trigger

No UK pounds sterling. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

You're certainly right on about the cost. http://www.solarutilities.co.uk/solar/shop.html http://the-green-company.com/_wsn/page10.html .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

I'm glad to hear that,well it's 02.35 am here so i'm off to bed'appreciate that i can't change the world but sincerely take care guys. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

i'd love to give up my car but even i need to eat.. But i do try to the best of my ability to drive the damn thing in a controlled and responsible manner. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

Really....... .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

If you read the incidents forum people talk about prevention and i appreciate that you cant prevent it all,but just peventing some would be an improvement. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

I'm admitting that it's nigh on impossible to prevent firearms from falling into determined criminal hands and that the pre 1997 UK requirements obviously had there failings and could have gone alot further. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

How's that working at keeping the crims from getting hold of them for ya? Evidently not all THAT well. *** I fully appreciated thats it's nigh on immpossible to stop a hardened criminal element from aquiring a gun. But it is possible imo to make it alot harder. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

Yep..believe it or not i do see everyone who's posting heres points and i'm not in total disagrement,but imo less guns/stronger vetting=less oppertunatey for guns falling into the wrong hands. The recent high school masacre in the US to me illustrates the failure of the US vetting system with regards to gun ownership. I know the pre 1997 UK requirements were a ball ache and probably deterred alot of normal people from pursuing sport shooting. However,the system didn't prevent Hungerford nor Dunblane,but is it probable a similiar system could have prevented that hate filled Korean from forfilling his sick fantasy. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

Perhaps background checks are failing in somecases in the UK and i'm talking pre 1997 you had to become a member of a gun club in the first instance for a probationary period in the first instance,then you required reputable references,judge,laywer,doctor etc and finally you had to show to a firearms officer that you had taken appropriate security measures to your home before you could be granted a firearms license. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

No i strongly disagree with you on that point..an idiot is exactly that imo and i in no way meant or imo implied that all gun owners are idiots. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

Maybe a stronger vetting system would be a start as i understand proof of residency/drivers license is all that is required in some states. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

Never said you were an idiot nor did i say your father was an idiot,but there are idiots and if you or i could prevent a death from happening due to an 'idiot' wouldn't that be a good thing. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

Should have refrased that it's not the guns but the deadly potential of a person with a gun that scares me. I appreciate that you're all more than likely sane,rational responsible gun owners unfortunately not every gun owner is,especially the criminal/insane types. Again,prevention of criminal insane types getting access to dangerous shit. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

You live and learn,ive not been burgled a third time. Car related deaths exceed that of gun related deaths because unfortunately it's a crime of the times that we all need cars,even idiots need cars,fortunately we dont all need guns,unfortunately some idiots feel they do. And my stance still remains a society we no guns is a safer society for everyone,just like a society without cars would be,but you can't have everything. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

Can't find anything to suggest they were carried out with guns could you post a link. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

It already happens,responsible swoopers prefer to land alone. I've heard that some Eloy regulars are now landing out. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

Make sure you don't own any jewelry, electronics, currency or anything else that those "fuckers" could nick. It sounds like you're so resigned to having the criminals rule the roost there that you simply have to be glad you didn't have something dangerous for them to acquire when they burglarized you. That's really sad. What a yoke to live under. *** Yep they nicked pretty much all of the above,but i did have one thing they couldn't steal,insurance .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

Your right cars are nasty if driven irresponsibly as for skydiving you're petty much in charge of your own destiny provided you dont jump with idiots. But as you said cars are just as dangerous as guns if not more so when the 'idiots' are behind them. Maybe we could discuss how to prevent idiots getting hold of dangerous shit any suggestions. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

Most burglaries happen when the occupents of the household are away,hence more like 'cold'burglaries i should know i've been burgled twice good job i dont own any guns the fuckers would have nicked those as well. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

I know you're talking sense in respect to the concealed carry point with regards to the us 2nd ammendment. But my point is that when you go to extremes 'guns' there will be a criminal element that may,given a situation like counter those extremes. I know the uk example is different and far removed from the us situation as in the UK even pre 1997 gun laws we've never been permitted to carry or have loaded/ready weapons in our households. And to be quite frank guns scare me and i think it's sad that so many of the us population feel the need to own such potentially nasty shit. Maybe it would be fairer to discuss ways of preventing US criminals/mad people from having access to guns this may aliviate some of the percieved need to own a gun other than for sporting purposes in the first place. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

YEP...thats exactly what you have...criminals taking things to the extreme resulting in loss of life on both sides of the coin. Hope sleep with that thing under your pillow..hope its big enough and more importantly i sincerely hope your hard enough should shit ever come a crawling. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

Like i said in a previous post the UK gun problem seems to be predominately drug/gang related and i think you'll find it hard to come across a case in the uk where firearms have been used in a household burglary for example,fortunately or not guns appear to be the preserve of the stupid 17yr old wanna be innercity gangsters and serious 'brinks matt'big risk,big reward type criminals. If someone is so much as suspected of being in possession of an illegally held firearm in general the're going to find themselves in shit creek when so19 come a knocking.. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

Don't get me wrong i'm all for sadistically torturing criminals to death wherever they may be. Does the tragic Palm beach article happen to mention wether or not the household held a firearm or not. Dosn't really matter tho because i dont care who you are there's not alot anyone could have done vs the power of 12. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

I can understand your point,but how common is the scenario you describe. I'm of the opinion that most crime is about money as dirty as that. And in a society that arms itself with a gun you can only expect the worse from the criminals that infest that society as i said its kill or be killed where guns are involved. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.