or intend to do it themselves). I won't do it, and I don't want other people on my jump doing it anywhere near me. Why?

A tip that Mirage gives to pack risers cleanly: lay the risers side-by-sde instead of one-behind-the- other. Laying the risers-one-behind-the-other will cause a bulge on the side of the container. **don't get rid of them...you'll want them sooner than you think :-)

I am sure seasoned big way skydivers will step in quickly but I will advise that anything other than tracking away on your belly from a skydive, especially a big way, is never advised. You track for your life on a big way, period, and rolling on your back or any other shenanigans can kill you and others. If you told me you were going to roll on your back even in a 4/8 way, I would think that would show poor judgment. For what ever reason belly peeps don't leave their belly's fair enough. On freefly jumps, its expected. At least a barrel roll then would have saved your friend.

QuoteLupe Gonzales did everything right on a bigway and had a cameraman hit him from above during deployment. He lost his leg; the cameraman died. Quote Not sure what the other circumstances were surrounding the other fatalities where someone hit them from above. In regards to this one...it's called back tracking or at the least a barrel roll before deployment. That would be doing everything right. What is keeping belly RW peeps from doing the same on bigways?

I didn't like it when I demo'd it for a day. Side walls flap down when trying to put the d-bag in, reserve flap came open a couple times, and leg straps loosened up on me after opening (*&#$*# scary s$it). Your experience is not indicative of the Icon container system. I have an Icon and an Infinity both made for me and I have never had the reserve flap open or the leg straps come loose on either. In fact I can't see how the reserve flap could come open unless you bumped up against something or didn't have is properly closed to begin with. The flap systems for the main and the reserve are very positive and are excellent for free flying. Packing the main is a little different than other rigs but there's nothing that should be flapping down. Maybe you were demoing an older Aerodyne rig? Yeah, could have been a little abused because it came off the square one rent for the day shelf. I can say that the leg strap slipping issue had been noted previously by other jumpers in regards to other ICON's and not just this one. All in all, its a cheaper rig in quality compared to other rigs I have jumped (javelin/mirage). Although the reserve flap issue, which your right, was probably just that rig, the quality of material was why the side walls of the main compartment were flopping down.

Everyone that I've jumped with will insist a break-off at 4500'. 1.If you want a fully inflated canopy at 3000', I would say 5000' would be the correct break-off. 2. I just track for my life while watching others until my dytter goes off at 3500'. 3. Flare after a track is only a preference. I don't flare, I just get into a boxman and pull. I was taught in AFF: Downwind= 1000' Crosswind= 500' Final= 250'

Which is why I would not buy one. It's such a trendy thing right now, it's almost comical. I don't get it. It's a high quality, great looking suit. The company has fantastic service. Lots of people like these traits in a suit/company so they buy the suit (trendy). Because of all these good traits, you *don't* want one? +1 here!!! I don't get it either... there is a reason WHY all these people want the suit. Let me tell you, I ordered a suit from another company earlier this winter because it was going to save me a little money in comparison to the LS suit, and maybe a little part of me got on the "I don't want to be trendy" wagon. BUT, guess what, I got what I paid for, and after the first suit and a remake of the suit didn't fit, I sent it back for good and ordered a LS suit. I flew it for the first time the other day, and it is the MOST COMFORTABLE thing ever. Bottom line is... if you don't see a lot of one suit around, sure, it may be cooler since it's not as 'trendy,' but there's probably a reason why a lot of people aren't flying them. Personally, I'm not going to spend 600 bucks for a suit only because everybody else has it or its cool.... that thing better fly well, be comfortable, and worth every penny. (and my LS suit is!

What about this one? :) I like it. That rig would look badass with an all black jumpsuit, and that camo within stripes going down the arm and leg. Nice man. Here's mine...

Yeah, I was going to go there, but decided not to; you''re totally right. If the primary objective of skydiving is to avoid death, and you do EVERYTHING right to fulfill that objective, then you will avoid death. I'm content with agreeing that if you do everything right that one is able to realistically to control, you minimize your risk to a negligible value.

Yeah, but that was 2007. This is 2009. And your point? Or are you just chiming in to chime in?

None. Dude, are still on here? Go away. Every time you open your mouth, you pull the most random far-stretched BS out of the air that is completely irrelevant.

Great advice. Is this directed at me?

I didn't like it when I demo'd it for a day. Side walls flap down when trying to put the d-bag in, reserve flap came open a couple times, and leg straps loosened up on me after opening (*&#$*# scary s$it).

Agree. I think my problem with statements like "you can do everything right and still die" comes off as giving more weight to negligible variables. In my opinion, If you are really doing EVERYTHING right, then the chances of death would be negligible. Unfortunately, humans are not perfect and don't always do everything right Example: Landing in a busy LZ, when landing 50 yards to the side would likely minimize the risk of a canopy collision to a insignificant value.

With all that you have minimized some of the risks. Some of them have been minimized to the point of negligibility. But none of them have been eliminated completely, simply because they are inherent risks of skydiving. But they've been minimized way down. And if you look at trends in fatalities reports, you can minimize more of them. No matter what, you will die. Chances are, it won't be from skydiving. But the more you actively remember and manage your risks, rather than figuring that you've eliminated them, the better off you are. Wendy P. I completely agree with you; well put. Yes, everyone will die and there are no certainties. With skydiving, risks can be minimized to insignificance. Example: if you have a correctly routed chest strap, what are the chances that it will come undone and you will fall out of your harness? The percentage is insignificant.

Which is why I would not buy one. It's such a trendy thing right now, it's almost comical. I don't get it. It's a high quality, great looking suit. The company has fantastic service. Lots of people like these traits in a suit/company so they buy the suit (trendy). Because of all these good traits, you *don't* want one? And there are many other manufacturers that exhibit those same qualities. The marketing campaign of LiquidSky, in my opinion, has increased ten-fold. Along with the result of an over-whelming amount of customers switching to LiquidSky, literally overnight, tells me that people are buying more for the "coolness" factor; which isn't a new concept in sports marketing, and I believe everyone can agree. In my opinion (I don't have quanitative evidence to back up my statement) LiquidSky has gotten pretty big -- pretty fast. History shows that customers don't like this. Look at Myspace, got too big too fast and people began to realize how "trendy" it was and now it is a sinking ship. I think my approach is more rational than an impulsive consumer buying up the coolest thing. Does the sticker price of a new LiquidSky suit justify the purchase? All of the attributes listed I have experienced with all other suit makers. My buddy just spent $700 on a new LiquidSky FF suit...ridiculous.

thanks for that info about the cortisone and draining. I had read somewhere about the cortisone weakening the ligaments. And to me, it's seems like a bad thing to do because then wouldn't you just be masking the problem with the cortisone? Go out and jump, and the wham! Torn meniscus! :-) I am icing it 4x a day. An ace wrap is on it all day. Also, anytime I'm home I'm keeping it elevated. I take 2 ibuprofen's 3x/day. I work as a med device rep, so I am walking throughout the hospitals. I noticed that the walking gets it inflamed, so I try to minimize that. Also, 2 weeks ago I started PT. MRI was done about a month after the injury. Everything was "unremarkable."

I owned an odyssey and thought they are a little longer than other containers, but fair enough.

Which is why I would not buy one. It's such a trendy thing right now, it's almost comical.

why the good health clause? That's another example of items beyond your control. The guy that died in 2007 from a stroke - you can't tell when those are coming. And marathoners die of heart attacks. You are starting to stretch. Because I'm 27; I'm not in the age range where health issues are a concern, plus I eat right and exercise. Also, don't compare apples-to-oranges by comparing a strenuous activity like running 26 miles, to skydiving. If I look through 2007, I see that I don't fly a wingsuit, I don't do CRW, I don't swoop, I have an AAD and an RSL, I'm in great health...

I had the experience of going through Perris for AFF, but thats when Travis was still an AFF instructor, and this doesn't apply to him. Not one instructor remembered me after AFF at the Perris school. Nothing against them personally because it's the operation and volume that results in a school lacking personal attention...oh yeah, and Stewart, the school operator, is a douche bag. On two occasions that guy proved to me that he had his own agenda and wasn't concerned about the customer. Jim Wallace runs a tight ship and he is a solid guy. I would say try him out or Elsinore. Both are solid.

You don't have to like it, but - at this point in your skydiving career, if you don't believe it, you're not being honest with yourself. The obvious examples are collisions, so I don't know why you're intentionally ignoring these. Don't forget there's also a pretty extensive list of people who've died after malfunctions, even when they did everything right. We teach people a simple set of emergency procedures for two reasons. 1) They're the best we've got. 2) They work most of the time. But, "most of the time" is not "every time". Sometimes they don't work. Sometimes you perform exactly as trained, do the best you can, and it just gets worse. I used to know some people who thought this. They are dead. _Am Haha, oh this is too good. So wait, from what you have gathered from this statement "If I die from skydiving, I will be pissed because I could have avoided it. If I do EVERYTHING right, I will not die." You believe I'm ignorant and reckless? Before you took that sentence out of context in the paragraph, you could read that I was taking full responsibility for my actions. There are no guarantees in life. You could be driving down the street and someone could hit you or your brakes could fail. 1. Look through the fatality list, lets say in in 2007. In 2007, find me a person, in good health, that died after doing everything right...