fred

If the DZO is more concerned about his own liability than my life, I'd think about heading to a different dropzone. I agree, however, that the student shouldn't have relied on the radio to tell her to cutaway. It's the student's decision, and hopefully ground prep would have prepared her for that possibility.

If frontflips and backflips are "vertical", then barrel rolls are horizontal. Basically like rolling out of bed. You need to be able to do frontflips, backflips, and barrel rolls within something like 30° of heading in order to get your USPA A license. You don't have to do them in most student programs.

How were the openings?

I like this game. I'll play with my best response, and I'd appreciate people being kind if I make dumb answers. Kudos on correct answers are always appreciated, but I'm still a lowbie, and I know that I have a lot to learn. [*]A steering line broke at 200 ft? I'd use gentle rear riser to avoid any obstacles. Since I'm pretty familiar with the rear riser stall-point, I'd do a half-hearted flair to leave me a great margin of error. I'd definately PLF. [*]Your altimeter was hit and knocked off on exit? This depends on how many were on my load and who was out after me. First, I'd be very uncomfortable; I rely on my altimeter. As a lowbie on a cessna dropzone, I'm almost always last out, or with everybody else on the plane. I'd probably stay in freefall for awhile (20 seconds maybe?) and still open very high. If I was jumping with others, I'd try and let them know that something was wrong before I took off tracking away from them. I'd probably have to rethink things if people were jumping after me, and I might consider waiting for the first of: (A) I feel like I'm low, or (B) My first alarm on my audible goes off. [*]You lose sight of the formation in a cloud and you are at break off altitude? Turn 180° and pull. Some have suggested that you're supposed to spiral down through the clouds, but I'm not all that comfortable with that plan. [*]You experience a hard opening, dislocating a shoulder, rendering one arm useless? There aren't many options here. Make sure that the main canopy is okay, and try and land the parachute. Do I release my brakes? I don't think that I would at this point, since I've never tried flaring with one hand. I'd do my best to plan an approach with the good arm, and be ready to PLF. [*]After opening you look up and your main was packed w/ a step-through? Clearly, I have a lot to learn. I don't know what a 'step-through' is. [*]In free-fall, your shirt flys up, covering your cut away and reserve handles? I think I'd be able to tuck it back in, actually. Assuming plenty of altitude. Otherwise, I'd open at the planned opening altitude, maybe just slightly higher if I could. [*]Your helmet comes un-latched in free-fall? I wouldn't worry, actually. I'd probably try to fix it, but my helmet fits tightly to my head anyhow, so I doubt that it would actually come off except in the case of a hard opening. [*]Your full face helmet visor fogs up in free-fall, or under canopy? I've never worn a full-face. Under canopy, it seems like you'd just open the visor. I don't know what to do in freefall. [*]You look across a formation and notice that someone’s main pin has come out of the closing loop? Wave off to signal that something is wrong. Try to give that someone the pull signal. [*]After all of the floaters have climbed out (Twin Otter/King Air jump ship), you are sitting up near the pilot, and the pilot yells for an abort/go-around for traffic? I have no idea. Best idea is to either make everybody "go now" or climb back in, but I'm not sure how to make either happen. [*]In free-fall w/ other jumpers you look down and see an open canopy directly underneath the group/formation? How close is "directly under"? Wave off if time, and turn and track. If there's less time, I'd get out of the way myself. If there's not even time for that, I'd brace myself for impact. [*]In light and variable winds, you watch four other jumpers land before you in four different directions? Check windsock, plot an approach that doesn't cut anybody off that may be above me. [*]You accidentally land in water, too deep to reach the bottom, 200 feet from the nearest shore? Isn't this one of the basics of water training? I haven't had that, but I think I'm supposed to loosen my chest strap and leg straps if possible, disconnect my rsl, land with a plf, and cutaway... My rig should serve as a life preserver for a little while, at least. [*]You land in a tree, suspended 20 feet from the ground? Correct answer: Wait for assistance. What I'd actually do: Try and get down safely. This is a very different scenario than if I found myself suspended from power lines, when I'd definately wait for assistance and not let anybody but the fire department/power company try and help me. [*]Your reserve pilot chute launches just after your main opens? Try and contain the reserve. If it opens, see how it's flying... Downplane means cutaway. Biplane and side-by-side mean that I fly the dominant parachute with rear risers. PLF. One more I'd add, since we were talking about this (hypothetically) at dinner the other night: You're on a four way and turning points. You look at your altimeter and see 1200ft.

Did anybody else notice the message on the Novembre-Decembre one? "Mike leave me alone" How bizarre.

Ooh... Way to much bold and caps... Anyhow... First, yes, you should stick with your current student program. What dz are you at? When you graduate, you should check out our friendly little dz. Great Lakes Skydivers is in Gobles, MI... about 10 minutes west of Kalamazoo. Great little DZ.

I did a similar progression... I did 15 jumps on SL and switched to AFF at another DZ (where I still had to repeat a level). Frankly, I'm glad I did it the way I did. I did enough SL to get pretty comfortable with the planes and had a lot of canopy control teaching, but then when I needed to learn freefall skills, AFF was the poo. So I think I recommend both. Frankly, it seems like a good idea to do a tandem before your first SL jump, as well. (And definately before AFF)

I definately think the "say it aloud" strategy is important. In my AFF, during COA, I was told to read the alti, then shout it to my AFFI. I strongly doubt that he had any clue what I was saying, but it didn't matter. In order to shout it, I actually had to read it. The other thing that I think was helpful was "locking on" to the altimeter when I reached a certain point. In Eloy, I was pulling at 5500, and was instructed that if I looked at the alti and it read between 6 and 6.5, that I was to stare at it to 5500, wave off, and pull. One jump, I locked on at about 6900, and watched it fall, when I suddenly realized not only how much time I had to do the maneuvres, but also how little time I'd have if I'd been pulling lower. In summary, I think pushed me in the right direction for altitude awareness.

Days are long. You can make your level 2 that same day if you want. I've even heard of people doing 4 jumps on their first day of static line progression.

First, after your fourth tandem you don't "have" to do AFF, you get to. You can always do another tandem if you feel or your instructor feels that you need to. You will not end up headdown by accident. However, it is possible that you will end up on your back, or in spins, or generally unstable. That's why your instructors are there: to keep you stable, and to help you correct whatever's causing your problems. Relax, don't worry so much, and have fun!

First, the best answer is to ask your instructor. Second, I'm not all that experienced, so take my advice with a grain of salt. Disclaimers out of the way, I started on a static line program and ended up transitioning to AFF. Did the extra SL jumps prepare me better for the altitude? Frankly, I don't think so. What helped me overcome my fear was the instructor who spent his time on my second AFF jump reminding me to take deep breaths and giving me the 'relax' signal before we even left the plane. Once I realized I could relax, things went a lot smoother. Perhaps you could think of AFF as being like a tandem except with your instructor at your side instead of strapped to you? There's nothing wrong with doing a SL progression, and if you feel it is a better fit for your learning style and comfort level, and your dz offers it, then you can feel free to switch. I imagine, though, that after 2 more tandems, you're going to be a lot more comfortable with that plane. And, for your AFF jump, you'll have a lot more to think about. Re: the earplugs. I know a few experienced jumpers who wear them, so they're not out of the question. But there could be concerns about hearing the radio, audible, or your instructor while on the plane. It doesn't hurt to ask, though.

And, if possible, bring extra money for a second jump on the same day.

No, not another thread about whether or not a cypress is a good idea. That debate's got whiskers. The question I have is: Why is the Cypress AAD the most popular? It seems to dominate the experienced jumpers scene, and is almost synonymous with AAD. But the student rigs at my DZ have FXC's. Just trying to figure out if it's a 'follow the flock' thing or if a cypress is a far superior product? So, what are the differences between the various AAD's? What made you choose yours? Why do most people seem to choose Cypress?

I don't buy that the dz is drug free. It sounds like it's pretty close, but every day people do them, and many of those people think that they're under control, and a few of those people get on airplanes and jump out of them. The claim that a dropzone is drugfree doesn't seem any more plausible than a claim that high school is drug free. I'd bet, though I cannot prove, that since it's a decent sized dropzone, there are people there who do drugs and get on loads. I'd also bet that they tend to jump together, but that much isn't always certain. On the other hand, I see no reason why skydivers wouldn't/shouldn't rat out their own. If you know and don't approve, rat 'em out. It's dangerous to themselves and (more importantly, imo) others. I'd object to somebody who rats out someone for smoking pot on their day off, but as soon as they are stoned and trying to get on a plane with me, they need to be turned in. Perhaps I'm a rat, but I can deal with somebody getting stoned on their own time, but don't let it affect me. As far as the original topic? I think it was clearly biased against Roger. I think linking his previous fuck-ups to the deaths of current skydivers who made their own mistakes was misleading, and the reporter was bringing up irrelevant information; Futher, the reporter was presenting the information in such a way that a causal link was implied. Roger's past was brought up to make the story more interesting, even though it had absolutely no relevance to the actual incident.

Sorry, haven't been religiously reading lately, so I have to catch up... I'll respond to quotes in turn. It definately gets comments on how baggy it is, but I'm certainly planning on getting a good, custom RW suit. It may slow me down more, and I definately don't want to do much RW in this suit. Others' points about the disadvantage of a FF suit for FS is pretty clear. I have jumptrack, and the averages are right. The graphs do seem to show a pretty inconsistent fall rate, but I expect that's normal for somebody of my experience. I can post some of the graphs if people would like (and a good method of exporting the graphs with jumptrack would be helpful, as well). (Also, to answer your other question, I'm reporting TAS, which is slightly higher than SAS). I've spent a couple jumps now working on dearching/falling slow. I don't like the monotony of it, or the feeling of not being in a "good stable arch", so I mix it up some, but I do realize that the more I work on it, the less difficult or unnatural it's going to seem. (Not to mention, slowing my fall rate seems to make the openings nicer, but that could be my imagination) I did a jump today where I worked on fall rate with all the advice I've received, and I actually averaged 122, which makes me feel like I'm learning something. Of course, I found myself chipping toward the end, went into my normal relaxed arch, and took off back to my top speed of 136. But I had some moments of clarity where I realized how flat or even inverted I could go and still have some semblance of control. Then again, jump before that I reached a top speed of 144, so I could still keep up with sit flyers.

Don't forget to check www.skydivingmovies.com. It's an excellent repository of skydiving videos. www.headdown.net has some good freefly and base vids, as well.

I'm still a lowbie, so maybe this should be in the training forum, but since I'm belly flying, I thought I'd post it here. I'm wondering how fast is fast for RW. Backstory: Soon after I graduated, I did a coached jump with an instructor who should fall pretty fast. We had planned to do some docking practice. We'd exit, attempt to match fall rates, and then he'd back up, and I'd move forward and dock. What I found was that after exit I was much lower then him. I did my best dearch (first time trying to slow myself down), and we managed to fall at the same level, but I was feeling awful unstable and not near what I was used to falling at. We docked once, and that was mostly him, he backed up, and I attempted to move forward. As soon as I started forward motion, I could tell I was dropping. I dearched, and ... well, I think that killed my forward motion. I was chasing him around the sky, and finally thought, "Relax, get comfortable, and try again." As I thought this, I went into my normal arch, and suddenly he was way above me. I just shot down from him when I was flying "normal". (This was in a rental RW jumpsuit). ... So, time goes by, and I get a really baggy freefly suit. It's Kris's old purple and green one, for those who know it. Suffice it to say, it's really, really baggy. I also got a protrack, so I did two jumps. The first, I just fell normal, and the second I tried to dearch and fall as slowly as possible. (Solo jumps) On the first jump, according to my protrack, I averaged 132MPH (TAS). Top speed of 141MPH. This is on my belly, with few maneuvres (just a couple turns and such). On the jump where I was dearching to the best of my ability (n.b. I haven't done this much, so I can probably improve), the protrack clocked me at an average of 128MPH, Max 134. This seems really fast to me, especially for being in such a big jumpsuit. The thing is, when I'm slowing down as much as I can, I feel like I have almost no control. Clearly, I would like to get on some loads where I don't have to worry so much about fall rate, and can just relax and practice/learn other stuff. Is this really fast? Or is this just good base material? For what it's worth, I'm 5'11", and between 210-215 without gear. I inquired with Tony Suits about getting an RW suit, and their first question was, "Have you talked to your instructor about your fall rate?" And I have briefly, but I'd like to get your comments as well.

If it helps to hear that you're not alone in failing, I was on a static line program. I failed my first two 10-second delays (Goal: fall stable, pull). I failed my first 4 (!) 15-second delays (goal: Fall stable, maintain a heading). I then switched to AFF (Actually, something similar to your AFP program). Started with a Lvl 3 jump (Goal: Fall stable, maintain a heading). Instructor said, "Your exit was beautiful. I was about to let you go, and then you tensed up and lost control." I failed that one, too. Everybody hits snags. I was fortunate that I managed to pass the rest of the program without much problem, but if I can graduate, so can you. Just remember to have fun. Forget the pressure to pass and get your A, and just jump because you can, and have fun doing it. It's amazing how much impact the "remember to have fun" part has on performance.

Be thankful you're in AFP. Some of us were expected to learn turns with 15 seconds at a time. ;)

Don't PD Reserves have a built-in expiration? That is, don't they need to be retired after x repacks or deployments, even if they're in excellent shape? This was my rigger's complaint about them. Said they make nice BASE rigs afterward, though.

I've been following dz.com for nearly a year now, and I've got a decent grasp of people's opinions on the various main canopies that are available. But while fantasy shopping for gear today, I realize that I know nothing about the various reserves that are available. So, what kind of reserve do you bring along for the ride, and why/how did you choose it? Did you ever test jump your reserve, or did you wait for an actual emergency before you flew it?

I'm just a newbie with fewer jumps than you (39), but it sounds like you really need to start practicing your PLF's. Landing on your butt is dangerous, and you can really injure your back that way. Knees together and roll... As far as flaring, I'm probably not anybody to listen to, but what I've started doing is flaring a little higher than I think I need to, and starting the flare slowly. I'm starting to get it dialed in a lot better, and am learning the feel for the affect of the flare.

I just had my first line twists since I completed AFF. And while I'd like to blame rubber bands and pilot chutes and anything else, I know exactly what it was. I've been wondering about how 'on-heading' my openings are, so at 5500 I stopped doing my flips and stuff that I'd decided to practice on that jump, and spun around looking for the dropzone. Turned probably 270° and found it, checked my alti, and it was close enough so I pulled (a little more altitude as last out would let me play with the canopy more). I'd bet (I'm still a low-timer, 39 jumps, most of those short delays), that I hadn't quite stopped turning when I pulled. I'm not saying that this relates at all to your experience, but I think the idea that it's body position/momentum shouldn't be overlooked.

I'm jumping a "transition rig" at my dropzone... basically rental gear that's BOC throw-out and smaller than the stuff they put students out on, and the riser covers are weak. They tend to pop open when I'm doing a gear check on the rig, and while I tuck them in as tight as I can, they have a tendency to pop open in freefall. This is uncomfortable, because when I turn my head left to look at my altimeter I tend to get slapped by them, but is it dangerous. (obviously, I check my alti anyway, and a flapping/whipping riser cover isn't going to deter that) Can open riser covers cause any problems? I'm mainly doing belly flying/rw at this point, but I'm considering attempting a sit-fly when I'm ready. The rigger doesn't seem to know what to do about it, so anybody out there have neat tricks to solve this problem?

This is what I've learned as well. If it is an emergency exit, even if it's at 9k ft or on jumprun, you are expected to leave the aircraft quickly and do a clear-and-pull... This gives the airplane lots of space to maneuvre, and takes care of most seperation issues. Is this not standard practice?